New SUB1 - and questions...

[swamp2]

Christmas came a little early - I picked this up off Craigslist last week. I was tickled to find it in this color, I remember the first time I saw a SUB1 was at GC, in this plum color. It caught my attention as a pretty neat guitar at the time - but I didn't really know what it was and guess I wasn't in the market at the moment.

Anyway, I've got it pretty well dialed in and it is a really nice instrument, I couldn't be happier with it. I guess it's all stock except the previous owner didn't like the painton the neck so removed it (feels sweet!) and purple knobs. So, now onto the questions...

• Most of the official information I'vre dug up on the model doesn't refer to this color - what is it officially called?
• Was the differrence in pickguard s (black vs aliminum-look) just an in-process production change or did they both coexist and were arbitrarily used?
• Serial number is x11947. What year would that be?
• I've looked, it has 4 wire pickups so I'll be doing some coil tap and other mods. Anybody have any favorite mods they've done to these w/ the stock pickups?
• Does anybody make aftermarket pickguards for these or are originals still available? Might make a difference how extensively I mod it...
• Any idea what total production of these guys was?
• Any idea why they used 250k pots instead of the "normal" 500k?

Any enlightenment on any of these would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[fsmith]

I bought one off of a forum member as a Christmas present for my son. I believe the official name for that color is cinnamon.

I'm not sure if EB has an official listing of serial numbers and dates of production on the Sub series, but you can try adding it to the serial sticky to find out.

If EB doesn't have the pickguards anymore I know you can get them from Pickguard Heaven. Mine has the single bridge pickup and I plan on getting another pickguard once I give it to my son and we decide what configuation he wants.

Hopefully someone else can chime in on the other questions...

Oh and welcome!

fred

 

[azazael]

Awesome guitars mate.
I've got single humbucker model but I am installing a neck pickup soon. I have had the pickup for AGES to put in it just been lazy lol. Need to hack away at the pickguard. Yes there are places that make pickguards for it. Off hand I can't remember but if you go to search on the forum there is plenty of threads for the sub.

I posted a thread other day with a recording I did of my Sub1. I love it. I got mine for an absolute song and I can't wait to I get things done to it. Mine is a hardtail, I really wish it was a trem like yours.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

That's the nicest job I've seen of the neck being de-painted. Maybe I'll do mine. Probably won't, though...as my paint is worn in at this point.

Join the Sub-1 user group now

jack

 

[V_S]

Don't know if Silo pickguard fits... but if, I would buy one and add a single coil plus a five way switch. Will give you some nice single coil sounds in positions 2 - 4. About the 250k pots... don' t know, but rewired my Silo with 500k pots and it sounds great.

 

[DTJPPR]

I would check out the SUB 1 tribute thread:
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/33617-sub1-tribute-thread.html

I'm partial to this Sub upgrade by jamminjim:

 

[paranoid70]

Hey Swamp2, welcome to the club. The SUB1 is a nice guitar, I got mine on craigslist too. I actually traded another guy for my old Ibanez S470.

Yes, you can get a production date on the SUB-series guitars & basses. There is a sticky at the top of the forum, and the customer service rep typically responds rather quickly.

You should stick around this is definitely the friendliest internet forum I have ever joined.

BTW, here is my contribution to the SUB pics.

 

[azazael]

LOL mine is Cinnamon.
I never even noticed thats what colour it was?? Must have been the flash.
I'm just used to mine being dark.

Anyone any ideas what pickguards would look on Cin Sub?

 

[jamminjim]

I would check out the SUB 1 tribute thread:
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/33617-sub1-tribute-thread.html

Hey thanks man, I really like it too.

My black one in the pic has an original Silhouette Special loaded guard in it, Silent Circuit and all. So technically it's a Sub1 Special. Right at the moment it has a Silhouette Special SSS loaded guard in it, with a Fralin BassPlate on the lead pup, think that's coming off though.

EBMM still makes Silhouette Special guards and they fit on Sub1's perfectly. You have to rout the body out for a middle single coil. Not hard to do. I dont know if they still have some Sub1 guards available, maybe, email customer service and ask.

