need help with my stingray 5 sounding thin

[dave_b]

Hi,
Great forum, and this is my first post. Hopefully you folks can help me out.
I have a Stingray 5 which is my "go to" bass even though I own several more expensive basses. The tone is pretty good and aggressive, but to my ears a little thin.
I brought it up to Gary Brawer in SF (Gary is one of the best instrument techs in the bay area) to get a check up and some advice.
He happened to have another Stingray 5 in the shop and we played both side by side, and what an amazing difference - mine was indeed very thin. We also tried this with the same set of strings - same difference.
Gary suggested that before digging into the guitar that there might have been pre amp and pickup differences, and I should call customer support first and find out. Well since this is the weekend, I thought I would post here first. My bass is a serial number E36xxx which puts it around Jan 03, the other much fatter sounding bass was 52xxx which is May 92.
So, some questions are, what are the pickup and electronics differences that might be causing this? Could there be that much difference just with the aging tonewood? Have others noticed drastic differences within the same model basses (maybe I just got a thin one)?
Any thoughts here would be helpful. I just want to be able to get a thicker tone out of my bass.

 

[soniq]

How's the pickup height? I bought a Bongo that had the pickups screwed all the way in . No wonder the previous owner wasn't too happy with it.

 

[dave_b]

Hi, I have adjusted the pickup height, and it's up as far as possible without touching the strings while playing. Also I replaced the battery too, so this is with a new battery.

And for an update, I peeked inside, and my bass has a 4 pole dummy coil underneath, so I guess you would call it a three coil pickup. Do the earlier 5's have just two coils? That seems like it could make a big difference.

 

[Figjam]

The main difference is probably that they switched from alnico to ceramic pickups somewhere around the early 90s. Maybe you like the alnico sound. I dont think the ceramic sound is thin, but maybe to your ears it is. It is a little less full in the low end. More middy.

 

[maddog]

You may have the pickups too high. EBMM recommends 6/32" between top of the plastic pickup cover and the g string:

http://www.ernieball.com/faq_content.php?subjectcode=mm_basses

Not sure about the 52xxxx being '92. According to Gav's website:

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/TOWN8019/mycustompage0012.htm

I would guess it was actually around '96 or '97. But unless you pop the neck you won't know when the actual build date was.

Hope you get it worked out. If somebody doesn't come along, CS should be open bright and early Pacific time on Monday.

 

[phatduckk]

Hi, I have adjusted the pickup height, and it's up as far as possible without touching the strings while playing.

Ya, that's not good at all dude. when the strings are that close to the PUPs then magnets arent allowing the string to move enough. makes sense right?

I have toyed with pickup heights a bunch and its amazing how different basses sound with different PUP heights. too high is pretty bad.

as maddog said, music man's factory spec is "The factory specifications for the pickup height is 6/32" or 0.47625mm from the top of the plastic between the pickup covers to the bottom of the G string. The angle of the pickup is set fairly level, so the larger strings are naturally a bit closer." that quote is from: http://www.ernieball.com/faq_content.php?subjectcode=mm_basses

id highly recommend you hit up a hardware store and get a small ruler that has 32nd marks on it and then bring the pup to where the factory suggests. you'll probably like it at the factory suggested level tho youre always welcome to mess around and see if there's something you like better. but when the PUPs are too high it really chokes the vibrations of the strings.

i think that this quick adjustment will help you out a lot!

good luck and wlecome to the forum buddy. let us know how it works out.

Arin

 

[tadawson]

Y"The factory specifications for the pickup height is 6/32" or 0.47625mm from the top of the plastic between the pickup covers to the bottom of the G string.

Uh, that would be 4.7625mm . . . . less that half a mm would be a bit close . . . .

- Tim

 

[phatduckk]

Uh, that would be 4.7625mm . . . . less that half a mm would be a bit close . . . .

- Tim

nice catch there. i just ignore the mm stuff when reading. ill email Jon and let him know about the error in the faq

 

[dave_b]

I have toyed with pickup heights a bunch and its amazing how different basses sound with different PUP heights. too high is pretty bad.

as maddog said, music man's factory spec is "The factory specifications for the pickup height is 6/32" or 0.47625mm from the top of the plastic between the pickup covers to the bottom of the G string. The angle of the pickup is set fairly level, so the larger strings are naturally a bit closer." that quote is from: http://www.ernieball.com/faq_content.php?subjectcode=mm_basses

This was helpful thanks, I had mine a little too close. The sound definitely opens up a little with them lower. Defininitely better, but not yet as far as I'd like to try and go...

 

[dave_b]

Not sure about the 52xxxx being '92. According to Gav's website:

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/TOWN8019/mycustompage0012.htm

I would guess it was actually around '96 or '97. But unless you pop the neck you won't know when the actual build date was.

