modifying a Sterling

[artiefacts]

I bought a Sterling the first year they were made. Beautiful instrument, I love the way it plays.

But I'm tired of the sound. It's too clean, bright, hissy.

I'd like to take out the preamp and use the Sterling as a passive bass. Will the PU work with an external preamp? Or will I have to find another replacement PU?

Thanks,

Artie

 

[adouglas]

No comment.


Have you tried EQ?


I've learned through experience that it's never a good idea to second-guess the EBMM brain trust. They're smarter than I am. And I've been a member of MENSA (no kidding). So I'm quite confident that I can't improve on what they've done in any meaningful way. The word "Ferraribu" comes to mind....

But that's not the same thing as altering a bass because you want to do it and think it would be a good idea. It's your bass, you should do what you think best.

Wish I could help you, but I don't know the actual answers.

 

[artiefacts]

No comment.
And I've been a member of MENSA (no kidding). So I'm quite confident that I can't improve on what they've done in any meaningful way. The word "Ferraribu" comes to mind....

Oh, I believe you. I can't remember the last time I heard a non-MENSA member use the word 'Ferraribu' in sentence...

But I'm of the opinion that anything can be improved. All preamps are not created equal. And just think of all those 9 volt batteries in the landfills...Why not just have the preamp in the "rig" - the Bassman, the preamp/poweramp combo in the Anvil case, etc? That way there's no batteries to change.

Any non-Mensa types know the output impedance of the factory Sterling PU and/or its output in millivolts?

 

[adouglas]

Apologies...that came out wrong, as it always does. I was just trying to make a (lame) joke.

Basic problem with that organization is that you can never, ever, ever tell anyone you are or have been a member because you are instantly labeled as arrogant and boastful even if you're not...that's why I left many years ago.

Anywy, the "Ferraribu" reference is probably not something you're familiar with.

Check this link for the origin of the term:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/events/musicman/#videos

It's in the "Stingray 5" video.

It's Big Poppa (Sterling Ball) talking about aftermarket pickups and how the basses are engineered. I know you're not looking to put an aftermarket pickup in there, but you are proposing to screw around with the guts of the bass so it's still applicable. This and the rest of the videos are pretty cool, too.

 

[Freddels]

I find the PU's on MM's to be very hot. Turn the volume on your bass down and increase the volume on your amp. Then play with your eq knobs a little. Reduce the treble, increase the bass, play around with it.

 

[artiefacts]

It's Big Poppa (Sterling Ball) talking about aftermarket pickups and how the basses are engineered. I know you're not looking to put an aftermarket pickup in there, but you are proposing to screw around with the guts of the bass so it's still applicable. This and the rest of the videos are pretty cool, too.

Thanks for those links! His comments are very interesting a great way for me to explain what I'm trying to say. First, I have to say first that I really like the Sterling Bass, the workmanship and the way it plays. So kudos to Sterling Ball for making a fine physical instrument. But using his analogy, the preamp in the Sterling bass (at least my Sterling) is not Ferrari quality, or at best it's a Frerrari that needs at tune-up. It has audible hiss, the high-end sounds hyped and brittle to me, particularly when recording direct. And yes, I can cut treble. I believe my bass was one of the first year (the serial is 37999) so maybe there have been some refinements in the "voice" since then)

Sterling Ball talks about how the electronics are "voiced" This "voice" is essentially a specific equalization curve(s) determined by a specific values of inductance, capacitance, feedback, etc. inside the preamp. This voicing is needed because the PU doesn't sound "right" or "sweet" without it, sort of like how your old record player won't sound right without the RIAA eq. curve.

I think we can all cite studio quality microphone preamps that are reknown for their unique sounds and eq capabilities. I love the Manley tube preamps for DI. These are what I call Ferrari-class preamps. None of them is powered by a 9 volt battery. Now the Sterling preamp is remarkable for something that can fit into thecavity of a bass, but having the preamp outside the bass (with a high-quality connecting cable) seems like a more like a Ferrari solution than a Subaru solution, to use his terminolgy.

