jagged
Well-known member
just a note... i think the theory is great... but not everyone has the patience to learn it... Dimebag said many times that he didn't know any theory...
- Thread starter lumberjack
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lumberjack
Well-known member
Thanks, Spud.
Here's a link for a video review of the Tascam MP3 trainer that Spud sent me. Very good vid. IMHO
LickLibrary.com - guitar tuition, backing tracks, TAB, mp3 downloads, transcriptions
lumberjack
Well-known member
+1. Some of the greatest guitarists in the world don't/didn't know theory, or have never taken lessons. With that being said, I did take lessons for 4 years. I wish I had of taken them longer. I wish I could read music better than I do, and wish I knew more theory. That's the great thing about musical instruments. You can always learn. And it's never too late to learn.
Learning and playing the guitar is a life-long journey, not a short road trip.
paranoid70
Well-known member
I find it really hard to learn other guys solos. Right now I am trying to learn Touch of Grey (Grateful Dead) so I can present it to the band tonight. I have got the song and the lyrics down pretty good. I tried tackling the solo, and even with notes taken off a Dead site, I am still lost. Jerry was so eclectic in his playing.
Solos have always been a hard thing for me. I never took lessons, so my theory is pretty lacking. I have been more comfortable playing leads lately, but I do tend to stick to Pentatonic and Blues scales.
Solos have always been a hard thing for me. I never took lessons, so my theory is pretty lacking. I have been more comfortable playing leads lately, but I do tend to stick to Pentatonic and Blues scales.
Tone?
Well-known member
Modes? scales??
Uh, i dont want to act like a know it all, but since this is kinda new territory for you i would advise on playing your basic pentatonics first. Yes the blues. Man aint got the blues, he aint got nothin! lol
Seriously i used to teach guitar a while back and i would tell that to all my students. Learn your basic pentatonics first. Play the blues. It will give you the basic blocks of EVERYTHING. It will give you your voice and finger control and emotion.
Zappa once said that Vai plays too white and you know what he was right. If Vai was more of a bluesy player he would have a soul as well. anyway thats another story.
It wasnt till i started playing the blues that i started to sound good. I mean really good. Before that i sounded sterile and linear.
Pentatonics arent necessarily easy either. look at Eric Johnson. He rips Pentatonics.
My advice is to start playing a 12 bar blues and slowly improvise over it. Of course look on the net or get someone to show you the basic pentatonic scales.
The slowly you can venture into modes and stuff. Most rock stuff is pentatonics anyway.
"Wax on, wax off.....Scott san"
Uh, i dont want to act like a know it all, but since this is kinda new territory for you i would advise on playing your basic pentatonics first. Yes the blues. Man aint got the blues, he aint got nothin! lol
Seriously i used to teach guitar a while back and i would tell that to all my students. Learn your basic pentatonics first. Play the blues. It will give you the basic blocks of EVERYTHING. It will give you your voice and finger control and emotion.
Zappa once said that Vai plays too white and you know what he was right. If Vai was more of a bluesy player he would have a soul as well. anyway thats another story.
It wasnt till i started playing the blues that i started to sound good. I mean really good. Before that i sounded sterile and linear.
Pentatonics arent necessarily easy either. look at Eric Johnson. He rips Pentatonics.
My advice is to start playing a 12 bar blues and slowly improvise over it. Of course look on the net or get someone to show you the basic pentatonic scales.
The slowly you can venture into modes and stuff. Most rock stuff is pentatonics anyway.
"Wax on, wax off.....Scott san"
I only play four string solos, but the same principles apply (just thicker!)
I agree with starting with pentatonics. Once you're comfortable there you can move along. Saw an awesome tutorial on Comcast with Petrucci covering soloing just recently and it was all about modes. I'm still working on all of that myself, but I'll tell you even with the early steps I am making, it makes picking up stuff by ear that much easier. You get used to hearing the intervals and can figure out the fingering faster, IMHO. It all works together.
It's all fun! (to quote tk)
I agree with starting with pentatonics. Once you're comfortable there you can move along. Saw an awesome tutorial on Comcast with Petrucci covering soloing just recently and it was all about modes. I'm still working on all of that myself, but I'll tell you even with the early steps I am making, it makes picking up stuff by ear that much easier. You get used to hearing the intervals and can figure out the fingering faster, IMHO. It all works together.
