NGD: EBMM JP15 and some questions!

[gurtejsingh]

So guys, I finally received my EBMM JP15 Sahara Burst flame top after almost waiting a month (purchased from the states). Love the finish on the top and the roasted maple fretboard is super fast! As some of you know, I already have JP6 stealth, and the neck honestly feels so much more smoother and faster on the 15.

Of course, here are the pics:





Now, onto some serious questions that I had. I received the guitar with a basic setup done of course, but the action was a tad bit high, and the saddles were raised too much. So, as any one would, I went ahead to do my own setup (I've been doing them from the past 2 years on my JP6), but right away I think I found something weird (for the lack of a better word).

The saddles have to be raised quite high to eliminate fret buzz (not the usual buzz, you know what I am talking about) on almost all the strings, specifically the low-E. I had the bridge flush with the body, almost straight neck and everything. You can see from the pic below as to what my setup looked like last night:



If you see the saddles, you will understand that they are pretty high just to avoid fret buzz, and the bridge may look low to you, but it's actually flush with the body. This probably does not seem right to me, as the strings should not arch so much above the saddles, and plus, the strings get so tightened up that my hand tires after an hour of playing. In fact if I leveled the saddle for the low E, the notes would literally fret out throughout the fretboard. Plus, the intonation on the low E is another issue, but more on that later.

Today (after hours of trying other things), I went ahead and raised the bridge as advised by EBMM support and as you can see I had to raise it quite high above to eliminate the saddle problem to some extent, but induced a super high action.



I am quite worried about the guitar to be honest, and whether I have got the right thing or not? Of course the S/N checks out fine, but I feel there seems to be a problem with the bridge/neck perhaps? I have never ever had to raise the saddles/bridge on my Jp6 so high ever before. Is this normal? Can a few JP15 owners please post some pictures of their bridge?

Please help as I feel a bit concerned after paying so much for a guitar which does not feel right, or maybe I am all wrong?. I love the JP guitars, and have played quite a few of them over the years, but honestly, either I need to learn to set the JP15 better, or there is something going on with the guitar. I don't have the option to ship it back to EBMM, the process would cost me another fortune.

Cheers and sorry for the long post. Thanks everyone!

 

[Jeong]

Are you referring to buzz on open strings? I find that with stainless steel frets, the buzz is much louder and brighter than on guitars with traditional nickel steel frets. Although buzz on open strings may indicate a low nut, i feel as though perhaps louder and brighter buzz may be a tradeoff of stainless frets. As long as the buzz cannot be heard while playing through an amp i think it's fine.

 

[sanderhermans]

If your neck relief is good (verry slight bow)
Then mayebe a small neck shim might be in order.... some ebmm come out the factory with a shim. So its fine to do one.

 

[MesaBeno]

Ok, so it's hard to help without seeing it in person. However, fret buzz is ok as long as it doesn't come through the amp. The way I have it set up, the thing buzzes basically everywhere when I play unplugged, but none of it comes through to the amp when plugged in.

The only think I can think of is that your truss rod may not be adjusted properly. But it may also be how sensitive you're being to fret buzz. I know everyone has their preferences, but your action is going to be pretty high if you want none of it at all.

Anyway, I know that doesn't help much, but here's a pic of my bridge:

 

[gurtejsingh]

Thanks guys for the help.

@Jeong: Yes I do notice the buzz a little brighter than usual. Is that going to different that the standard JP6? Did that not also have stainless steel frets? Also, does the maple board make a difference too? There is no open string buzz unless i play a string really hard.

@sanderhermans : Thats interesting. What is a neck shim? You mean this one has it installed or do I need to install one? However, if I add a neck shim would that not raise the neck further, and hence even higher bridge requirements?

@MesaBeno : I have buzz when played unplugged too, but my low E starts to fret out literally when played unplugged. I am not a huge fan of too much fret buzz TBH. I know the low action comes with a little bit of fret buzz, but the buzz is a little too much, hence the post. My JP6 has buzz too, but not so much as this. I expected the 17" radius compared to 15" radius to reduce fretbuzz rather than add it? Thanks for the pic, and yes, that does look more acceptable, however I am having a hard time getting there without have tons of fretbuzz. My truss rod is fine and I have very little relief in the neck, so that should not be an issue. In fact, when i add relief I get more buzz towards the higher frets, which is expected. Do you have any audio of how your guitar sounds unplugged? Sorry if its too much to ask

Thanks a lot guys. I am hoping to solve the problem.

