Big Poppa
Well-known member
OK there is a new entry to my blog
- Thread starter Big Poppa
- Start date
metalmarty
Well-known member
Great blog-entry. Record-companies are dinosaurs on the brink of extinction. They refuse to acknowledge this new day and age. Unbelievable. Downloading didn't kill the business, the suits did. Gene Simmons can scream all he wants, but this is the new reality.
I think Trent Raznor from Nine Inch Nails has it pretty much worked out and it could serve as a template of how to proceed:
After he saw how he got screwed over by the industry he took action. Since 2008 he does it all himself. Record, produce, distribute. After ditching the recordcompany he can now do whatever he wants. He built a big website with chatrooms, forum, remix-section, upload-function. Everything to bring fans closer together, to eachother and to himself. He encourages people to record and videotape his concerts and upload the material. He made fans a part of NIN. He doesn't see the music he makes as property, he knows it will end up on downloadsites anyway. You can download all albums since he left the recordcompany for free, WITH artwork and in all formats, including lossless. He even gives the tracks a Creative Commons-license empowering the fans to use those tracks to make remixes. If you want you can still get physical CD's and signed limited edition box-sets. That way he makes his money, and quite a lot. He had a Ultra-Deluxe Limited Edition from the Ghosts-album at $300 a pop for the die-hard fans, and he sold all 2500, signed, copies in 30 hours. $750k in a day. For music he gave away for free. He made 1.6M dollars in a week. On music you could download for free, legally and with Creative Commons.
Artists needing copyrights and a musiclabel is a myth.
“One of the biggest wake-up calls of my career was when I saw a record contract. I said, ‘Wait - you sell it for $18.98 and I make 80 cents? And I have to pay you back the money you lent me to make it and then you own it?’ Who the **** made that rule? Oh! The record labels made it because artists are dumb and they’ll sign anything’ - like I did.” -Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails)
I think Trent Raznor from Nine Inch Nails has it pretty much worked out and it could serve as a template of how to proceed:
After he saw how he got screwed over by the industry he took action. Since 2008 he does it all himself. Record, produce, distribute. After ditching the recordcompany he can now do whatever he wants. He built a big website with chatrooms, forum, remix-section, upload-function. Everything to bring fans closer together, to eachother and to himself. He encourages people to record and videotape his concerts and upload the material. He made fans a part of NIN. He doesn't see the music he makes as property, he knows it will end up on downloadsites anyway. You can download all albums since he left the recordcompany for free, WITH artwork and in all formats, including lossless. He even gives the tracks a Creative Commons-license empowering the fans to use those tracks to make remixes. If you want you can still get physical CD's and signed limited edition box-sets. That way he makes his money, and quite a lot. He had a Ultra-Deluxe Limited Edition from the Ghosts-album at $300 a pop for the die-hard fans, and he sold all 2500, signed, copies in 30 hours. $750k in a day. For music he gave away for free. He made 1.6M dollars in a week. On music you could download for free, legally and with Creative Commons.
Artists needing copyrights and a musiclabel is a myth.
“One of the biggest wake-up calls of my career was when I saw a record contract. I said, ‘Wait - you sell it for $18.98 and I make 80 cents? And I have to pay you back the money you lent me to make it and then you own it?’ Who the **** made that rule? Oh! The record labels made it because artists are dumb and they’ll sign anything’ - like I did.” -Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails)
Last edited:
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Its a great business You loan the manufacturer the money to build the product..charge them interest and fees they pay for the product and you own it forever....
ScoobySteve
Well-known member
Thanks for the post BP. I remember, SO MANY independent record "companies" sprouting to life around UCLA during my time there. I say "companies" because they charge for production costs and a small fee, but mainly aim at getting the artists' work onto an analog/digital medium so that the artist can distribute/sell them according to their wishes.
Record companies basically told everyone, "we're the only way you're getting on the market, so if you wanna be a rock star, sign here."