Pickguard Heaven makes the guards for EBMM (so I've heard) and you can order direct from them too. Chandler or Pickguard Heaven.
Pickguard Heaven: Pickguards for Every Guitar

I've always wanted to do some coil splitting with some push-pull knobs. Wanted to wire up a Sub1 like a PRS McCarty. Haven't done it yet though, even though I have the parts.

I think the best thing to do is make a Sub1 Special HSS like I did, Silo Specs are very versatile.

Whoever took the paint off the neck did do a good job. Looks good, not a butcher job.

Congrats on your Sub1 acquisition and now you can join the Sub1 owners club.

Cheers,

~Jim

 

[swamp2]

Thanks to all for the responses. I've learned a bunch already trolling around the forum. A few comments...

That's the nicest job I've seen of the neck being de-painted.
jack

Oddly, the PO hadn't finished off depaintng the neck as well as you see - he'd left some up near the headstock. I guess he'd used a stripper pre-sanding and didn't want to get too close to the black on the back of the head. I thought it looked tacky and unfinished so one of the first things I did was just hand sand the rest of it off following the contour of the headstock edge. Hard to screw up and took all of 10 minutes - looks tons better.

About the 250k pots... don' t know, but rewired my Silo with 500k pots and it sounds great.

Did it change much? Get brighter? These don't seem to be all that dark to begin with, I just found it odd that most everybody else uses 500k for humbuckers. It's not a big deal to change them, I'm just wondering if it's enough of a change to make it worthwhile.

I got mine for an absolute song and I can't wait to I get things done to it. Mine is a hardtail, I really wish it was a trem like yours.

I ended up paying $275 including a nice Roadrunner gig bag - and the guy (a really decent sort) threw in a couple of pairs of humbuckers he'd pulled out of a couple Ibanez's he'd switched to DiMarzios. I'm not sure if that's getting it for a song but it is an incredible quality instrument for that kind of money.

The trem works quite well, no tuning issues at all. Maybe it's the locking tuners, I don't know - but I'm happy to have it.

More later,
Steve

 

[jamminjim]

Forgot to say - Welcome to the forum. That's a great looking Cinnamon Sub with trem you have there.

500K pots won't make that much of a difference - not enough in my opinion to warrant the time, effort and expenditure. EBMM folks put the 250k's in there for a reason; probably cause they sound good with the original pups. Now if you happen to have some split shaft 500Ks laying around, or solid shaft if your planning on changing the knobs, then go for it.

Steve, what are the knobs on that Cin Sub? They somehow don't look stock. I really like Q-Parts knobs as a suggestion if you plan on replacing them.

BTW - yup - you stole it from the guy.. especially a trem model for that price. Lucky guy you is.

 

[swamp2]

500K pots won't make that much of a difference - not enough in my opinion to warrant the time, effort and expenditure. EBMM folks put the 250k's in there for a reason; probably cause they sound good with the original pups.

Steve, what are the knobs on that Cin Sub? I really like Q-Parts knobs as a suggestion if you plan on replacing them.

BTW - yup - you stole it from the guy.. especially a trem model for that price. Lucky guy you is.

Jim, thanks for the reply & advice.

Re: the 250 vs 500k - there's a good chance I'll be putting push-pulls in both pot spots (coil tap and series/parallel) so the cost/effort to change would be the same regardless of the value - just a question of which I buy.

Re: the knobs - the guy said they were DiMarzio knobs - I see they do have strat knobs listed in "violet" so that must be what they are. He just wanted more visual contrast than having black knobs on the black pickguard.