 

[MesaBeno]

Thanks guys for the help.

@Jeong: Yes I do notice the buzz a little brighter than usual. Is that going to different that the standard JP6? Did that not also have stainless steel frets? Also, does the maple board make a difference too? There is no open string buzz unless i play a string really hard.

@sanderhermans : Thats interesting. What is a neck shim? You mean this one has it installed or do I need to install one? However, if I add a neck shim would that not raise the neck further, and hence even higher bridge requirements?

@MesaBeno : I have buzz when played unplugged too, but my low E starts to fret out literally when played unplugged. I am not a huge fan of too much fret buzz TBH. I know the low action comes with a little bit of fret buzz, but the buzz is a little too much, hence the post. My JP6 has buzz too, but not so much as this. I expected the 17" radius compared to 15" radius to reduce fretbuzz rather than add it? Thanks for the pic, and yes, that does look more acceptable, however I am having a hard time getting there without have tons of fretbuzz. My truss rod is fine and I have very little relief in the neck, so that should not be an issue. In fact, when i add relief I get more buzz towards the higher frets, which is expected. Do you have any audio of how your guitar sounds unplugged? Sorry if its too much to ask

Thanks a lot guys. I am hoping to solve the problem.

Unfortunately I can't think of what else may help the issue...as I said, it's hard to have a good grasp of the problem without seeing it.

In regards to neck shim, it has to do with the neck shifting inside the neck pocket. The fix is relatively easy, you loosen the screws of the plate by one turn, and then shimmy the neck to sit where it's supposed to, and while holding it in position, re-tighten the screws. I agree that theoretically this shouldn't be messing with the action, but it might be worth to look into further.

I don't have any recordings of it unplugged, but I can try to do some chords and leads unplugged and send it over. I'm not sure I'll time over this next week, but I'll see what I can do.

 

[sanderhermans]

Unfortunately I can't think of what else may help the issue...as I said, it's hard to have a good grasp of the problem without seeing it.

In regards to neck shim, it has to do with the neck shifting inside the neck pocket. The fix is relatively easy, you loosen the screws of the plate by one turn, and then shimmy the neck to sit where it's supposed to, and while holding it in position, re-tighten the screws. I agree that theoretically this shouldn't be messing with the action, but it might be worth to look into further.

I don't have any recordings of it unplugged, but I can try to do some chords and leads unplugged and send it over. I'm not sure I'll time over this next week, but I'll see what I can do.

Uhmmm no.... a neck shim is a small piece of paper or plastic inserted between the neck and body of the guitar (inside the neck pocket) if you install it between the screws closest to the body, the neck tilts slightly to the back and the action wil lower. If the shim is installed between the neck pocket on the neck side, the neck wil tilt up and action becomes higher. It is hard to explain if you are not familiar with this proces. So google might shed some light on what i am talking about.

@original poster: it seems like you knowledge of setting up a guitar is not bad, but also not extensive enough to really do annything more than what you have done allready. If i where you, i'd take it to a good guitar shop or send it in. Also its fine if you need to turn the saddles all the way up, as long as you dont run out of thread on the hex screws.... if this is the case and your neck bow is within the recomended specs, a neck shim is the next way to go, but if you are not comforteable removing the neck, let someone else do this. And read up first.

And as stated before stainless steel frets do sound much louder when in contact with the strings. I have this "problem" with my pdn 2014 stigray too, have to set the action higher on that one. Stainless steel has advantages but this is a down side to them (for me)

 

[gurtejsingh]

Thank you guys once again for so much detail.

For now, I'm trying to live with the fret buzz on a lower action, but from my past experiences, that does not last long, as I do practice without plugging into an amp too, whenever I have some free time.

@Sanderhermans: thanks for appreciating my knowledge, but I still have tons to learn. Thanks for explaining what a shim is. I'll google it up more.

@MesaBeno: those unplugged recordings will really help me gauge where I stand.

Also, what measurement according to you guys is considered low action? I usually go by the feel but would be nice to put a number to it.

Cheers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MesaBeno]

Uhmmm no.... a neck shim is a small piece of paper or plastic inserted between the neck and body of the guitar (inside the neck pocket) if you install it between the screws closest to the body, the neck tilts slightly to the back and the action wil lower. If the shim is installed between the neck pocket on the neck side, the neck wil tilt up and action becomes higher. It is hard to explain if you are not familiar with this proces. So google might shed some light on what i am talking about.