I totally agree with you though BP. SO MANY creative industries suffer from "record companies" or "distribution companies." So bad to the point that the creative minds, the artists behind the product, get officially boned.
Many filmmakers who have no rights/control over their OWN movies. Musicians who have no rights/control over their OWN music. Artists who have limited control over their own image and the way their portrayed. The artist making a fraction of the profits for which they created. The industry is framed so that the distribution companies stand and wait to be serviced by artists. It should be the artists who get serviced by the distributors. This helps people who create their own music, spread it to their desires and allows them to be their own entrepreneurs. In the event that they choose to buy the services of a record company, the record company simply facilitates the distribution via name recognition, and then takes a percentage of the profits. Unfortunately, its the other way around.
I'm usually a dinosaur myself with technology, but THANK GOODNESS for the new information age, the internet, advancing technology, and digital distribution. I remember reading an Interview with JP and he said clearly, with programs like Garage Band, Line6, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, etc, it is now within reach of every musician to get their music into digital form to distribute, giving them the power to manage their own creation. Power to the people!
Record companies basically told everyone, "we're the only way you're getting on the market, so if you wanna be a rock star, sign here."
I totally agree with you though BP. SO MANY creative industries suffer from "record companies" or "distribution companies." So bad to the point that the creative minds, the artists behind the product, get officially boned.
Many filmmakers who have no rights/control over their OWN movies. Musicians who have no rights/control over their OWN music. Artists who have limited control over their own image and the way their portrayed. The artist making a fraction of the profits for which they created. The industry is framed so that the distribution companies stand and wait to be serviced by artists. It should be the artists who get serviced by the distributors. This helps people who create their own music, spread it to their desires and allows them to be their own entrepreneurs. In the event that they choose to buy the services of a record company, the record company simply facilitates the distribution via name recognition, and then takes a percentage of the profits. Unfortunately, its the other way around.
I'm usually a dinosaur myself with technology, but THANK GOODNESS for the new information age, the internet, advancing technology, and digital distribution. I remember reading an Interview with JP and he said clearly, with programs like Garage Band, Line6, Logic Pro, Pro Tools, etc, it is now within reach of every musician to get their music into digital form to distribute, giving them the power to manage their own creation. Power to the people!
germangallardo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2007
- Messages
- 478
Record companies are good as a business until you realize it kills the manufacturer or in this case the artist. It used to be great when everyone bought CDs. Or am I missing something here? I'm very curious to where we are heading to.
To be honest, one doesn't know what to hope/expect from this profession anymore. As a musician that is.
Great post, thanks for sharing.
To be honest, one doesn't know what to hope/expect from this profession anymore. As a musician that is.
Great post, thanks for sharing.
Last edited:
the24thfret
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,458
Good post, BP. The internet killed a lot of traditional industries. Look at publishing.
Roubster
Well-known member
Very soon everyone is going to have a USB plug in the back of their heads. As long as I can play my own music in peace and as long as there is live music it will be alright. This is why I decided to change my major from music to electrical engineering.
the24thfret
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,458
koogie2k
Well-known member
Great blog Pops. I was on a very small indie label here locally. We controlled all our music. We did pay for the studio time. We secured most of our gigs and got paid for it. The label put on shows and had my band on the show. We were expected to play and not get paid. No problem as the label did advertise for us, put out our CD, banner, stickers, shirts, etc. It was a cool deal and a very small label who just wanted to sign some local bands.
Unfortunately, they went bankrupt. Reasons why? See above. However, we did play some really cool gigs with some bigger bands and had a great time.
I like NIN's way. It works, but, you have to put in the work if you know what I mean.
Unfortunately, they went bankrupt. Reasons why? See above. However, we did play some really cool gigs with some bigger bands and had a great time.
I like NIN's way. It works, but, you have to put in the work if you know what I mean.
