Ot: Do Warmed Up Electronics Sound Better?

[BigBallz]

This has been in debate for some time now. Electronics manufactures of various equip. from Stereos to TV's to musical amplifiers either state to let the equip "warm up" before adjusting or "break in" for at least so many hours before serious listening. Waddaya think?

 

[Figjam]

Eh, i dont think so, not for bass amps. Id be interested if i was wrong though.

 

[maddog]

Tubed amps, yes. Solid State, maybe.

Not sure how much the psychoacoustics play into it.

 

[Figjam]

Tubes, yes id agree with that but i dont use a tube amp

 

[tadawson]

For "fine aligment" this is true - things will drift a bit as the unit comed to a stable thermal point. This does NOT imply that anything sounds different with temp - only that you can see miniscule changes on lab instruments, and that the mfgs. use the stable, warmed up condition as a reference point for alignment. (Alignment being mainly in RF stages of radios, TVs, lab equipment, etc . . . . there really isn't anything to align in an amp. You set the bias, but I have a hard time calling that "alignement", which I usually think of as tuning a stage in an RF deck or some such . . . .). I think, based on my background as an Engineer, that the human ear is incapable of detecting any diffs here, and if it can, then the design of the gear in question is so poor that it belongs at the bottom of a lake . . . .

Oh, and on tube gear, the tubes are up to temp within 30 to 60 seconds (if they were cold, they would not emit - that is what the filaments are for . . .) and the other components are no different in temp stability than those in a solid state amp. If you ever turned on a tube stereo or TV, the time it takes for the sound/picture to come on and stabilize is pretty much the warm up time . . . .

- Tim

 

[Mr Light]

Hmmm...


Interesting...

 

[bovinehost]

Christ, look at the big brain on Tim!

 

[Freddy-G.]

I used to read "Stereophile" magazine a few years ago. And several of the reviewers of audio equipment mentioned that certain amps and preamps sounded better after a warm-up period. I seem to notice an improvement in sound with my system at home too, especially after its been left on overnight. A very subtle, but noticeable, improvement.

I can't say that I've heard any differences with a warmed-up bass amp, though. Maybe, it's more discernable with recorded music playback?

 

[Angry Jonny]

As another EE, I tend to agree with Tim though my degree is a little too fresh to have afforded me any tube experience. The only question that remains in my mind is if the "warm-up" period for the speakers is significantly longer. Mostly though, I think there are a few people whose hearing really is sensitive enough to hear the subtle differences that do occure and a few more who trick themselves into believing they do.

 

[maddog]

One thing I've never seen is a study in how long the entire amp takes to get to thermal equilibrium.

I agree with Freddy-G. I've never really noticed a difference with musical instrument amplifiers. But then again, the ideas isn't so much to provide a faithful reproduction of sound. However, in controlled settings, I have noticed a difference in home hi-fi stuff. Mostly in Class-A tube circuitry. Sometimes in SS Class-A circuitry. But then again, it could just be my brain playing tricks on me.

 

[cheezewiz]

Hey BB..I mean Ricplyrz...I think Jerrold Tiers and Bob Lee probably do know what they are talking about.

 

[BigBallz]

Hey BB..I mean Ricplyrz...I think Jerrold Tiers and Bob Lee probably do know what they are talking about.

Absolutly!! I pm'ed Bob. He's a pretty cool guy. But I have experienced differences in sound, ( not imaginary) between warm electronics and cold. Mainly in the high end stereo arena...probably the higher frequencys are easier to descern than low bass notes.

It's funny though, Ampeg themselves state to let the SVT warm up for 20-30 mins before any adjustments are to be made...however many people don't belive any difference between cold and warm can be heard...one guy even said it's a poorly designed system if you can hear a difference.

I look at it this way...an automobile is designed to operate warmed up. It behaves differently when started cold and driven off. So do electronics. They behave differently when cold as vs warm.

