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OldManMusic

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I had forgotten about the finish issues I had on my '79 until I read BrockLee's comments. I had to send my black and maple Ray 4 for a respray about a month after I got it way back then. If I remember right, the finish on the back of the body got really cloudy.
 

BrockLee

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I was aware that material like this (if not the same) existed when I first saw it on Ebay...perhaps a year or two ago. They wanted big bucks so I passed.

I suspect the root source is the same, but I haven't been able to get verification on that. Stuff appeared to have been sold primarily to 3 of us..myself, a guy in Arkansas bought parts, and a guy in New York bought a significant amount of memos, checks, etc.

To be honest, I ended up with the stuff the other guys didn't want and the seller could make no sense of. I simply instructed anything on CLF Research letterhead. It was a huge crapshoot. I didn't get every bit of it and have had to buy odds and ends from the New York guy that were missing pieces. But it has to have some significance for me to buy it.
 

BrockLee

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I had forgotten about the finish issues I had on my '79 until I read BrockLee's comments. I had to send my black and maple Ray 4 for a respray about a month after I got it way back then. If I remember right, the finish on the back of the body got really cloudy.

Black is the color they had the most issues with. There are examples in the logs of black instruments coming back multiple times for "repair" (they just replaced the bodies) and eventually ending up in another color. There are fewer black ones today than originally left the factory. There were literally entire batches of black instruments rejected by Music Man.
 
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OldManMusic

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Mine would have been one of those "multiple repair" Rays. I think I had to send it back twice in '79. The finish on the back of the body got really hazy, right where it rested on the lining in the case. All's well that ends well. I still have the bass today (no haze after the second trip - might have been a new body like you said) and it still has that unmistakable sound of a late 70s Ray. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
 

BrockLee

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Yes, that was a very common issue! There are some logged where the instruments were rushed through the finishing and bonded to the case linings! These and most other rejects were caught upon arrival at Music Man. Mr. Walker had a quality level in mind that CLF Research had problems meeting. Music Man had to start doing final QC checks upon arrival. This is one of the areas where friction was created between CLF Research and Music Man. CLFR felt Music Man was nit picking.
 

BrockLee

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I will share some stuff with you guys. If Broken Truss Rod still has the image I sent him of the alternate pickguard drawing I found, he can post it. I can't remember what else I sent him outside of invoices. I know we started getting into preamps. How there were revisions to the preamp itself over the first year of production.

Eventually I would like to be able to give info on instruments. But I want to really get all info in the spreadsheet first. I am always discovering something new to include in it. Example, I started entering in the production schedule and order numbers and started seeing interesting trends. Now I have to go back and get them all in. It sounds like no big deal, but we are talking 14,000 instruments and this is a hobby. It can take a while.
 

Rod Trussbroken

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Alternate%20Pre-EB%20Pickguards.JPG


As referred to above by BrockLee. Two Pre-EB pickguard drawings. It's unknown if they were considered as alternatives either before or after the standard oval Sting Ray pickguard (or if they were ever considered as alternatives at all).
 
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drTStingray

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I will share some stuff with you guys. If Broken Truss Rod still has the image I sent him of the alternate pickguard drawing I found, he can post it. I can't remember what else I sent him outside of invoices. I know we started getting into preamps. How there were revisions to the preamp itself over the first year of production.

Eventually I would like to be able to give info on instruments. But I want to really get all info in the spreadsheet first. I am always discovering something new to include in it. Example, I started entering in the production schedule and order numbers and started seeing interesting trends. Now I have to go back and get them all in. It sounds like no big deal, but we are talking 14,000 instruments and this is a hobby. It can take a while.

Thanks for this - it's fascinating information.
 

drTStingray

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Alternate%20Pre-EB%20Pickguards.JPG


As referred to above by BrockLee. Two Pre-EB pickguard drawings. It's unknown if they were considered as alternatives either before or after the standard oval Sting Ray pickguard (or if they were ever considered as alternatives at all).

Likewise, I'm glad they went for the oval - however they're pointing in the direction of the Sabre PG.
 

pacop

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I know we started getting into preamps. How there were revisions to the preamp itself over the first year of production.

should be nice if you could find info about the sought after black epoxy pre amp
 

Funkinthetrunk

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Mine would have been one of those "multiple repair" Rays. I think I had to send it back twice in '79. The finish on the back of the body got really hazy, right where it rested on the lining in the case. All's well that ends well. I still have the bass today (no haze after the second trip - might have been a new body like you said) and it still has that unmistakable sound of a late 70s Ray. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Hi all....long time reader, first time poster.

