- Thread starter GassieBall
- Start date
Yeah, I was gonna suggest gassing him or something
Ah! That would be a job for the drummer then.
GassieBall
Well-known member
Yes, I could gas him. But I'd only do it after the guitar solo! Just kidding. Thanks for all the pointers. He's too nice of a guy to dump him. I'm gonna try to change him. I sound like a battered girlfriend. I'll make him put the toilet seat down. Really.
OK, so I tilted his amp, moved it to the opposite corner and fired it up at his ears away from the rest of us.
Here's the big kicker!!! He plays through a MUSIC MAN HD-212. This is the first time I've ever said that I wish a Music Man product was not as good as it is. That 212 can crank. And it's like three times heavier than my bass rig.
So I know little about guitar amps. I looked at it and saw that it has, of course, two 12 inchers, and it has two speaker outs at 4 and 8 ohms. It's connected to the 4 ohm now so I suppose that the speakers are in parallel and are 8 ohms each.
There is no preamp out so I cannot hook him up to headphones so he could be as loud as he wants in his own little world. Can anyone think of a way I could use the speaker outs in the correct combination to get a monitor to fire back at him without blowing something?
Practice is later today. Crossing my fingers.
OK, so I tilted his amp, moved it to the opposite corner and fired it up at his ears away from the rest of us.
Here's the big kicker!!! He plays through a MUSIC MAN HD-212. This is the first time I've ever said that I wish a Music Man product was not as good as it is. That 212 can crank. And it's like three times heavier than my bass rig.
So I know little about guitar amps. I looked at it and saw that it has, of course, two 12 inchers, and it has two speaker outs at 4 and 8 ohms. It's connected to the 4 ohm now so I suppose that the speakers are in parallel and are 8 ohms each.
There is no preamp out so I cannot hook him up to headphones so he could be as loud as he wants in his own little world. Can anyone think of a way I could use the speaker outs in the correct combination to get a monitor to fire back at him without blowing something?
Practice is later today. Crossing my fingers.
He plays through a MUSIC MAN HD-212. This is the first time I've ever said that I wish a Music Man product was not as good as it is. That 212 can crank. And it's like three times heavier than my bass rig.
Pah! Practice amp!
Jimmyb
Well-known member
If it's too loud that it's dominating the whole mix, face it towards him and angle it upwards.
From the pics I've dug up on the interweb, it looks as though the cabinets are open back, so there will still be acoustic spill to give volume to the mix, plus there should be relflected sound from the rear wall (unless it's heavy curtain). There may be a slight reduction in perceived volume of the really high frequencies (could be a good thing) but overall, it should be ok.
Failing that, sit him down and talk to him about it.
Then gas him
From the pics I've dug up on the interweb, it looks as though the cabinets are open back, so there will still be acoustic spill to give volume to the mix, plus there should be relflected sound from the rear wall (unless it's heavy curtain). There may be a slight reduction in perceived volume of the really high frequencies (could be a good thing) but overall, it should be ok.
Failing that, sit him down and talk to him about it.
Then gas him
slukather
Well-known member
The only thing l'd suggest is, just talk to him about it, but more than likely, he'll turn down for a little while, then he will turn up eventually.
Good luck with it though.
Scott.
Good luck with it though.
Scott.
drewbixcubed
Moderator
My vote is to tell him your concern, and have him try turning down. However, also work with him to find the best spot to hear himself in your practice room. Unless he has a full stack, being close to the amp hardly ever is the loudest spot in the room. If the amp is facing him at a slight angle (to take away any brittle highs) from about 5-10 feet away, I garantee he will hear himself better. Just make sure no one else is in that line of fire!
Lucious
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2005
- Messages
- 215
Loudness
Yeah, this is an old classic! hahahaha 40 YEARS I have heard every excuse etc etc etc.. Its ALWAYS the guitar players fault! NOT! Just the word Marshall makes people think you are already playing tooo loud. hahaha
Now, I HATE it when anything is too loud as I have suffered tinnitus since 1985. I got it from headphones in the studios. Try havin those on your head for 12 HOURS a day, 6 days a week for decades before there were individual mixes and levels. When I was young playin in clubs or even school dances it was the ****ing drummers Cymbals that determined how loud WE played. Those fried my ears as well cause on a small stage you are standing right next to the cymbals and that frequency will quickly close your hearing down so you THINK you need to turn up to hear yourself. Thats is a lie of course but when you are young you think you know everything. Basss amps eat up alot of freqency as well and they have a larger throw so when a Bass player is standing on top of his amp he cant hear himself and turns up. catch 22 guys.