Re: the deal - I really needed this guitar like a hole in the head. I'd actually started conversing with the PO at the same time I was working a deal on a new guitar at a local store (the great, great House of Guitars, Rochester NY). I made that purchase - but the guy w/ the SUB1 kept in touch with me and kept lowering the price. He was in a town 80 miles away so I could keep from getting too emotionally wrapped up - but as it turned out I had to pass through his area for other reasons - and couldn't pass it up once I saw it. He was happy to sell it (needed holiday money), and I'm thrilled to have it. I think it's just tough to sell stuff right now, with the impending holidays and sucky economy being a double whammy. I didn't low ball him, I just accepted his "I'll take $275, but that's as far as I can go..." offer. He really was a very nice dude.

Steve

 

[Slingy]

I love the stock pick ups, theres plenty of range in tone already with the HH model.

 

[V_S]

Well, hard to say.. with the pots I also swapped the pickups. It didn't have the stock pickups and I didn't like the Semyour Duncan Jeff Beck it had in bridge position (with the 250k pots). I first tried a SD Distortion. Both were to harsh and bright and I ended with a Dimarzio Tonezone. But there were two other reasons reasons I swapped the pots: First I like to use RS guitarworks super pots (RS Guitarworks Online Store). They have a specially designed logarithmic audio tapers which let you reduce volume more evenly turning the knob. And since I don't like the metal knobs I needed split shafts anyway.
BTW.. not eveybody is using 500k pots with humbuckers. Gibson (USA, not custom shop) has 300k pots for volume and 500k for tone.

Thanks to all for the responses. I've learned a bunch Did it change much? Get brighter? These don't seem to be all that dark to begin with, I just found it odd that most everybody else uses 500k for humbuckers. It's not a big deal to change them, I'm just wondering if it's enough of a change to make it worthwhile.

 

[jamminjim]

First I like to use RS guitarworks super pots (RS Guitarworks Online Store). They have a specially designed logarithmic audio tapers which let you reduce volume more evenly turning the knob. .

Went and checked out RS GW Superpots, they say in their info...

"Our custom taper gives smooth even response throughout the range of motion."

Almost sounds like they are "linear" taper. And I wouldn't be surprised if they are or are very close. A person could use an old style brass shafted linear taper CTS pot too in 250 or 500K or even 300K, no problem. But if they are 3/8 shafted then you'd have to get different knobs.

Hey do ya think of the top two pots at this link?
GuitarElectronics.com Pots

I really liked the CGE pots, especially in amps - They have the best feel of any pot I've used and are well made. Mojo Potentiometers - Guitar » NOS Gibson CGE 300K Ohm Linear Taper/ Short Shaft Potentiometer
Potentiometers

Of course you can spend alot more money on precision potentiometers, but it would be overkill for a guitar.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

$275!!!


At double that, it would be an ok deal. For that price, I'd expect the sheriff to be at the door for highway robbery. You did fantastic!

Hey......keep an eye out for an EVH or an Axis for $500 for me, will ya? haha

jack

 

[swamp2]

$275!!!


At double that, it would be an ok deal. For that price, I'd expect the sheriff to be at the door for highway robbery. You did fantastic!


jack

Well, heck - now you're making me feel guilty...

I don't think my wife, who saw me buy 2 guitars in 3 days time, thinks there was anything fantastic about it!

Steve

 

[V_S]

You don't get linear volume response from linear pots. And they're definitly not linear pots.
The GuitarElectronics.com Pots are probably just the same CTS pots as at RS GW... they will do the job. "Low capacitance" is probably bull****... I can't imagine that there are great differences in capacitance for all the pots out there.
As for the knobs.. they are so cheap I don't mind buying new ones.

Went and checked out RS GW Superpots, they say in their info...

"Our custom taper gives smooth even response throughout the range of motion."

Almost sounds like they are "linear" taper. And I wouldn't be surprised if they are or are very close. A person could use an old style brass shafted linear taper CTS pot too in 250 or 500K or even 300K, no problem. But if they are 3/8 shafted then you'd have to get different knobs.

 

[Dargin]

This guitar originally went to GC.. It was made on 9-14-04, and the color is Textured Red.

 

[jamminjim]

You don't get linear volume response from linear pots..

Right! forgot about that. Linear pots could be used for tone controls. What does a linear pot sound like as a volume pot?