 

[maddog]

Oh, and on tube gear, the tubes are up to temp within 30 to 60 seconds (if they were cold, they would not emit - that is what the filaments are for . . .) and the other components are no different in temp stability than those in a solid state amp. If you ever turned on a tube stereo or TV, the time it takes for the sound/picture to come on and stabilize is pretty much the warm up time . . . .

- Tim

Filaments are up to temp in a few minutes but I've always wondered about them big ol' chunks of iron.

 

[BigBallz]

Filaments are up to temp in a few minutes but I've always wondered about them big ol' chunks of iron.

Exactly!! I have an HDTV and in the manual it states, "Let unit warm up for 30 mins before attempting auto convergence adjustment".

And, let me throw another wrench into this discussion...do you think an amp running on 110 volts ac...would sound any different than the same on 120 volts ac?

 

[Freddy-G.]

Filaments are up to temp in a few minutes but I've always wondered about them big ol' chunks of iron.

Yes! The HEAVY transformers that make some amps so heavy.

Reminds me of my Aragon stereo amp at home. There's a green light in the front that stays lit as long as there is power left in the transformer and capacitors. If you turn the amp on and then back off, the light goes out immediately. But if the amp has been on for a while and then turned off, the light stays on for several minutes. This leads me to believe that only after this amp is fully warmed up does it perform up to its capabilities.

 

[BigBallz]

Yes! The HEAVY transformers that make some amps so heavy.

Reminds me of my Aragon stereo amp at home. There's a green light in the front that stays lit as long as there is power left in the transformer and capacitors. If you turn the amp on and then back off, the light goes out immediately. But if the amp has been on for a while and then turned off, the light stays on for several minutes. This leads me to believe that only after this amp is fully warmed up does it perform up to its capabilities.

That power light is hooked up to the big mains caps.....it is such a small load, (led in most cases) that it takes a bit to discharge the few volts it draws....those big caps can hold hundreds of "reserve power" volts.

 

[tadawson]

Filaments are up to temp in a few minutes but I've always wondered about them big ol' chunks of iron.

Short of getting to plasma type temps (the sun, for instance) magnetic fields are pretty much unaffected by temps, as would be the case with a transformer. Guys, a transformer is a PASSIVE device - about as sophisticated as a ROCK! Nothing more than wire wound around iron . . . . .

- Tim

 

[tadawson]

Exactly!! I have an HDTV and in the manual it states, "Let unit warm up for 30 mins before attempting auto convergence adjustment".

And, let me throw another wrench into this discussion...do you think an amp running on 110 volts ac...would sound any different than the same on 120 volts ac?

If the power supplies are quality, and regulated, then no - the amp internals will never see the diff. If not regulated, you will just get a little less power out.

- Tim

 

[tadawson]

Absolutly!! I pm'ed Bob. He's a pretty cool guy. But I have experienced differences in sound, ( not imaginary) between warm electronics and cold. Mainly in the high end stereo arena...probably the higher frequencys are easier to descern than low bass notes.

It's funny though, Ampeg themselves state to let the SVT warm up for 20-30 mins before any adjustments are to be made...however many people don't belive any difference between cold and warm can be heard...one guy even said it's a poorly designed system if you can hear a difference.

I look at it this way...an automobile is designed to operate warmed up. It behaves differently when started cold and driven off. So do electronics. They behave differently when cold as vs warm.

When my bass amp needs to vaporize petroleum to work, then I will buy this argument. Since there are no temperature dependent volatile mixtures in any amp I have ever seen (never mind the liberal use of the name "Diesel" in bass gear . . ) I think this comparison is without merit . . . .

- Tim

 

[tadawson]

Exactly!! I have an HDTV and in the manual it states, "Let unit warm up for 30 mins before attempting auto convergence adjustment".

And, let me throw another wrench into this discussion...do you think an amp running on 110 volts ac...would sound any different than the same on 120 volts ac?

Once again, to reiterate my former point. That is simply the reference point that the mfg. used to make the alignment procedure. It does not necessarily imply a preceptible change . . . . .

- Tim