Colin
Well-known member
really well written, brilliant actually
Astrofreq
Well-known member
I loved living in NYC and seeing the Sony studios and The Hit Factory turn into condos. Score 1 for the musicians of the world!
Sweat
Well-known member
Yep very good post/blog and so true 24 so true!
threeminutesboy
Well-known member
I must admit this is again a great blog post.
straycat113
Well-known member
Another great blog Sterling, and excellent subject to talk about. I see this as a catch 22 subject though. Record companies have been ripping off artist since the inception of recorded music, on the other hand I do believe they are needed as crazy as that may sound.
For anyone that grew up turning on the radio (in my case from the mid to late 60s on) their was just a smorgasbord of music played song after song and that is how you found an artist or band you liked which led you to go buy the 45 or album. I would be the first one to admit it was a fractured and corrupt business in many ways but the record companies signed you, got behind you and pushed for you, be it through payola or what to get played. Also they were much more patient developing artist in the 60s 70s and 80s then later years where if your first album bombed you were more likely never heard from again.
Yes artist signed terrible contracts and came out of the studio owing the label a huge sum of money (more Peter Grants were needed lol) and yes in the long run instead of being blinded by greed and trying to work with a guy like Sean Fanning who was pioneering the future, they indeed tried to put him in prison.So now today the record companies are just about obsolete, but in a way so is most of the music industry.
You would of thought that some of the great artist who knew what it was like to get ripped off would of tried opening companies in their later years with the artist best intentions being looked after. The Beatles did it with Apple and signed Mary Hopkins, Badfinger and James Taylor as artist who were relevant, but were in their 20s themselves and not business savvy as they had their own issues, but at least had the right intentions with what they wanted Apple to stand for, especially after getting ripped off by the Queen for 90% on every dollar, I think everyone knows Taxman.
I will give credit to the young African American streetwise guys who in the Hip Hop era saw they could rent a small studio buy Pro Tools and since they did not use live musicians, a loop and drum machine was all they needed and formed their own companies and told the big boys to go take a hike.But since that has been the most successful style of music for over a decade they still can make an artist relevant overnight and played on the radio or TV by doing one of those songs -for example Beyonce(featuring)- now you see so many of these type songs and never heard of the guy who does a little rap on it in your life but the next day he is all over the place. But they still incorporate the old school record company way of doing things, as I recall reading an interview with Eminem, who said Dr Dre made all the money off his first three albums, and he made his living touring until the three record deal was over, and now he is sitting pretty and has his own artist.
metalmarty I understand what you are saying about Trent Raznor and a lot of other artist do things along a similar line, but the bottom line to that is these are established artist who have already paid there dues, have a huge following and it works for them. I will be the first one to say I do not listen to hardly any new acts because I do not know where to find them. Yes millions of artist have their music on the web but I am not going to sift through a thousand bands looking for one. Just look at the balls on most of these people who tryout for American Idol that have no talent at all and either have you rolling on the floor laughing or cringing with embarrassment, you also have thousands of bands on the web with the same balls and no talent. On the other hand I believe their are a ton of greatly talented people on the web who are never going to get listened to and that is where I believe some structure has to come into this.
I really do not have the answers to how to turn things around (I wish I did and do have idea's) I guess we all agree the record companies greed did them in, but just having millions of people putting their music on the web is not the fix. The most successful selling music today (Hip Hop) is basically run now the way the old companies did it, but instead of suits their CEOs wear sneakers and sweatsuits, but at least they have a form of structure and eyes out for talent, not my kind of music at all but they are doing something right selling units and making stars.I used to be so anti John Mayer and not because I thought he had no talent, just felt he was overrated. But I have come to realize this guy is at the very top for making kids want to go out and play guitar, and so I hope he keeps going strong -and maybe finally puts that album out for me that I believe he has in him.