@original poster: it seems like you knowledge of setting up a guitar is not bad, but also not extensive enough to really do annything more than what you have done allready. If i where you, i'd take it to a good guitar shop or send it in. Also its fine if you need to turn the saddles all the way up, as long as you dont run out of thread on the hex screws.... if this is the case and your neck bow is within the recomended specs, a neck shim is the next way to go, but if you are not comforteable removing the neck, let someone else do this. And read up first.

And as stated before stainless steel frets do sound much louder when in contact with the strings. I have this "problem" with my pdn 2014 stigray too, have to set the action higher on that one. Stainless steel has advantages but this is a down side to them (for me)

Whoops! haha I thought the OP misunderstood you, but really 'twas I that did! I thought you were talking about neck mis-alignment that some JP15 owners have had to deal with...my bad! Proceed as normal...

 

[MesaBeno]

Thank you guys once again for so much detail.

For now, I'm trying to live with the fret buzz on a lower action, but from my past experiences, that does not last long, as I do practice without plugging into an amp too, whenever I have some free time.

@Sanderhermans: thanks for appreciating my knowledge, but I still have tons to learn. Thanks for explaining what a shim is. I'll google it up more.

@MesaBeno: those unplugged recordings will really help me gauge where I stand.

Also, what measurement according to you guys is considered low action? I usually go by the feel but would be nice to put a number to it.

Cheers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd have to measure to come up with a number. I like my strings as close as possible to the board without dying out or buzzing excessively when played.

 

[sanderhermans]

Check out the ebmm website. Go to FAQ page and under guitars, there are different topics including setting up your musicman guitar, the page includes measurements. Only measuring the relief or bow of your neck has no specific measurement. This is allways what you need to start with when setting up. Hold the E string down on the 1st and 12th fret. Check the gap at the 7th fret, there should be some room between string and fret but not more than a thick piece of paper...

 

[Jeong]

Thanks guys for the help.

@Jeong: Yes I do notice the buzz a little brighter than usual. Is that going to different that the standard JP6? Did that not also have stainless steel frets? Also, does the maple board make a difference too? There is no open string buzz unless i play a string really hard.

.

The original jp6s didn't have stainless frets. Does yours?
Also, for what it's worth i'd like to offer a piece of unsolicited advice:
When you first buy an instrument, it's going to feel and sound very different to other instruments you already own or have played before. Little things may bother you a lot at first. This 1 or 2 week period is a time when many musicians freak out about subtle perceived imperfections with their new instrument.
My prs cu24 buzzed a little bit on some frets due to fret wear, and it really bothered me at first because the seller had been dishonest about the amount of fret life still left. However after I took it to my first band practice i was in love. It's been my favourite guitar ever since.I've done lots of recording with it. I don't even notice the buzz now, and i think a refret is still a few years away.
I've gone through similar phases with other guitars after first buying them.
Why don't you try recording with it or learning a song on it? You may have a similar experience.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

I strongly recommend getting this for the setup Basic Setup Kit | stewmac.com

Is not an absolutely must , but for sure is great having it for an extremely precise setup

is it tuned one step down? - I found your older thread - where you said you tune a step down
your saddles are ridiculously high in the pic posted, I have a very low setup on my JP7 with the neck almost perfectly straight and action 1.35 mm for Low B and 1.20 mm for high E
there is string buzz - but the normal one - unplugged and plugged in almost no fret buzz only if a pick really hard on that low B or on piezo - which is normal having that ridiculous low action )

I found an older thread you opened on similar questions with your JP6

and the advice would be the same.
I'll putt here again the link with the setup instructions and the pics with my setup - extremely low )
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7bzN-lM42byYVY2UllVX3ZjOEk&usp=drive_web
also check that thread(see bellow) again for advice
http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-guitars/60698-john-petrucci-6-free-truss-nut-2.html#post974594

 

[gurtejsingh]

I strongly recommend getting this for the setup Basic Setup Kit | stewmac.com

Is not an absolutely must , but for sure is great having it for an extremely precise setup

is it tuned one step down? - I found your older thread - where you said you tune a step down
your saddles are ridiculously high in the pic posted, I have a very low setup on my JP7 with the neck almost perfectly straight and action 1.35 mm for Low B and 1.20 mm for high E
there is string buzz - but the normal one - unplugged and plugged in almost no fret buzz only if a pick really hard on that low B or on piezo - which is normal having that ridiculous low action )