It's all fun! (to quote tk)
pauldogx
Well-known member
+1 and to expand on Candid's post----I too have a real aversion to learning other peoples stuff note for note. I've never been able to do the cover band thing very long because I just dont find playing other peoples stuff interesting. I've always been into songwriting, producing and being in original bands. Usually if someone is doing something I dig--I'll try to cop the general vibe and technique of what they are doin and then do my own thing with it. I would also urge you to jam with other musicians at any given opprtunity--you'll learn more in a few minutes with other players than you will from several hours on your own. Another thing folks have today that we didnt have back in 1980 when I started playin is DVDs. Man there is a million live DVDs out now of all kind of players----you can cop alot of stuff by watchin how they play stuff---we just had records to copy back then for the most part!!!!
candid_x
Well-known member
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Gerry was a huge influence to my playing, not so much on a note-for-note conscious scale, but on a hearing/feeling level. Mostly major diatonic scale stuff in a sort of bebop style. You're an old horn player, if I recall, so thinking "horn" might help to model Gerry's style.
Speaking on a non-technical level (only one I know), playing around an open A gets you there pretty much, and then you can move up the neck for other keys. In major keys (such as most of Gerry's stuff was), you can mix 'blues scales' together with majors, to spice it up and play a bit outside the major scale box. It works the same in reverse, playing pentatonic blues riffs, but throwing in major scale notes in the same key.
Elementary to the more learned here, no doubt, but it works for me. Opens things up quite a bit.
My advice would be that theory and scales don't necessarily need to go hand-in-hand; delving ear deep in theory on the electric guitar is not always necessary. The cool thing about learning scales on the guitar is that there are definite patterns that retain their shape all up the neck, so once you have learned all the modes, the patterns do not necessarily change from key to key. Over time, you will probably even find that you will prefer certain modes over others.
When I used to give lessons, I made my students learn at least the pentatonic and major scale. So many of the solos we play are based on these two scales. The next step was to teach them one of their favorite solos and show them how much of that particular scale pattern was part of the solo. Usually a light bulb went on and they realized the fruits of their labor. (and they didn't hate me anymore for making them learn scales!)
Hope this helps.
Matt
When I used to give lessons, I made my students learn at least the pentatonic and major scale. So many of the solos we play are based on these two scales. The next step was to teach them one of their favorite solos and show them how much of that particular scale pattern was part of the solo. Usually a light bulb went on and they realized the fruits of their labor. (and they didn't hate me anymore for making them learn scales!)
Hope this helps.
Matt
my advice is:
1. First of all learn to "hear" solos on the albums. When I've heard enough of Jimi Hendrix solos and all of that classic rock solos I just now what happens in particular solo. I hear a solo and in my head I have a fingerboard and I think "O this is probably a classic pentatonic lick here" and I start to play around that.
2. Learn beat after beat or section by section. Lick by lick. Never all at once.
3. Do it slowly - you will master it better that way
1. First of all learn to "hear" solos on the albums. When I've heard enough of Jimi Hendrix solos and all of that classic rock solos I just now what happens in particular solo. I hear a solo and in my head I have a fingerboard and I think "O this is probably a classic pentatonic lick here" and I start to play around that.
2. Learn beat after beat or section by section. Lick by lick. Never all at once.
3. Do it slowly - you will master it better that way
robelinda2
Well-known member
learn what sounds good to you, and learn it REALLY well. even great players still sit down and play a classic solo they learnt years ago. Satriani said in a recent guitar mag that he occasionally jams on old records, just like he did when he was young.
Ponch
Well-known member
hi bro Scott!
here's my thought.. for the learning issue.. IMHO it doesn't matter if we can't play the melody/solo exactly the same as the original solo. I guess the point of learning solo is to understand the music concept of the artist that we like.. so then we can add and improve our music knowledge with all that good information, and at the same time we're also develop our own style too.
I think the best way to learn solo is by playing over so many different style of music, try to improvise using the basic idea of melody.. use different modes, then add some techniques, probably play it in different note grouping..etc. step by step always add something interesting in our playing.
So anyway, i might be can't help you much with this humble thought..but i really hope that you will find the freedom to play solo in any kind of music..or in any way that you may desire.
thanks,
Ponch
here's my thought.. for the learning issue.. IMHO it doesn't matter if we can't play the melody/solo exactly the same as the original solo. I guess the point of learning solo is to understand the music concept of the artist that we like.. so then we can add and improve our music knowledge with all that good information, and at the same time we're also develop our own style too.
I think the best way to learn solo is by playing over so many different style of music, try to improvise using the basic idea of melody.. use different modes, then add some techniques, probably play it in different note grouping..etc. step by step always add something interesting in our playing.
So anyway, i might be can't help you much with this humble thought..but i really hope that you will find the freedom to play solo in any kind of music..or in any way that you may desire.
thanks,
Ponch
Well said, us old guys used to learn by putting the needle on the record many times. Over and over...
I never looked at scales and modes (well eventually) I saw chords shapes on the neck. Many players (in fact two that are EBMM endorsers use this approach)
pauldogx
Well-known member
starting to see shapes and patterns on the fretboard was certainly an AHA!! moment for me----it was like everything suddenly coming in to focus!!!
Learning solos? Learning how to solo?