My suggestion is to do a "soundcheck" where drums start, add Bass, then Keys ( if you have them) or rhythm guitar and then lead guitar and then you know where everyones levels are and if ya REALLY wanna bust a nut go write down the levels on EVERYONES amps and after the first set see if they have moved! The guilty party has to load out everyones gear and buy the beer. Lets see who stays honest. hahahaha
seriously, its not that hard to give and take. Might try dynamics on the gig, have the rest of the band bring the levels down naturally and let the soloist play and chances are no one will turn up..unless they are dick! haha
Happy holidays
Lucious
Yeah, this is an old classic! hahahaha 40 YEARS I have heard every excuse etc etc etc.. Its ALWAYS the guitar players fault! NOT! Just the word Marshall makes people think you are already playing tooo loud. hahaha
Now, I HATE it when anything is too loud as I have suffered tinnitus since 1985. I got it from headphones in the studios. Try havin those on your head for 12 HOURS a day, 6 days a week for decades before there were individual mixes and levels. When I was young playin in clubs or even school dances it was the ****ing drummers Cymbals that determined how loud WE played. Those fried my ears as well cause on a small stage you are standing right next to the cymbals and that frequency will quickly close your hearing down so you THINK you need to turn up to hear yourself. Thats is a lie of course but when you are young you think you know everything. Basss amps eat up alot of freqency as well and they have a larger throw so when a Bass player is standing on top of his amp he cant hear himself and turns up. catch 22 guys.
My suggestion is to do a "soundcheck" where drums start, add Bass, then Keys ( if you have them) or rhythm guitar and then lead guitar and then you know where everyones levels are and if ya REALLY wanna bust a nut go write down the levels on EVERYONES amps and after the first set see if they have moved! The guilty party has to load out everyones gear and buy the beer. Lets see who stays honest. hahahaha
seriously, its not that hard to give and take. Might try dynamics on the gig, have the rest of the band bring the levels down naturally and let the soloist play and chances are no one will turn up..unless they are dick! haha
Happy holidays
Lucious
I have found that a medium weighted blunt object such as a mic stand or lighting tree up side the hide has a rather immediate effect.......LOL!
All jokes aside, have them try inears if possible or if not, move them AWAY from their speaker about 6 feet or so if it is a stack and if it is a combo, set it up on the floor just like a wedge and tilt it back at the same angle that you would use for wedges and you should be good to go...I like those spiked feet that you can install on the sides of the cab and then tilt it back...Good Luck, sometimes this can be a difficult thing to overcome! You may want to get some earplugs for yourself if it gets out of hand....even if the guitarist wants to (or already has) ruin their hearing there is no excuse for you not to protect yourself...
Peace,
T
All jokes aside, have them try inears if possible or if not, move them AWAY from their speaker about 6 feet or so if it is a stack and if it is a combo, set it up on the floor just like a wedge and tilt it back at the same angle that you would use for wedges and you should be good to go...I like those spiked feet that you can install on the sides of the cab and then tilt it back...Good Luck, sometimes this can be a difficult thing to overcome! You may want to get some earplugs for yourself if it gets out of hand....even if the guitarist wants to (or already has) ruin their hearing there is no excuse for you not to protect yourself...
Peace,
T
TNT
Well-known member
Thanks Luke for the input!! Hopefully it'll help other "rock" musicians out there. As a guitar player myself, I often hear that as well. And confirming what you said earlier, it's really most often an oversight, but it should only come from non-players, e.g., listeners, club owners, etc. . . As you said it is almost impossible to do a reasonable sound check "on stage". This must be conducted at a normal (typical listener) distance from the point of output (stage).
And, generally speaking, if the guitar is "above" the drums, then it just may be too loud. Drums (being acoustic in nature) with no volume control (other than drummer dynamics) this instrument inherently sets the volume level in a non-mic'ed situation - whether we like it or not. A drummer can only hit harder (increase level) or softer (decrease volume level). Everyone else in the band must work around this centerpiece of volume control. Volume level is set by the drummer!!
