Question Luke 3 and Reflex compared

[Lanky]

Hi everybody, I own a luke 3 HH which I like a lot, but always drooled over a Reflex (the regular one, not the GC). Now I have an option of buying one, but cannot try it out.
Does anyone own or know both guitars? I know this is mainly theoretical, and trying it out is what normally should happen, but as I don't have the opportunity, could you comment on these questions:

• I know the necks are different (V on the Luke vs. D), but they have same (rather flat) radius, is there a significant difference in feel & playability?
• How would you describe the ergonomy of the body, compared to the Luke 3? I'm mainly playing while sitting on a bar chair.
• One other feature that I like a lot on the Luke 3 is that there is no decrease in volume when you switch from humbucking to SC mode...I guess this is due to the boost circuit? How is that on the Reflex? I know it doesn't have a boost, but is the volume drop very noticable, like on any other 'regular' guitar when doing a coil split?
• Last but not least, actually most importantly, how is the Reflex compared to the Luke 3, sound-wise? As much as I love the sounds of the Luke (actually I think they are amazing), I'm kinda missing some softer dark & jazzy clean sounds, do you think the Reflex could deliver these (I'm thinking of the tone block, to potentially produce some 335-ish sounds....)? The few Youtube-"reviews" that I found don't really help in this regard.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dwells]

i own 3 reflexs and 2 lukes
the neck isnt too much different, i prefer the reflex necks,
the body is bigger but extremely comfortable and sits in the body nice.
the reflex can do anything from metal to a nice fat almost les paul sound and more.
i use only my reflexs live now, most comfortable guitar ive ever played. and tone for ever..
D

 

[threeminutesboy]

I had a luke 2 (dargie 1 very rare and a fantastic neck) and a 25th. I have kept the 25th

Those guitars are really different but I prefer the reflex/25th cause it has its own voice.

My advise will be to get the reflex and try it. you like it, keep it. You don't sell it. The quest of your sound is at that cost buy and try.

 

[Lanky]

@ dwells
Thanks for this - I also watched your video with the Reflex, awesome.
How is the volume drop when splitting coils? I'm a not too experienced player, and it would eliminate another issue to take care of in stressful situations, if the drop wasn't too significant.

 

[Lanky]

My advise will be to get the reflex and try it. you like it, keep it. You don't sell it. The quest of your sound is at that cost buy and try.

Many thanks for your feedback.
Also thank you for giving me the perfect excuse for buying one ;-)

 

[dwells]

its not really a volume drop its basically a less driven sound, its barely noticeable but the tones u get out way any drop,

 

[BUC]

I concur with dwells. Not a big output drop at all. Mostly a tonal change.

Don't have any Luke's but I would urge you to take a gamble on the reflex. In Dean's hands it can obviously be a raging metal monster, but I swear it turns into almost a telecaster with the flip of a switch and a roll back of the gain.

As far as jazzy sounds I think the reflexes amazing. I used to use it to do some Johnny A songs and found it did a really decent job with that.

 

[Lanky]

OK guys first of all thank you for your feedback. I've had the reflex now since almost a week and would like to draw some very personal and subjective conclusions. Maybe somebody else has to make a similar decision between a Luke 3 and a Reflex, and could benefit from this. Please note that I'm not an experienced nor a professional player, but more the average hobbyist. One general comment before I start: both the Luke 3 and the Reflex are phantastic guitars and none of them has any flaws or issues. I think that both, in their very own ways, are as close to perfect as it possible for a contemporary guitar. But they ARE different.

Sound
The Luke 3 has this one clean killer tone which is bright and shiny and warm, which for me ranges very slightly above the Reflex's tones. However, the Reflex's sounds are all outstanding, and overall the guitar is way more versatile than the Luke 3. From "woody" 335-ish sounds up to metal/shredding, and more, it's all in the Reflex. It offers some vintage-sounds that the Luke 3 lacks. So tone-wise, the Reflex is the one size fits all guitar, but I'm going to keep the Luke 3 (as long as I can afford it) for this one unbelievable killer tone.

Ergonomy
Both bodies are VERY comfortable and well balanced, when sitting or standing. The Luke 3 seems to fit me a tiny little bit better when sitting and playing on a bar stool, but this might be totally different for somebody with a different body shape.
I prefer the beefier, D-shaped neck of the Reflex over the Luke's V-shape. For those of you who who own or know an Axis SS, the Reflex's neck is very similar to the one of the Axis. A quick look at the Axis: the slightly longer body of the Reflex is perfect. I am rather tall and the Axis' body was just too short for me, I could barely keep my picking hand away from the fretboard. No more problem with the Reflex now.

Features
The one "feature" of the Reflex that stands above the Luke 3 is the serial/parallel switching option, which gives you way more sounds. I believe that this also makes these beautiful vintage sounds (besides the mahogany tone block) that the Luke 3 lacks imho.
The "feature" that the Luke 3 boasts is the booster circuit. It's a great one. Not only does it help in band playing/jamming situations, when switching from rythm playing to soloing (and when no boost footswitch is available), it also totally prevents the volume from dropping when going from humbucking to SC mode.
The Reflex is't bad in that regard either, however, the Luke 3 is better. There is no drop at all with the Luke, and a little with the Reflex.

There is not a lot more that I could tell, based upon my rather basic skills as a guitar player. I still hope that some will find my observations useful.

I own a PRS, a Gibson, and now 2 MMs (the Axis will go away). If I had to give away all my guitars and were allowed to keep only one, this one would be the Reflex. Overall, I think it is the best and most versatile package. But I would cry for the Luke 3......

 

[MattOfSweden]

Thanks for the write up, very informative.
I'm a bit in the same situation, no possibility to try before buying and have started to think about an EBMM companion to my Luke III. So far I'm weighing another Luke III in another finish (like you I abolutely love mine) vs a JP of some kind, but your post makes me think I probably should add the Reflex into the mix. Thanks again!

