I saw this video of JP playing with a Majesty on drop D and fully using the whammy bar: MESA/Boogie JP-2C ? John Petrucci Ch. 3 Solo ? Tones on Tour - YouTube
What kind of magic is this?
What kind of magic is this?
- Thread starter JJBC
- Start date
Why would you need to block the trem to go to drop D?
IF the trem is floating, going to drop D requires retuning all strings - a minor pain as you have to return 2-3 times before it's stable, but certainly doable. I've done that with my strat.
However, I believe JP's instruments are set up to dive only. If the trem is dive only, you just tune down the low E. No retuning necessary - going to drop D lowers tension on the bridge, but because the bridge is already configured to sit flat, the tuning of the rest of the strings remains unchanged.
FYI, that's how EVH's D-tuna device works. It relies upon the FR trem being configured to dive only, so that dropping the low E doesn't change the rest of the strings. Folks have tried to put a D-tuna on floating FR bridges. It doesn't really work.
IF the trem is floating, going to drop D requires retuning all strings - a minor pain as you have to return 2-3 times before it's stable, but certainly doable. I've done that with my strat.
However, I believe JP's instruments are set up to dive only. If the trem is dive only, you just tune down the low E. No retuning necessary - going to drop D lowers tension on the bridge, but because the bridge is already configured to sit flat, the tuning of the rest of the strings remains unchanged.
FYI, that's how EVH's D-tuna device works. It relies upon the FR trem being configured to dive only, so that dropping the low E doesn't change the rest of the strings. Folks have tried to put a D-tuna on floating FR bridges. It doesn't really work.
tbonesullivan
Well-known member
Did he actually tune down to drop D, or was the guitar already there?
Anyway, here he is doing a bunch of whammy tricks that definitely require a floating whammy bar.
Anyway, here he is doing a bunch of whammy tricks that definitely require a floating whammy bar.
Pretty sure he just tunes to drop D and adjusts the spring tension to balance the bridge. So that guitar stays in drop D tuning. He has a pair of guitars for every tuning when on tour. If he would be playing along in standard tuning, then drop his low E string to D on the fly and keep playing, then he’d be using some kind of trem block.
I also have floating trem guitars which I keep in different tunings. This is a great way to convince my significant other I need more guitars. Just need one more for this tuning or that!
I also have floating trem guitars which I keep in different tunings. This is a great way to convince my significant other I need more guitars. Just need one more for this tuning or that!
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I wondered if that also wasn't the case - I'm sure he has a rack of guitars with various tunings, and his tech hands him what he needs as the set progresses.
For a while I did that trick, I had a guitar I kept in drop D. I also had one I kept in E flat standard. Nice thing about that tuning is that you can just stick a capo at fret one, and you're back in standard tuning for the open chords. Made it easy to play EVH tunes, as he does a few in E flat. Also Alice in Chains, nearly all their stuff is E flat.
Otherwise, capos are of the devil.
Hi!
Just to make my point clear:
I ask because if I tune down my low E to D it sends the other strings out of tune, so I need to retune everything a few times before everything is in tune. That's good, now the problem is if I start doing bending and/or using the whammy bar, the guitar goes slightly out of tune. I had also this issue with my Ibanez with Floyd.
So what I did was blocking the trem cavity with coins, it works perfectly but I cannot use the whammy bar. Now I see on the video that JP has drop D in a guitar with floating tremolo without blocked trem.
I have previously adjusted the spring tension when detuning the guitar so the bridge is flush with the body. However, I don't know how to adjust the bridge when tuning to drop D to achieve tuning stability when using the whammy bar.
Sounds like you've identified two problems: 1) Bending causes the other strings to go out of tune, and 2) Using the trem causes the guitar to go out of tune.
For point 1, well, that's inevitable with a floating trem. Because a floating trem stays neutral by balancing between trem springs and strings, changing tension anywhere in the system throws off the balance. Bending up will pull the non-bent strings slightly flat. Some live with it, some learn to compensate by applying a little counter pressure to the bridge with their palm when bending so that the remaining strings stay in tune. However, once the bend is released, the guitar should return to tune.
Non-floating trems can also exhibit this behavior, depending on how tight the trem springs are set. If the springs are tensioned to _just barely_ keep the trem against the body, an aggressive bend may be enough to lift the bridge slightly and detune the remaining strings.
For point 2, your guitar not returning to pitch when you use the bar, that's usually a sign of binding somewhere, either in the nut or one of the bridge saddles, possibly the trem posts/bearing edges, or a string is slipping on the tuner post. Is it one or two strings that consistently go off, e.g. the B or G string? If so, you might want to put a little wax or graphite in the nut slots and/or a little machine oil in the bridge saddles. If that doesn't fix it, there may be a burr or restriction that needs to be filed out. The bigsby on my Gretsch goes out of tune fairly easily, and at least one string is binding as the cause - I need to file the nut slot a little.
If it's slipping on the post, maybe the locking tuners aren't tightened enough. I had a problem with my Axis with a floyd rose going sharp whenever I used the trem which I believe was because I didn't adequately tighten the locking nut.
For point 1, well, that's inevitable with a floating trem. Because a floating trem stays neutral by balancing between trem springs and strings, changing tension anywhere in the system throws off the balance. Bending up will pull the non-bent strings slightly flat. Some live with it, some learn to compensate by applying a little counter pressure to the bridge with their palm when bending so that the remaining strings stay in tune. However, once the bend is released, the guitar should return to tune.
Non-floating trems can also exhibit this behavior, depending on how tight the trem springs are set. If the springs are tensioned to _just barely_ keep the trem against the body, an aggressive bend may be enough to lift the bridge slightly and detune the remaining strings.