And, generally speaking, if the guitar is "above" the drums, then it just may be too loud. Drums (being acoustic in nature) with no volume control (other than drummer dynamics) this instrument inherently sets the volume level in a non-mic'ed situation - whether we like it or not. A drummer can only hit harder (increase level) or softer (decrease volume level). Everyone else in the band must work around this centerpiece of volume control. Volume level is set by the drummer!!
slukather
Well-known member
koogie2k
Well-known member
Luke's advice is probably the best and what I would recommend.
My problem child "loud guy" was an easy fix. I asked him if he would like to go deep sea fishing. His amp was turned down...
I am gonna take Luke's suggestion and write down the settings....this is gonna be fun! I predict I won't move my gear for the next year or so....hehehehe....
My problem child "loud guy" was an easy fix. I asked him if he would like to go deep sea fishing. His amp was turned down...
I am gonna take Luke's suggestion and write down the settings....this is gonna be fun! I predict I won't move my gear for the next year or so....hehehehe....
Lazybite
Well-known member
I have the opposite problem... I have a drummer who keeps asking me to turn down... but then I can't hear myself in the mix...
Tim O'Sullivan
Well-known member
AnthonyD
Well-known member
<- Adopting the "Sound-check, level-out, write everything down and validate later" approach. Awesome!
pauldogx
Well-known member
+1 on what Lucious said about the cymbals!!!!!!! They always seemed to be right at ear levels on small stages. I had develped some slight tinnitus after gigging and guitar teching for about 10 years straight. The Doc I went to was a musician too and pointed out the cymbals as the culprit. Luckily following his advice and protecting my ears-----after several years of not constantly gigging---alot of my problems disappeared---but I was VERY lucky.
tommyindelaware
Well-known member
i add a 212 extention cab to my guitar rig....& position it in front of the myself on the floor slanted at my face.....like a regular monitor. a regular monitor w/ the horn disconnected w/ work too. & never set up w/ an amp facing someone else besides the user. ive seen bands set up w/ there amps pointing sideways in an attemp to keep the stage volume on stage. but this usually results in the guy on the other sisde of the stage hearing more of you than you do.....starting another never ending gotta turn myself up cycle as the night goes on.
GassieBall
Well-known member
Hey guys,
Thanks for chiming in. I love the input level idea and will try this on Sunday. So what I've done so far that has sort of worked:
1. Moved his amp further away from him angled up and blocked the back (it's an open amp)
2. Moved the amp to the opposite side of the basement so he's the only one in the line of fire.
3. Asked him, "Um, John, you're kinda way louder than all of us, I was wondering why?" "Well, I just can't hear myself too well and I can't get in the groove." "Cause you're drowing out the mix and others can't hear themselves." "I know, I know..."
4. So I split his output with a "Y" and ran it into a little Korg Pandora and gave him some headphones and cranked it up and turned his amp down: pure heaven. I know he doesn't like the headphones all that much, but perhaps I can get some more comfortable ones.
5. I'm talking to one of my ENT friends who's gonna set me up with some fitted musicians ear plugs (about $130) to protect myself.
6. I have my Halothane ready as a backup.
Dunno what were gonna do live, but I cross that bridge later.
Thanks for chiming in. I love the input level idea and will try this on Sunday. So what I've done so far that has sort of worked:
1. Moved his amp further away from him angled up and blocked the back (it's an open amp)
2. Moved the amp to the opposite side of the basement so he's the only one in the line of fire.
3. Asked him, "Um, John, you're kinda way louder than all of us, I was wondering why?" "Well, I just can't hear myself too well and I can't get in the groove." "Cause you're drowing out the mix and others can't hear themselves." "I know, I know..."
4. So I split his output with a "Y" and ran it into a little Korg Pandora and gave him some headphones and cranked it up and turned his amp down: pure heaven. I know he doesn't like the headphones all that much, but perhaps I can get some more comfortable ones.
5. I'm talking to one of my ENT friends who's gonna set me up with some fitted musicians ear plugs (about $130) to protect myself.
6. I have my Halothane ready as a backup.
Dunno what were gonna do live, but I cross that bridge later.