I've been playin' for over 20 years (insert bad joke here) .... and I'm still learning.
Just a couple of thoughts, probably already mentioned:
1. take your time with patterns, notes, scales, etc. etc. etc. - sometimes it's a good idea to walk before you run
2. if you can sing it or hum it, find the first note on the fretboard and try playin' it
3. listen to players who solo in a variety of styles - clean, dirty, fast, slow, etc .... variety can often give you some great ideas.
4. if the previous suggestions don't get ya anywhere .....
just plug the guitar in, crank up yer amp and let 'er rip
cheers, eh
Joel
I've been playin' for over 20 years (insert bad joke here) .... and I'm still learning.
Just a couple of thoughts, probably already mentioned:
1. take your time with patterns, notes, scales, etc. etc. etc. - sometimes it's a good idea to walk before you run
2. if you can sing it or hum it, find the first note on the fretboard and try playin' it
3. listen to players who solo in a variety of styles - clean, dirty, fast, slow, etc .... variety can often give you some great ideas.
4. if the previous suggestions don't get ya anywhere .....
just plug the guitar in, crank up yer amp and let 'er rip
cheers, eh
Joel
Paul in WV
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 116
Dude,
David Gilmour is a fantastic Lead Guitar Player...so is John Petrucci. They do it quite a bit differently.
Learn the song...learn some of the more memorable hooks in the solo then play your own too...you will be amazed at what you pick up getting from note to note in your own style. As you progress, you'll be able to do more and more.
I want to be able to shred my butt off but that seems to be beyond me. I want to play JPs stuff but I just don't have the ability (yet). However, six months ago, I couldn't play the stuff I can now. The fact that I can play "some" of the Dream Theater songs make other songs easier to learn as they aren't technically as difficult as others. That all being said, I know that I'm not JP and when I'm playing, I try not to be someone that I'm not. I know my limits and usually play withing those boundaries.
Scales and Modes are incredibly important as is theory overall but that can move along with your abilities. The more you learn, the more you may want to learn.
David Gilmour is a fantastic Lead Guitar Player...so is John Petrucci. They do it quite a bit differently.
Learn the song...learn some of the more memorable hooks in the solo then play your own too...you will be amazed at what you pick up getting from note to note in your own style. As you progress, you'll be able to do more and more.
I want to be able to shred my butt off but that seems to be beyond me. I want to play JPs stuff but I just don't have the ability (yet). However, six months ago, I couldn't play the stuff I can now. The fact that I can play "some" of the Dream Theater songs make other songs easier to learn as they aren't technically as difficult as others. That all being said, I know that I'm not JP and when I'm playing, I try not to be someone that I'm not. I know my limits and usually play withing those boundaries.
Scales and Modes are incredibly important as is theory overall but that can move along with your abilities. The more you learn, the more you may want to learn.
paranoid70
Well-known member
Horn player? You must have me mistaken for someone else. I have never played anything other than guitar or bass..... People have told me that my playing blows, but I don't think they were giving me compliments.
sim
Active member
+1 This is great advice. I couldn't agree more. The basic pentatonic scale opens up a whole new world to the begining lead player. Great scale for improvisation and learning how to structure.
candid_x
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 3,272
Horn player? You must have me mistaken for someone else. I have never played anything other than guitar or bass..... People have told me that my playing blows, but I don't think they were giving me compliments.
Woops, sorry about that.
Other people... well, it's pretty relative. There's actually some who think I'm a great player! Har Har! S'all good though. It's not a contest.
Hey Bro...
When I learn a solo, I first try to make sure I can understand it, it its not to fast for me
1. If it is too fast, I will usually look at it on tabs and learn it that way, then practice it until it is clean, make sure everything is perfect on it.
2. But like spud said, they have those cd things by tascam I believe, where you can slow down the song without changing the key or quality.
3. If you want to start learning leads, you are going to have to practice some major scale work. Just to chromatics. I do 4 per string on each string, and use a little variety. I would also recommend picking up a copy of John Petrucci's Rock Discipline DVD. I'm telling you, that made me go from learning stuff from Creed, to learning a little more of Dream Theater and John Petrucci. It helped me also develop a technique, and overall better chops.
When I learn a solo, I first try to make sure I can understand it, it its not to fast for me
1. If it is too fast, I will usually look at it on tabs and learn it that way, then practice it until it is clean, make sure everything is perfect on it.
2. But like spud said, they have those cd things by tascam I believe, where you can slow down the song without changing the key or quality.
3. If you want to start learning leads, you are going to have to practice some major scale work. Just to chromatics. I do 4 per string on each string, and use a little variety. I would also recommend picking up a copy of John Petrucci's Rock Discipline DVD. I'm telling you, that made me go from learning stuff from Creed, to learning a little more of Dream Theater and John Petrucci. It helped me also develop a technique, and overall better chops.