Wow, I thought I was the only one with finish issues on my 1978 built, 1979 purchased, Sting Ray. I also had an issue with the plating flaking off the bend on the bridge. It was replaced with the newer "Music Man" stamped bridge, that the thru hole didn't totally line up with. But I got it to work, so all was good. I still have this bass as it was my very first bass. Purchased it new for $520...that was pretty expensive back then!

I've own a 1979 Sabre and two 20th Anniversary Stings...foolishly sold years ago. But I will never let my '78 and Redwood HH Sting Rays out of my clutch.
 

syciprider

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Alternate%20Pre-EB%20Pickguards.JPG


As referred to above by BrockLee. Two Pre-EB pickguard drawings. It's unknown if they were considered as alternatives either before or after the standard oval Sting Ray pickguard (or if they were ever considered as alternatives at all).

Looks like something Gibson will make
 

pete1000

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Melbourne, Australia
Black is the color they had the most issues with. There are examples in the logs of black instruments coming back multiple times for "repair" (they just replaced the bodies) and eventually ending up in another color. There are fewer black ones today than originally left the factory. There were literally entire batches of black instruments rejected by Music Man.

I know of an Inca Silver from around 1977, that has revealed many layers of paint as the body finish has worn from use. Sealing coat, primer coat, black (!), primer, Inca Silver, and finally, a clear top coat that has yellowed over the years.
I originally thought the black was part of the painting process, but this thread explains it better.
Thanks Brock for your contribution.
Pete.
 

pacop

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my 1977 Stingray, according to Brocklee logs had the body, electronics and pickup changed. Neck, neck plate and bridge are from 1977, body, pickups and electronics are from 1979. I don´t worry about it, is the best stingray I ever played.
 

BrockLee

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should be nice if you could find info about the sought after black epoxy pre amp

Holy crap! I just typed out a very in depth and detailed post, just for the page to log me out and delete all I typed....Frustrating.

I have lots on info. But most is useless as we cannot see under the epoxy. But long ass story short there are 3 versions of the Sting Ray Bass preamps in the 70's. CLF Research bought all the components and had subcontractors do the assembly. There were two major companies that assembled them.

The first preamp was the B1. It is the preamp that required the disc capacitor on the pot. It lasted until March 1977.

The B2 was a revision. It had some component value changes and additions. These begin in March 1977.

B3 was the final design. The first batch arrived August 1, 1977. It was a major revision. These were installed into many basses still in Music Man inventory and as a "bonus", most basses that came back for warranty service were updated with these preamps. As far as i can tell, all aftermarket preamps are based on the B3. Likely because it was the most produced and was also the only produced unpotted. I cannot tell you which version is the "grail". That is up to you guys...lol

The deletion of epoxy happened in September 1978. The preamp is 100% exactly the same. They just opted to not have it potted. These will have the tantalum capacitors, not can style caps.

Here is a list of the CLFR era preamps.

G1- Sting Ray guitar preamp.
G1A- Revision of the Sting Ray Guitar preamp. First batch arrived September 28, 1978.
B1- First Sting Ray Bass preamp
B2- Second Sting Ray Bass preamp. First batch arrived March 15, 1977
B3- Final Sting Ray Bass preamp. First batch arrived August 1, 1977. Epoxy potted until September 1978.
B4-The initial Sabre Bass preamp. Even after revision, Tom Walker requested this model for all Sabre basses he personally ordered.
B5- Sabre bass preamp revision.
S2- Sabre guitar preamp. S1 version was revised before guitar went into production.
 
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BrockLee

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I know of an Inca Silver from around 1977, that has revealed many layers of paint as the body finish has worn from use. Sealing coat, primer coat, black (!), primer, Inca Silver, and finally, a clear top coat that has yellowed over the years.
I originally thought the black was part of the painting process, but this thread explains it better.
Thanks Brock for your contribution.
Pete.

What would happen is they would stack up reject bodies and run them through the finish process until they passed. The bodies would not go back to their necks of origin. In fact, it seems likely these oversprays ended up on whatever. New builds, "repairs" etc. I am sure someone will find a major date dependency between a body and neck with the body being much older.

We saw this same practice at Fender. They did things the same at CLF Research.
 
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BrockLee

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Here are some internal items employees would have seen regarding earning bonuses. Accounting is the only reason we have any records today. Each department maintained daily records of production. Leading up to one last invoice submitted to Music Man where each instrument was noted by serial number.

And for those into the history, judging from the paperwork, Lloyd Chewning ran the wood shop, John Quarterman ran the finish department, and George Fullerton was the shop foreman, mainly working in final assembly.

woodshop.jpg

finish%20dept.jpg

final%20assembly.jpg
 
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