A whole new set of young people with a knack for discovering talent like David Geffen, Ahmet Ertegun, Berry Gordy,Clive Davis, John Hammond and so on did are needed to sift through the talent pool and find and get new artist a chance to be heard. I believe the web is a very important tool but it is still not in the class of a plain old radio, live show or a shot on TV.
For anyone that grew up turning on the radio (in my case from the mid to late 60s on) their was just a smorgasbord of music played song after song and that is how you found an artist or band you liked which led you to go buy the 45 or album. I would be the first one to admit it was a fractured and corrupt business in many ways but the record companies signed you, got behind you and pushed for you, be it through payola or what to get played. Also they were much more patient developing artist in the 60s 70s and 80s then later years where if your first album bombed you were more likely never heard from again.
Yes artist signed terrible contracts and came out of the studio owing the label a huge sum of money (more Peter Grants were needed lol) and yes in the long run instead of being blinded by greed and trying to work with a guy like Sean Fanning who was pioneering the future, they indeed tried to put him in prison.So now today the record companies are just about obsolete, but in a way so is most of the music industry.
You would of thought that some of the great artist who knew what it was like to get ripped off would of tried opening companies in their later years with the artist best intentions being looked after. The Beatles did it with Apple and signed Mary Hopkins, Badfinger and James Taylor as artist who were relevant, but were in their 20s themselves and not business savvy as they had their own issues, but at least had the right intentions with what they wanted Apple to stand for, especially after getting ripped off by the Queen for 90% on every dollar, I think everyone knows Taxman.
I will give credit to the young African American streetwise guys who in the Hip Hop era saw they could rent a small studio buy Pro Tools and since they did not use live musicians, a loop and drum machine was all they needed and formed their own companies and told the big boys to go take a hike.But since that has been the most successful style of music for over a decade they still can make an artist relevant overnight and played on the radio or TV by doing one of those songs -for example Beyonce(featuring)- now you see so many of these type songs and never heard of the guy who does a little rap on it in your life but the next day he is all over the place. But they still incorporate the old school record company way of doing things, as I recall reading an interview with Eminem, who said Dr Dre made all the money off his first three albums, and he made his living touring until the three record deal was over, and now he is sitting pretty and has his own artist.
metalmarty I understand what you are saying about Trent Raznor and a lot of other artist do things along a similar line, but the bottom line to that is these are established artist who have already paid there dues, have a huge following and it works for them. I will be the first one to say I do not listen to hardly any new acts because I do not know where to find them. Yes millions of artist have their music on the web but I am not going to sift through a thousand bands looking for one. Just look at the balls on most of these people who tryout for American Idol that have no talent at all and either have you rolling on the floor laughing or cringing with embarrassment, you also have thousands of bands on the web with the same balls and no talent. On the other hand I believe their are a ton of greatly talented people on the web who are never going to get listened to and that is where I believe some structure has to come into this.
I really do not have the answers to how to turn things around (I wish I did and do have idea's) I guess we all agree the record companies greed did them in, but just having millions of people putting their music on the web is not the fix. The most successful selling music today (Hip Hop) is basically run now the way the old companies did it, but instead of suits their CEOs wear sneakers and sweatsuits, but at least they have a form of structure and eyes out for talent, not my kind of music at all but they are doing something right selling units and making stars.I used to be so anti John Mayer and not because I thought he had no talent, just felt he was overrated. But I have come to realize this guy is at the very top for making kids want to go out and play guitar, and so I hope he keeps going strong -and maybe finally puts that album out for me that I believe he has in him.
A whole new set of young people with a knack for discovering talent like David Geffen, Ahmet Ertegun, Berry Gordy,Clive Davis, John Hammond and so on did are needed to sift through the talent pool and find and get new artist a chance to be heard. I believe the web is a very important tool but it is still not in the class of a plain old radio, live show or a shot on TV.
TNT
Well-known member
Yeah, and they wanted to get paid everytime you played one of their songs at a jam night/gig/or a back yard bar-b-que!!!