So, what I'm trying to do is essentially move the preamp outside the bass. I'm trying to findout the impedance and output in millivolts of the existing Sterling PU before I start the process of removing the preamp and either using the existing PU or some other high-Z pickup ala the traditional passive FEnder 12k ohm and 250 mV output.

Basically, I'm just trying to find out if I can make the existing PU work, or if I need to by an aftermarket PU to make this bass passive.

Thanks!

Artie

 

[joshbrake]

I have nothing to contribute other than mentioning that I wouldn't modify my Musicman basses in any way. I'm obviously quite biased, but I think the basses are great just the way they are.

I hope you get what you want out of this and the bass doesn't end up FUBAR.

 

[Musicman Nut]

I bought a Sterling the first year they were made. Beautiful instrument, I love the way it plays.

But I'm tired of the sound. It's too clean, bright, hissy.

I'd like to take out the preamp and use the Sterling as a passive bass. Will the PU work with an external preamp? Or will I have to find another replacement PU?

Thanks,

Artie

I'd try More alcohol & leave the bass along, in Most cases this works Best.

 

[brooklynfall]

My passive SR5

Hey,

I tried what you're talking about - sort of - out of necessity. I bought my SR5 used with a Bart pickup/preamp. It sounded OK, but not like a Ray at all. Next step - the Seymour Duncan SR5 replacement PU/pre. Better, but not really it.

Finally, accidentally, the Duncan preamp shorted out. Gah. So I wired the pickup like an old Fender P-bass, removed two knobs and the battery compartment and left it as a 2-knob (volume and tone) passive SR5.

Moral of the story - I believe you can remove the preamp and wire the Sterling in passive. Mine sounds like garbage, but that's not because it's passive. It's because it's not an EB pickup, in my opinion. To this day I scour eBay for factory electronics.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Phil

 

[artiefacts]

Moral of the story - I believe you can remove the preamp and wire the Sterling in passive. Mine sounds like garbage, but that's not because it's passive. It's because it's not an EB pickup, in my opinion. To this day I scour eBay for factory electronics.

Thanks for your reply, Phil. I know this kind of modification is not for everyone. And Sterling Ball obviously knows how to make a fine instrument. His comments in the video about "voicing" have lots of implications. It takes a lot of patience and knowledge to design a pickup that sounds subjectively "good" in a given bass and postion on that bass. I'm still in the research mode on this project. My guess is that once you start down the road designing active instruments, a lot of the considerations for making a good passive instrument can be ignored to the extent that you can correct impedance and frequency response problems with opamps, and that gives you more options when making the pickup.

I'm still looking for the output data for the stock Sterling pickup. Anyone?

Artie

Artie

 

[StingRayzor]

Is there a way to wire the Pup directly to the outout jack and thereby bypass the pre all together? No volume knob, no tone, nothing. Anyway, then you could run it into whatever outboard pre you want.

 

[artiefacts]

Is there a way to wire the Pup directly to the outout jack and thereby bypass the pre all together? No volume knob, no tone, nothing. Anyway, then you could run it into whatever outboard pre you want.

Sure, that's what I will do eventually. But first, I'd like to find out the particulars about the factory pickup, specifically the output in millivolts and the output impedance in ohms. From my linmited research, most passive pickups have a relatively high impedance about 12 kohms, and outputs around 200 millivolts. I have exchanged a few emails with Dan McPherson at ernieball.com, trying to find out how the factory Sterling pickup compares to other passive pickups. He has indicated that the factory pickup is a low impedance device that might not work without the proper preamp, sort of like the difference between low impedance microphones and high impedance microphones - they need to interface with an impedance matched preamp input to work optimally.

If it turns out that the stock Sterling PU is high Z, I'll proceed with wiring it passively, with just a tone and volume pot and the low-pass capacitor. If the stock Sterling PU turns out to be some kind of special low Z device, I'll find a high-Z aftermarket PU and use it.