For point 2, your guitar not returning to pitch when you use the bar, that's usually a sign of binding somewhere, either in the nut or one of the bridge saddles, possibly the trem posts/bearing edges, or a string is slipping on the tuner post. Is it one or two strings that consistently go off, e.g. the B or G string? If so, you might want to put a little wax or graphite in the nut slots and/or a little machine oil in the bridge saddles. If that doesn't fix it, there may be a burr or restriction that needs to be filed out. The bigsby on my Gretsch goes out of tune fairly easily, and at least one string is binding as the cause - I need to file the nut slot a little.
If it's slipping on the post, maybe the locking tuners aren't tightened enough. I had a problem with my Axis with a floyd rose going sharp whenever I used the trem which I believe was because I didn't adequately tighten the locking nut.
tekwerk
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- Joined
- Apr 2, 2012
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Hey Guys,
There is no reason to over think this... JJBC.. You did it right, tune the Low E down to D and retune. You will have to readjust the springs for the tremolo a tiny bit. You would need to loosen each screw in the claw and I would start with a half turn on each screw and retune. Keep making those small adjustments and retuning until the bridge is level with the body. Also make sure your strings are stretched. You should be good to go. What I do on JP's guitars for Drop D is use a slightly heavier string for the low(48 instead of a 46). It will still feel like a 46 when tuned down to D. I believe there is a sticky at the top of the forum for a video from Thomann Music where we talk about all if this for a guitar setup. Check out the video because I talk about Drop D setup.
Also, we never block the bridge. They are always floating.
Maddi
There is no reason to over think this... JJBC.. You did it right, tune the Low E down to D and retune. You will have to readjust the springs for the tremolo a tiny bit. You would need to loosen each screw in the claw and I would start with a half turn on each screw and retune. Keep making those small adjustments and retuning until the bridge is level with the body. Also make sure your strings are stretched. You should be good to go. What I do on JP's guitars for Drop D is use a slightly heavier string for the low(48 instead of a 46). It will still feel like a 46 when tuned down to D. I believe there is a sticky at the top of the forum for a video from Thomann Music where we talk about all if this for a guitar setup. Check out the video because I talk about Drop D setup.
Also, we never block the bridge. They are always floating.
Maddi
Well, there you have it. Maddi (JP's Tech) setting it straight. Love it that Maddi hangs here and answers these questions. Thanks, Maddi!
We also have to note, neither JP or Maddi are on-the-fly changing to Drop-D at a gig. If there's a song in Drop-D, they have a guitar all setup perfectly in Drop-D. Unless JP says, "Hey, tonight I want to use the Nebula for Drop-D song X." In which case Maddi sets it up in time for showtime.
We also have to note, neither JP or Maddi are on-the-fly changing to Drop-D at a gig. If there's a song in Drop-D, they have a guitar all setup perfectly in Drop-D. Unless JP says, "Hey, tonight I want to use the Nebula for Drop-D song X." In which case Maddi sets it up in time for showtime.
tbonesullivan
Well-known member
Has anyone developed a type of system that has the ability to float but also the ability to change tuning? The only thing I could think of would be one of those automatic tuning guitars, but even that wouldn't deal with the bridge angle issues on a fulcrum tremolo.
Might work on a Bigsby or Vibrola style tremolo, but with those are really only good for slight detuning and vibrato.
You mean like the D-tuna but for a floating system? (I understand that the D-tuna only works when the trem is set to dive only.)
I haven't heard of such a system, although I wonder if something akin to how the Evertune bridge works might be the ticket, as it compensates for changing string tensions. Maybe adapted to the floyd rose trem, only b/c it's already set to adjust tuning at the bridge, or a Steinberger for the same reason. It would also need to interact with the trem claw tension if float angle is maintained.
Thanks Maddi! I did watch your Thomann video when it was posted here and put on the Slinky strings 10-48 on my drop guitar. It does make a difference with less buzz on the low string. Great tip, I never thought about doing that!
To the person asking about keeping the guitar in tune: I’d recommend Big Bends Nut Sauce for the saddles and nut slots. Just apply a very little bit every other string change or so, just follow the instructions. No more string ‘pinging’ when using the trem or tuning strings, and the guitar stays in tune even with serious string flapping dive bombs.
Now if I could find a back plate with claw screw access slots for the JP XI....Having those on the Majesty is great (now that I know about it, again from your video)
To the person asking about keeping the guitar in tune: I’d recommend Big Bends Nut Sauce for the saddles and nut slots. Just apply a very little bit every other string change or so, just follow the instructions. No more string ‘pinging’ when using the trem or tuning strings, and the guitar stays in tune even with serious string flapping dive bombs.
Now if I could find a back plate with claw screw access slots for the JP XI....Having those on the Majesty is great (now that I know about it, again from your video)
With the floating trem on the JP, I have a Tremol-no on my JPX and a brass block on the JP6 that can be loosened to float or tighten the bridge. Block, change tunings, float again. Easy.
Drop D from standard is hardly a change either, once you get used to it you can retune the rest of the strings fairly quickly without needing to block the trem.
Drop D from standard is hardly a change either, once you get used to it you can retune the rest of the strings fairly quickly without needing to block the trem.
tekwerk
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- Apr 2, 2012
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You can order a new back plate from Music Man with the slots.
Astrofreq
Well-known member
On a guitar I had with a floating Floyd, I could keep the low E fine tuner tight enough to drop it to D without undoing the nut. I had to retune the other strings a tad, but it was easy.
