New to me Cutlass HSS - Very Noisy and Dark

[7.62]

I just picked up a 2020 Cutlass HSS in Stealth and it plays amazingly well. So excited about my first EBMM!

I read over and over that folks described the Cutlass as bright, but there is nowhere near the bite of my U.S. G&L Legacy with alinco 5s. The Cutlass single coils are very dark in comparison. Does any one else feel this way about the Cutlass single coils?

Also, the neck pickup is RIDICULOUSLY noisy. Not just 60s cycle hum, but all kinds of hiss and trash. My G&L, teles, etc are all way quieter with no type of noise reduction system onboard. Could this be a bad pickup? Bad Silent Circuit (battery is good)? There is some noise when the middle pickup is introduced but nowhere near what I get from the neck pickup. Kinda pissed about this, but if the guitar shop that was selling it on consignment never played it through overdrive, they may not have noticed. The seller DEFINITELY had to know about this.

 

[beej]

I wouldn't say they're overly bright- my Luke (with the same pickups) is quite a bit brighter than my Cutlass. But given that you're having other issues, I'm wondering if the wiring is original. (The neck pickup should not be that noisy.)

Is there noise cancellation on the middle pickup on it's own? There's a trimpot on the PCB to adjust the level of hum reduction to see if it's working. Though that wouldn't explain the really bad noise from the neck p/u.

Might be worth taking off the pickguard and having a look, or posting a few pictures here.

Bummer that this is your first experience with MM ... but hopefully this can get sorted out.

 

[Sweat]

No not overly bright at all and mine have definitely not been noisy, so something else must be happening, your HV power source can cause the noise as well as florescent bulbs and ballasts

 

[7.62]

I wouldn't say they're overly bright- my Luke (with the same pickups) is quite a bit brighter than my Cutlass. But given that you're having other issues, I'm wondering if the wiring is original. (The neck pickup should not be that noisy.)

Is there noise cancellation on the middle pickup on it's own? There's a trimpot on the PCB to adjust the level of hum reduction to see if it's working. Though that wouldn't explain the really bad noise from the neck p/u.

Might be worth taking off the pickguard and having a look, or posting a few pictures here.

Bummer that this is your first experience with MM ... but hopefully this can get sorted out.

So in the middle position, there is noise cancelling…or it’s just quieter. But again, in the neck position it’s just ridiculous. I would say my G&L Legacy is about as quiet as the Cutlass in the middle position and WAYYYY quieter in the neck position.

I’ll get the pickguard off and post some pics. But with the trim pot under the pickguard, how are you supposed to make adjustments and hear what you just did? Make an adjustment, put the guard back on and tune back up? Rinse and repeat? Seems like a huge pain…maybe shoulda made the trim pot accessible thru the battery compartment or something.

 

[7.62]

No not overly bright at all and mine have definitely not been noisy, so something else must be happening, your HV power source can cause the noise as well as florescent bulbs and ballasts

But my other single coil guitars aren’t noisy in the same way…

 

[7.62]

Pics…apparently I can't post pics? When I try to upload them, it says too large. Even when I try to take the picture using the "Take Photo or Video" option, it says the photos are too large for the server to upload.

Anyway, everything looks good...although I don't have a schematic but I'm sure I can easily find one.

 

[DrKev]

To post photos you'll have to resize them or upload to a hosting service first (like imgur, as an example) and then post the link here.

Obviously, the noise you are reporting is not normal but it can be difficult to diagnose these issues over the internet. Especially on a used/older instrument, we have no idea how it was treated or modified by previous owners. If you can lift the pickguard, check the trim pots for the silent circuit are in their central position. The noise should not be worse than any other guitar you own, and we would expect it to be somewhat quieter than most other guitars with single coils. Feel free to set the trimpots to a position that works best too. That not being the case, you should have it looked at by a good luthier/guitar tech and/or talk to the people you bought the guitar from.

Send me a private message with your email if you need the schematic.

If down the line you think you need to replace the circuit board, contact Music Man customer service.