Thanks,

Artie

 

[robobass13]

Sure, that's what I will do eventually. But first, I'd like to find out the particulars about the factory pickup, specifically the output in millivolts and the output impedance in ohms. From my linmited research, most passive pickups have a relatively high impedance about 12 kohms, and outputs around 200 millivolts. I have exchanged a few emails with Dan McPherson at ernieball.com, trying to find out how the factory Sterling pickup compares to other passive pickups. He has indicated that the factory pickup is a low impedance device that might not work without the proper preamp, sort of like the difference between low impedance microphones and high impedance microphones - they need to interface with an impedance matched preamp input to work optimally.

If it turns out that the stock Sterling PU is high Z, I'll proceed with wiring it passively, with just a tone and volume pot and the low-pass capacitor. If the stock Sterling PU turns out to be some kind of special low Z device, I'll find a high-Z aftermarket PU and use it.

Thanks,

Artie

If you really want to do this, why not just add a true bypass toggle switch.

 

[artiefacts]

If you really want to do this, why not just add a true bypass toggle switch.

Is there a procedure, schematic, etc. for adding a true bypass toggle switch?

Thanks,

Artie

 

[robobass13]

Is there a procedure, schematic, etc. for adding a true bypass toggle switch?

Thanks,

Artie

well, you would have to figure coming off the pickup leads into a switch and then out of the switch to the jack, you would want to use a two way toggle so you could switch back and forth.

 

[maddog]

Oh, I believe you. I can't remember the last time I heard a non-MENSA member use the word 'Ferraribu' in sentence...

My work is done. I live on in infamy.

But I'm of the opinion that anything can be improved.

Things can be changed. Improvement, however, requires a very specific definition to really work.

Cheaper to try wiring the P/U's straight to the jack than buying new P/Us.

I leave you with my last thought, "flats".

 

[newtley]

I leave you with my last thought, "flats".

+100

**very very** greasy on my sterling SH..

..used to have a sterling H with an aftermarket alnico p/u; which was close, but flats along with p/u select in position 4 (coils 2+3)in this SH makes me feel like I have baloney in my shoes..hey wait..I DO..

 

[artiefacts]

My work is done. I live on in infamy.



Things can be changed. Improvement, however, requires a very specific definition to really work.

Cheaper to try wiring the P/U's straight to the jack than buying new P/Us.

I leave you with my last thought, "flats".

Well, thanks, I think. I don't how much more specific I can get. Does anyone know the output voltage and impedance of the factory Sterling PU? Is it low impedance or not?

And thanks again to those who recommend flatwounds. I have a 1962 Fender Precision with flatwounds and the orginal factory mute (new rubber) on the bridge. It's perfect for old rock, r&b, the 'Jamerson' sound.

I want the Sterling for more modern sounding funk-fusion stuff, but it's just too bright. There's audible hiss when recording with a DI! I don't care what it costs. It's mine, it's paid for, and I want to change it up.

Gee, whiz, this is a tough crowd...

 

[artiefacts]

+100

**very very** greasy on my sterling SH..

..used to have a sterling H with an aftermarket alnico p/u; which was close, but flats along with p/u select in position 4 (coils 2+3)in this SH makes me feel like I have baloney in my shoes..hey wait..I DO..

You'll have to explain that for me, I'm an old geezer - 56. Is being 'greasy' desirable? Do you like having baloney in your shoes?

 

[newtley]

gear oil and mystery meat..

You'll have to explain that for me, I'm an old geezer - 56. Is being 'greasy' desirable? Do you like having baloney in your shoes?

1) yes
2) yes

(whips off gorilla mask..)

I'm in the geezer class myself, artie..
Sorry..the admittedly obscure "greasy" reference was to an old David Lindley album that had a real loose but swinging feel to it. Kinda wanky sounds but it all fit together in a cool way. Not to imply my SH/flats is wanky; more that this setup helps un-zing the sound and help it occupy a dense,deeper, thicker layer in the mix.
On the other hand, crank the pickup selector to bridge series (1+2) and the thing burps a 70's funk vibe that'll twirl yer bellbottoms in a knot.
I was a hardcore Roto RS66 guy for years..and routinely broke "E"s before they went dead(!), but am really having fun re-discovering my right-hand dynamics. This bass really responds remarkably this way.

You should try baloney in your shoes sometime..