I DON'T THINK SO - EAT IT!!!
I DON'T THINK SO - EAT IT!!!
metalmarty
Well-known member
I read a story about Corey Smith, a middle aged teacher, unknown at the time, who decided to try the same thing. He gave away his music for free through his site. At his site you could order concert-tickets AND you would get discount for a friend. With this discount came new fans. More and more people came to the live gigs. According to the story I read he made approx. $4 million. Just by doing gigs. He didn't even sell cd's. He experimented by removing the music from his site for two months and sales plumeted, when he put it back up a sales were back up.
Time, effort and some luck. All the same efforts are needed for this that you needed to get signed to a label
. I actually believe chances are BIGGER through the internet to get somewhere now. How many bands do you know personally that got signed to a label and were actually helped by that? I agree there isn't a lot of structure yet, but someone will get a bright idea soon, I trust. I just fear it won't be me .I actually do that, downloading bands I never heared of. Downloading music is still legal in the Netherlands so I can simply start up a favorite torrent-site, choose the genre and hit search. Started doing that a year ago, and I found A LOT of bands I would never have found otherwise and that simply blew me away! Internet-radio like Pandora that you can set to a certain type of music is really cool as well. A lot of unknown names. Also, a lot of cool bands added me on MySpace, that is a nice medium as well.
Last edited:
straycat113
Well-known member
TNT I am not clear on what you are talking about, though I do recall something related recently to what you said, could you clear that up. Is their actually supposed to be someone checking on who is playing covers, though nothing would shock me today. I remember McCartney saying how he had to pay Michael Jackson to play his own songs in concert.
Another good post Sterling made was the one pertaining to Guitar Hero. I have two sons 18 and 13 who are both left handed. My oldest son was blessed with a great voice which I call the lazy musicians God given talent and never had an interest in guitar. My youngest son did show an interest in playing and when he was 9 I bought him a little electric ,changed the nut and set it up left handed. He took to it right away but after 8 months stopped playing and was more into video games, and though I was bummed out I would not pressure him to play.
The following Christmas when they said they wanted Guitar Hero I blew a cork and said I would not buy it, as they had so many of the real things in the house I could not see the logic. Well not to be the Grinch I caved in and they got it for the holidays, and I can still remember fuming watching them and their friends playing for hours. I will say it was nice hearing classic rock songs blasting through the house everyday. About 10 months later my little guy who was 11 at the time came to me and said he wanted to play the real thing which really made me happy. To take it a step further because you can only play the game right handed it turned him around to play righty and the kid has sick dexterity. So yes I was converted into being a big fan of GH, as two of my sons other friends also now play the real thing and listening to some great music on their own.
Another good post Sterling made was the one pertaining to Guitar Hero. I have two sons 18 and 13 who are both left handed. My oldest son was blessed with a great voice which I call the lazy musicians God given talent and never had an interest in guitar. My youngest son did show an interest in playing and when he was 9 I bought him a little electric ,changed the nut and set it up left handed. He took to it right away but after 8 months stopped playing and was more into video games, and though I was bummed out I would not pressure him to play.
The following Christmas when they said they wanted Guitar Hero I blew a cork and said I would not buy it, as they had so many of the real things in the house I could not see the logic. Well not to be the Grinch I caved in and they got it for the holidays, and I can still remember fuming watching them and their friends playing for hours. I will say it was nice hearing classic rock songs blasting through the house everyday. About 10 months later my little guy who was 11 at the time came to me and said he wanted to play the real thing which really made me happy. To take it a step further because you can only play the game right handed it turned him around to play righty and the kid has sick dexterity. So yes I was converted into being a big fan of GH, as two of my sons other friends also now play the real thing and listening to some great music on their own.
straycat113
Well-known member
metalmarty I think a few of us are thinking about the same BIG IDEA.lol
Marcus2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2006
- Messages
- 181
Thanks. I was looking at the "blog" option on the homepage.