 

[7.62]

To post photos you'll have to resize them or upload to a hosting service first (like imgur, as an example) and then post the link here.

Obviously, the noise you are reporting is not normal but it can be difficult to diagnose these issues over the internet. Especially on a used/older instrument, we have no idea how it was treated or modified by previous owners. If you can lift the pickguard, check the trim pots for the silent circuit are in their central position. The noise should not be worse than any other guitar you own, and we would expect it to be somewhat quieter than most other guitars with single coils. Feel free to set the trimpots to a position that works best too. That not being the case, you should have it looked at by a good luthier/guitar tech and/or talk to the people you bought the guitar from.

Send me a private message with your email if you need the schematic.

If down the line you think you need to replace the circuit board, contact Music Man customer service.

Yes, trim pots are at noon. How do you know what type of adjusts to make to the trim pots if you can while adjusting? Also, if the middle position has no noise, shouldn’t that mean they are set correctly.

I’ll PM you for a schematic. Thanks I could not find one.

 

[beej]

I believe they're set at the factory at a particular resistance. But I've always used my ears- hold the guitar/pickguard in playing position, and adjust the trimpot until you find the sweet spot. (There will always be some noise, but you find what sounds best to you.)

Yes- if the middle pickup is quiet then it's set right.

Fwiw, I'm guessing there's a bad solder joint or broken wire with the neck pickup.

 

[7.62]

I believe they're set at the factory at a particular resistance. But I've always used my ears- hold the guitar/pickguard in playing position, and adjust the trimpot until you find the sweet spot. (There will always be some noise, but you find what sounds best to you.)

Yes- if the middle pickup is quiet then it's set right.

Fwiw, I'm guessing there's a bad solder joint or broken wire with the neck pickup.

I didn’t notice any bad joints…everything looks good. I sent you a PM (I think?)…did you get it?

 

[beej]

No I didn't get a PM.

There's no real magic with the wiring. The Silent Circuit is wired to the ground of each pickup to inject out-of-phase noise. You can eliminate it by wiring the ground wire of the pickup (which is wired to a virtual ground) to actual ground. (Or temporarily running a wire/aligator clip from ground to that spot on the PCB.) As for the buffer circuit, it takes the output of the 5-way lever switch. Basically ... if the other pickups all work well, then the board is probably fine.

So it sounds like it's really an issue with the pickup. I'd try re-flowing the solder where it's wired in, just in case. But if that doesn't do it, then the pickup probably needs to be replaced. (Could also be the leads from the pickup are damaged.)

As Kev said, it's hard to troubleshoot over the Internet. If you're able to post a photo somehow, that could help.

If you don't feel comfortable poking around, I would drop MM customer service a line. They can help you with troubleshooting, and a replacement pickup if that's the issue.

 

[DrKev]

I got the PM, and replied.

 

[7.62]

DrKev sent me the schematic. Everything is wired up correctly. All solder joints look good. I guess I could try to resolder the neck pup connections, but I have never worked with a PCB before and am worried about killing it (I’ve completely gutted and replaced standard guitar electronics plenty of times).

Anyway, the seller is now trying to tell me it’s a design flaw that is making the pup noisy…that it shouldn’t be RWRP (I’m not even sure that it is) and that’s the problem, which is a load. I’m sure Ernie Ball spent all that time and money in R&D to be like, “well at least the middle pickup is quiet!” Ridiculous. Again, this neck pickup is noisier than any of my other single coil guitars, some of which are 45 years old!!

 

[beej]

Yeah, sounds like you might have a bad pickup there.

The seller's definitely wrong- there's nothing wrong with the design. (And the middle one should be RWRP ... and that has absolutely nothing to do with it being faulty ... and even then the polarity of the pickup only matters when you combine it with another one- on it's own you can't hear whether or not a pickup is reverse wound.)

Anyhow- you could ask MM what it would cost to replace the pickup, then ask the seller to reduce the price by that amount. It's only replacing one pickup so shouldn't really be a big deal. But if you don't want to deal with the hassle, there are lots of other Cutlasses in the sea ...