I found an older thread you opened on similar questions with your JP6

and the advice would be the same.
I'll putt here again the link with the setup instructions and the pics with my setup - extremely low )
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7bzN-lM42byYVY2UllVX3ZjOEk&usp=drive_web
also check that thread(see bellow) again for advice
http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-guitars/60698-john-petrucci-6-free-truss-nut-2.html#post974594

Thanks for the response man. I do remember that thread too, and have been following the setup advice provided by you everytime I setup the guitar. The setup kit is not available in my country and I am trying to order it from overseas. I have a very low setup on my JP6 and it plays like a charm with very little fret buzz.

However, the case seems to be different for this guitar TBH. If I bring down the saddles on a pretty straight neck, there is a lot of buzz on the low E and A, and it's almost fretting out on higher frets, which seems really odd. I have tried various things, including adding/removing relief, raising the bridge, saddles etc. What I have concluded is that to minimize the fret buzz, I have to raise the action quite high, and it does not feel comfortable at all. Right now my setup is having an action of around 2mm, which should not lead to buzz ideally I think.

I will keep trying or perhaps take the guitar to a trusted luthier for inspection.

I am just wondering whether stainless steel frets and the maple fretboard causes more fret buzz?

 

[PaoloGilberto]

stewmac ships worldwide so no pb there just click buy )

I may be wrong and I apologize in advance but you might not actually have a real problem
If the setup is correct and you are aware that electric guitars have some fretbuzz - which in most situations is not perceivable when playing through an amp or guitar modeler - than it might be just your unrealistic expectation maybe ) no offence.
I wouldn't pay any tech guy for this. I have that setup kit I have the setup theory all aroudn me ) (internet era ) and I can tell for sure if something is wrong with a neck / bridge.

an electric guitar will never behave like an acoustic where you strum the strings and hear no fret buzz at all.
If I play unplugged and start riffing hard you may go mad about that "buzz" ) which is perfectly normal

anyway - we can't tell for sure just by talking over the forum and see some pics )

 

[PaoloGilberto]

here's a link with a very short video I recorded a few minutes ago for you
https://goo.gl/photos/NUWJBe6tCz7ebN9e7
this is with my JP 7 the one with the super low setup )) and in the room sound , you can here the string buzz too ))

is it worse on your JP15?
later edit: my JP7 has SS frets also + ebony fretboard which is very similar sound wise to maple

 

[sanderhermans]

Reading into your "problem some more i really believe that what you are hearing is maple fretboard + ss frets.....
If i where you i would set it up to factory specs and try to bond with the guitar.

 

[gurtejsingh]

here's a link with a very short video I recorded a few minutes ago for you
https://goo.gl/photos/NUWJBe6tCz7ebN9e7
this is with my JP 7 the one with the super low setup )) and in the room sound , you can here the string buzz too ))

is it worse on your JP15?
later edit: my JP7 has SS frets also + ebony fretboard which is very similar sound wise to maple

Wow, thanks a lot man for taking the time and recording the video (nice playing btw, and great tone). What you have there is exactly how it is on my older JP6, but sadly not on my JP15 for the low E. The other strings work out just fine with acceptable buzz, but the low E seems to be fretting out. I am taking it to a good luthier today to have it inspected and see what is going on.

I played this one for a hour or so yesterday and then took out my older JP6, and I could literally feel the difference, even when I almost have the same action on both of them. The only difference between the two being that my JP6 has a hybrid slinky and the JP15 I believe is shipped with 10's.

Anyways, thanks a ton for making the video buddy

 

[gurtejsingh]

Alright folks, a little update here. I took the guitar to a good luthier here (was so hard to find one and trust) and he was able to fix the action issue .

Basically, what he told me was that the truss rod was somewhat stuck (maybe due to the pressure changes and temperatures changes while it flew from the states) and he gave it some rotations and it opened up and he was able to make the neck quite straight (for me I had already reached max tightness, so I wasn't trying more).

Anyways, the guitar is very very very much setup now to my liking and I am absolutely loving it It still has buzz, but it's the kind of buzz I have always been used too. The earlier buzz was surely bothering me, hence the post. I still have a slightly higher saddle on the low E, but I guess that's something which the luthier also said is ok and nothing to worry about.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and help. I will try to post some more pics of how it looks now

Cheers.
gT

 

[beej]

Fantastic! Glad that all worked out.