Help! Keeping it slow....

[adouglas]

For the life of me I can't figure out a way to make this band performance question EBMM-specific, but I need to ask those who know and that's you guys.

So please PM or email your replies rather than post them here. Mods, please lock/delete the thread if necessary.

Here's the question:

My band consistently plays EVERYTHING too fast during gigs. Anywhere from 5 to 10 beats per minute. Adrenaline, etc., I guess. We never notice it at the time, but it's obvious on recordings.

Does anyone with stage experience have any tips on keeping it slowed down? The drummer doesn't want to use a metronome on stage.

Feel free to email adouglas (at) optonline (dot) net

Thanks....

 

[bbernard]

Are the tunes too fast from the start (counted off too fast) or do they start off OK and then speed up?

 

[adouglas]

My impression is that they're too fast to begin with.

Please PM or email... this thread is technically illegal.

 

[bovinehost]

Please PM or email... this thread is technically illegal.

I'm not a lawyer but I think it's okay, man.

 

[adouglas]

Thanks, Jack.

Now, let me root around and see if I can find some pics of my old C*rvin with the worn gold hardware to post.......

 

[syciprider]

I think the skin pounder just has to get used to a metronome.

 

[DTG]

E retime I listen back to a gig I think holy cow we are way too fast on every song. But it's hard when your in a party band and trying to keep everyone dancing. There is no time to set a metronome between songs. Your drummer Need to think about the tempo of the next song about 4 bars from the end of the song he is playing. It's easier said than done ! Most of the people there will never notice, it will just be you that does. But if the dance floor is full then your doing your job. From the pics you have posted it looks like a good fun party band and if I was going to see a band like that I would expect the band to be pushing the songs a bit.
I bet if you are playing in a bar somewhere that is not a dancing type of venue the tempo is prob bang on.

 

[T-bone]

With the zydeco band speed is rarely an issue. With the all original music band, however, speed is a huge issue. Fast or slow, timing can change the dynamic of a song.

Our drummer uses a programmable metronome. Before he starts each song, he plugs it in and gets the beat. No one in the audience knows, and no one hears as he uses the pulsating light. And he only uses it to get the beat. Not during the song.

It sounds like your drummer doesn't want to do this, but it's the only way we were able to solve it. I'm looking forward to reading how others deal with this.

tbone

 

[stomaraka]

I think it's actualy impossible to nail the tempo of every song live. Every drummer, and i've played with a lot of them, speeds up to begin with and progresses during the song. But the bass players can actualy slow everybody down rather than the drummer. Next time, crank yourself +10% and start "pulling back" just after the count. Works every time. In my guitar playing years i've played with a couple of bass players who mastered this. The trick is that the rest of the band, in fear of a total meltodown, will imediatly start following the one that is out of tempo/tune, etc...
Also, all drummers hate metronomes, when of course it should be the first thing they should use...Antother trick is to play with prerecorded support...like backing vocals, strings, etc...then...they have to.
So the question is legit...guitar players and keyboard players can never do this.

 

[jlepre]

Is the Drummer responsible for counting off ALL the songs? I'll assume this is the case.

I had the same problem, so I took control, and counted out each song myself.

Problem Solved!

 

[syciprider]

Also, all drummers hate metronomes, when of course it should be the first thing they should use...Antother trick is to play with prerecorded support...like backing vocals, strings, etc...then...they have to.

Yay! Karaoke for drummers!

 

[drTStingray]

I think the skin pounder just has to get used to a metronome.

+1 - but this sometimes prevents them from playing in time at all

Another approach is to start the song at the proper speed and not speed up. The band I play in has this same problem sometimes - it usually comes to a head if the guitarist can't play the phrases in his solo at the speed or worse still, the lyrics are no longer capable of being sung towards the end of the song..............this is quite possible in rock and roll genre!

Working closely with the drummer the bass player is in the best position to help to control this and vice versa - if either the drummer or the bass player start to get adrennaline and push beats it will tend to speed up. I have found the section where this usually happens is often in short lead breaks - not sure what it is but as soon as the guitar starts playing lots of notes, the track varies in speed - marginally - in a song with a lot of short breaks, by the end of say the third break it's positively flying, the singer's gone red in the face etc etc - and the next rehearsal will include an interesting discussion

I think the key is to avoid pushing the beat - unless you intend to do it.

 

[cellkirk74]

We had the same problem. It got a lot better when we started to record every practice session on tape and listened to that right after and had the drummer practice with a metronome for a recording we did.

We also had the whole band play to a metronome for some time (headphones for all).

Still, we are faster when playing live, but it got a little better.

 

[TheAntMan]

What does the rest of the band think about the tempo(s)?

I have had to pull drummers back from picking up speed during a song and it is not always easy!!! You have to kind of gut it out and make eye contact and non-verbal communications (using body motions which swings tempo with headstock works well) to convey message. Luckily I have had those drummers be musicians who put the music first and appreciated the pull back and did not want to fight about it.

I played in a band where the drummer and I set up a series of check points in certain songs so we would communicate to make sure we're good. We would even do a head count off together on some songs before she either counted out load verbally or with stick clicks. After a while she and I got to where it was always on since we were more conscience of and had established a 'feel' for those areas.

How do you practice the songs and do you practice the entire set? That can cause tempo to pickup as one song goes to the next. Maybe record your band practice and review with members. As we all know, it comes down to team work in a band.

--Ant

 

[rizzo9247]

Threaten to replace said drummer with a drum machine.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

The last show, we had the opposite problem where some songs were too slow. In that case, I started to pull the band a bit. That, and giving the guys the "it's too slow" verbal cue!

The drummer and I have rehearsed to a click (in headphones) during jams before. It's interesting to see how and where things go out and how to pull it back smoothly.

I think it's only natural to play songs faster live. This shouldn't be a problem unless the song is really tempo specific that it ruins the whole feel. And, I am not sure that the goal should be to metronomic time, just good timing that doesn't fluctuate too much that it becomes a distraction.

 

[five7]

Get a better drummer!

 

[Holdsg]

Sometimes I think our band name should be Russian Dragon. When we play without a drummer we're Dragon. When we play with the drummer, we're Russian.

 

[fly]

i'll take my licks here,being a drummer..........

lately in the cover band,i've been working with the bass player on our tempos......i too,do not like metronomes,a steady beat..(karaoke from drummers) is much more pleasing to the drummer to go with........we do the eye contact and help each other out when tempos go wild.it takes work.

just need to dial in with each other and practice.

when i play bass in our original band,we have no drummer and rarely a drum machine so....being the bass player,i gotta keep the tempo.......and listening back to all recordings,we as a band are getting our tempos figured out...

communication between the two backbones has got to happen there.......i'm just glad i do both cuz i understand both sides and can work around it.

 

[bbernard]

Spent most of my time in cover bands but did the original thing for a bit. when counting off a song there is usually some part of it that doesn't lay right if the tempo is too quick. Sometimes the chorus, sometimes a particular verse. I would think of those parts of the song when counting off and it usually got us in the neighborhhod of the correct tempo.