 

[Lanky]

Having played both guitars for a little longer now, I made an interesting observation, which may sound obvious to the more experiecned, but to me, it is a complete mystery. The Luke 3 plays "easier". It is very difficult to describe what I mean. Playing single notes seems easier. Bending seems easier and lighter. Playing chords feels more effortless. The Reflex isn't difficult nor hard to play either, but the L3 feels even easier. Here is what I did, in order to figure out why, and in order to make the Reflex become as easy plaing as the L3, so far with no success:

I always had D'addario .95 strings on the L3. The .9 EB slinkies it came with felt way too light. The .95 feel perfect.To equal this out, I also put .95s D'addarios on the Reflex, as the .10 EBs it came with felt too hard for my taste. The L3 still felt much easier to play than the reflex.

So I checked and compared action, neck relief and vibrato settings and made it exactly match each other, no success. The L3 still played easier.

I changed the setup on the Reflex, based upon what I learned about easier playing. Action as low as possible. Action was at around 1.8mm (sorry European measure) on the L3 and at ~1.75 mm on the Reflex, accepting a tiny little bit of fret buzz. And the L3 still played easier.

So I looked at the other technical data. Scale length is the same. Neck radius is supposed to be the same for both guitars at 12". Although the L3's neck feels much flatter - maybe due to its V-shape? Could this make such a difference? But I think the "easier" playing of the Luke is not only imagination, caused by different neck shapes, but real. I really believe there is less force needed to play notes or chords on the L3.

Next difference according to the EBMM web site: low & wide frets on the L3, high & medium wide frets on the Reflex. According to everything that I read about fret sizes, high frets should allow for easier playing, and for less force being needed to bend or to play notes or chords. This is exactly the opposite of what I feel between the L3 (low frets) and the Reflex (high frets). Next mystery.

Finally, I decided to put .9s D'addarios on the Reflex, the gauge that was too light for me on the L3. And they do not at all feel too light on the Reflex, but almost perfect. But even though there are .95s on the L3 and .9s on the Reflex, The L3 still feels easier to play.

Like I said, all of this is a complete mystery to me, and maybe one of the more experienced forum members or guitar techs can help me out. What makes a L3 feel "easier" to play than a Reflex?

 

[Lanky]

Sorry if my last post was too long and too detailed.
Basic question: can anyone explain to me why playing the Luke 3 feels "easier" than plaing the Reflex?
Details above.

 

[jzeijen]

Sorry if my last post was too long and too detailed.
Basic question: can anyone explain to me why playing the Luke 3 feels "easier" than plaing the Reflex?
Details above.

I'm afraid that it is just your personal preference that makes the LIII feel easier to play. Maybe the LIII neck fits your hand better? I've had both and have no preference for one or the other regarding ease of playing. But I feel that way about most MM models..

 

[Tollywood]

Sorry if my last post was too long and too detailed.
Basic question: can anyone explain to me why playing the Luke 3 feels "easier" than playing the Reflex?
Details above.

Hi Lanky,

A long and detailed post is always welcomed and enjoyed by all. It's just a difficult question to answer. I suspect it has to do with the neck shape and where the guitar sits on your body while playing it. The ergonomics of the Luke 3 are just a better fit for you.

 

[Lanky]

Hi everybody, thanks for your feedback.
Maybe neck shapes play less and less of a role, the more experienced one gets as a player. Like I said, I am not too experienced (yet?).
On the other hand, I'm trying to play with as little counter-pressure by my thumb as possible, due to some joint problems...so I very rarely 'grasp' round the neck. Therefore I though that the neck shape might not play such a significant role for me.

I'm really in a conflict now. A week ago, I was sure I'll keep the Reflex forever. The bridge humbucker sounds fatter, heavier than the L3's, and the neck HB sounds more vintage. I like these sounds and the increased versatility, and would miss that. But lazy as I am, I see myself playing the L3 much more often, due to the (for me) better playability.

 

[t_rod]

Is it a hard tail reflex? I think the vintage trem would make the luke a little easier to bend and fret notes compared to a hard tail reflex.

Thanks for the write up! Great observations, now you have me more interested in a reflex

 

[Lanky]

No both have the vintage trem.
But this makes me think of the following, which I haven't though of yet: the Reflex had (and still has) 3 trem springs installed, the L3 only 2. Maybe I can take out the 3rd spring, and preserve the floating height of the Reflex's trem by adjusting the screws? I didn't think of that in the first place, because I thought that the 3 springs will be needed to counteract the heavier gauge strings that the Reflex came with. But now that I put lighter strings on it, only 2 springs might be needed....!?
Haha, thanks for inspiring me, I'll try this out tonight.

 

[t_rod]

Good luck! Let us know if it works out for you.

 

[Lanky]

So, I took one spring out, and that made it for me. The Reflex now plays as easy as the L3. Maybe even easier or a bit too easy, due to the lighter .9 strings - but this doesn't matter and I shortly will put my beloved .95s back on anyway.

It was interesting for me to learn what a big role the spring tension plays for playability of a guitar, I was not prepared for that. The impact was much bigger than the changed string gauge or any other modification that I tried.

For those who are interested in some technical details, in order to maintain the floating height of the trem at about 3/32 inches (my preferred height), I had to tighten the screws that hold the remaining 2 springs. I think this would still work for .95s strings, but for 10s, I think I would need the 3rd spring again, or the trem would get too high.

 

[ksandvik]

Lukes ship by default with two springs which was an interesting observation for me, most strats I've seen ship with three strings by default. And yes, the block tension has to do with the strings. If you want to make a floating bridge semi-fixed, put in five springs to start with.