I might be reading something wrong here, but it looks like the 52000's Stingray 5's end in 1992, and there's one serial # on this page directly adjacent to the bass I tried that said Jan '92.

Thanks for the guidance on the string to pickup height tho.

 

[dave_b]

The main difference is probably that they switched from alnico to ceramic pickups somewhere around the early 90s. Maybe you like the alnico sound. I dont think the ceramic sound is thin, but maybe to your ears it is. It is a little less full in the low end. More middy.

I think this may be what I'm hearing. It looks like '92 is around the end of the alnico magnets. Gary Brawer also thought the difference had to do with the pickups, so this is all making sense now.

At this point, I guess I do like the sound of the earlier pickups. I agree with your description of the new pickups, a little less full in the bass and punchier, more agressive mids. To me this means less warm.

So this leaves me with a couple questions yet - has anyone modified their bass from a ceramic to alnico system (I guess it probably needs a pre-amp change as well as the pickups)? I'll search the forum on this, too.

Other perhaps the best thing is to leave my bass stock and find a 2nd early 90's Stingray. I've been scanning ebay and these rarely come up. I can see why, I certainly wouldn't want to sell mine... Any hints on how to find one of these?

By the way, thanks all for the responses, this forum is awesome.

 

[maddog]

Doh! You're right on the year. was looking in the wrong section.

 

[tadawson]

nice catch there. i just ignore the mm stuff when reading. ill email Jon and let him know about the error in the faq

I think a lot of folks learned "2.54 cm per inch" and out of habit apply it, when in this case, it is really 25.4 mm per inch . . . . dunno, but I have caught myself doing that on occasion . . . .

- Tim

 

[plato]

I got an 88 and a 95 SR5's and the 95 sounds fuller... go figure...

You can try and listen to the natural acoustic sound of both basses by puting a screwdriver on the bridge and biting its handle with your teeth or pushing your ear against the handle (no joke).
This way you'll be able to tell if it's the wood or the electronics.
Remember that each bass is unique and inconsistency is in the nature of wood.
Most EB basses are great but some are better than others.

If it's the electronics that's causing the difference then you can probably change it to whatever suits your ears. Alnico pickups are available from BassLines and maybe from EB too, you'll have to check with CS. replacing the ceramic to alnico will need a minor preamp tweak as well (chip).

 

[strummer]

I think a lot of folks learned "2.54 cm per inch" and out of habit apply it, when in this case, it is really 25.4 mm per inch . . . . dunno, but I have caught myself doing that on occasion . . . .

- Tim

Being from the metric world, I haven't got a clue as to what the above means, Tim?

 

[strummer]

dave_b, stick around and you'll se pictures of the 20:th anniv. SR5, which will have alnico pick ups. That coupled with dagrie and Big Poppas assessmant of the sound of the proto makes me think it'll be your cup of tea

 

[dave_b]

dave_b, stick around and you'll se pictures of the 20:th anniv. SR5, which will have alnico pick ups. That coupled with dagrie and Big Poppas assessmant of the sound of the proto makes me think it'll be your cup of tea

That sounds excellent! I'll definitely wait to see one. Any chance it will be at NAMM in January?

 

[Rano Bass]

Yes, it will be at 07 NAMM in January.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

I got an 88 and a 95 SR5's and the 95 sounds fuller... go figure...

You can try and listen to the natural acoustic sound of both basses by puting a screwdriver on the bridge and biting its handle with your teeth or pushing your ear against the handle (no joke).
This way you'll be able to tell if it's the wood or the electronics.
Remember that each bass is unique and inconsistency is in the nature of wood.
Most EB basses are great but some are better than others.

If it's the electronics that's causing the difference then you can probably change it to whatever suits your ears. Alnico pickups are available from BassLines and maybe from EB too, you'll have to check with CS. replacing the ceramic to alnico will need a minor preamp tweak as well (chip).

Or you can just play them unplugged and see how they compare (which is still more than audible in a decent environment)...

David

 

[dave_b]

I got an 88 and a 95 SR5's and the 95 sounds fuller... go figure...

You can try and listen to the natural acoustic sound of both basses by puting a screwdriver on the bridge and biting its handle with your teeth or pushing your ear against the handle (no joke).
This way you'll be able to tell if it's the wood or the electronics.
Remember that each bass is unique and inconsistency is in the nature of wood.
Most EB basses are great but some are better than others.

If it's the electronics that's causing the difference then you can probably change it to whatever suits your ears. Alnico pickups are available from BassLines and maybe from EB too, you'll have to check with CS. replacing the ceramic to alnico will need a minor preamp tweak as well (chip).

Good suggestion. We did try listening to the two basses unplugged and they seemed pretty similar.

I may try the alnico pickup option, but since it's so close to NAMM I'll wait to see the new 'old' basses there.

Yes, it will be at 07 NAMM in January.

Great, I'll be checking it out!!