Have you guys heard of this company. they make these frets that are supposed to help better intonate you guitar? True Temperament™ Guitar necks! its a pretty interesting system they have? I've also heard that Steve Vai is getting all of his frets done like this.
- Thread starter JohnnyD19
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petruccirocks02
Well-known member
I've seen those before, its a pretty neat concept. Steve Vai does indeed have a couple Jem's with those frets. I saw it on a guitar world video.
-Phil
Colin
Well-known member
looks like Ed Roman did the fret work! 
Hmmmmmm.......
Call me sceptical but is this really necessary?
I've been listening to all kinds of guitar music for as long as I can remember, and never once have I found myself thinking 'Well that was nice but that would have sounded so much better if only each fret on that guitar had been perfectly intonated.'
Maybe it's just my ears are not good enough but isn't this a case of solving a 'problem' that doesn't really need fixing?
Call me sceptical but is this really necessary?
I've been listening to all kinds of guitar music for as long as I can remember, and never once have I found myself thinking 'Well that was nice but that would have sounded so much better if only each fret on that guitar had been perfectly intonated.'
Maybe it's just my ears are not good enough but isn't this a case of solving a 'problem' that doesn't really need fixing?
DrKev
Moderator
It's not necessary, this is specialist stuff that, really, I can only see someone like Steve Vai going for. Remember, once you get away from standard equal temperament, things like that will only work well in particular keys. In other keys it'll sound horrible. That's the whole point of equal temperament tuning, it'll sound equally in tune or out of tune no matter what key you play in - no need to retune for each song. (Imagine retuning a piano between tunes!)
Take a browse through these links if you feel up to it...
Equal Temperament Tuning
why tuining is so difficult
The Well Tempered Scale
Take a browse through these links if you feel up to it...
Equal Temperament Tuning
why tuining is so difficult
The Well Tempered Scale
pjc812
Well-known member
Well, I don't know. When a piano is tuned, certain notes are always tuned flat and certain notes are always tuned sharp. As the octaves ascend they are also tuned sharp and as they descend they are tuned flat. This is a concept called Octave Stretching. We have Bach to thank for this type of tuning (and his compositions The Well Tempered Clavier - extremely difficult stuff some of it).
The Fan Frett system seems to be an interesting idea, as well as the one that was presented here. This system seems it would only work in one tuning but I imagine you could play in any key that you wanted. It would be the same as tuning a piano. It looks like it could make string bends tricky however.
I've seen people do this on period instruments as well. Nylon strings are many times more finicky than steel strings and darned near impossible to play in tune some days due to weather.
The most interesting frett system I've encountered was on a 10 course lute (19 stringed monster). The fretts are dried pieces of leather tied around the neck. The bottom six courses are tuned to the same intervals as a guitar. When playing in the key of D (with the F# on the high E string being out of tune of course) you simply move the frett to compensate for the out of tune note. That was kind of fun.
The Fan Frett system seems to be an interesting idea, as well as the one that was presented here. This system seems it would only work in one tuning but I imagine you could play in any key that you wanted. It would be the same as tuning a piano. It looks like it could make string bends tricky however.
I've seen people do this on period instruments as well. Nylon strings are many times more finicky than steel strings and darned near impossible to play in tune some days due to weather.
The most interesting frett system I've encountered was on a 10 course lute (19 stringed monster). The fretts are dried pieces of leather tied around the neck. The bottom six courses are tuned to the same intervals as a guitar. When playing in the key of D (with the F# on the high E string being out of tune of course) you simply move the frett to compensate for the out of tune note. That was kind of fun.
fbecir
Well-known member
If they don't sell the well tempered Ears with their frets, the system is useless ...
Come on guys, it perhaps makes sense on a classical instrument, but when you play with distortion, what's the point ???
And if you play with a drummer, nobody can hear you, so you can be out of tune ...
Come on guys, it perhaps makes sense on a classical instrument, but when you play with distortion, what's the point ???
And if you play with a drummer, nobody can hear you, so you can be out of tune ...
Tim O'Sullivan
Well-known member
Again, solving a problem that is not there.... My EBMM play perfectly in tune.
Maybe it was set up by ex council wokers , that would explain your explaination
TNT
Well-known member
In all honesty, for an electric guitar (if it's a quality piece like MM); sliding saddles and/or compensated nut to intonate is all you really need. Because a guitar by its nature cannot be intonated perfectly with straight frets.
Each "individual" guitar would need personalized factory attention and have all three: curved frets, sliding saddles and compensated nuts to perfectly intonate it. And, once you do: don't touch that truss rod or it's ALL off!! or, at the sign of even a little fret wear it's also off!!
So, in conclusion, as mentioned above regarding distortion; if you buy a MM guitar and use distortion YOU NEED NOT BE ANY CLOSER!!! And, if need be "just bend the dang string in tune while you play!!!!
Each "individual" guitar would need personalized factory attention and have all three: curved frets, sliding saddles and compensated nuts to perfectly intonate it. And, once you do: don't touch that truss rod or it's ALL off!! or, at the sign of even a little fret wear it's also off!!
So, in conclusion, as mentioned above regarding distortion; if you buy a MM guitar and use distortion YOU NEED NOT BE ANY CLOSER!!! And, if need be "just bend the dang string in tune while you play!!!!
Tim O'Sullivan
Well-known member
Maybe it was set up by ex council wokers , that would explain your explaination
Working for the council, I tend to agree!
Working for the council, I tend to agree!
Same here!
As somebody coming from a keyboard background, I am pretty familiar with the idea of temperaments. I think this is a cool system.
A lot of people think it's about being in tune, but that's not it - an EBMM can be tuned pretty well to equal temperament, but there is simply no way to tune to any well-tempered temperament. Since most people use electrics to play straightforward rock (or similar genres) it's not a problem. But if you happen to want to play with an instrument that is also in another temperament, there are some keys you just can't play well - and since it typically makes the most difference with chords, distortion actually exacerbates the issue (by turning "beating" into atonal garbage), it doesn't mask it.
A lot of people think it's about being in tune, but that's not it - an EBMM can be tuned pretty well to equal temperament, but there is simply no way to tune to any well-tempered temperament. Since most people use electrics to play straightforward rock (or similar genres) it's not a problem. But if you happen to want to play with an instrument that is also in another temperament, there are some keys you just can't play well - and since it typically makes the most difference with chords, distortion actually exacerbates the issue (by turning "beating" into atonal garbage), it doesn't mask it.
DrKev
Moderator
Actually, that's not quite correct. If a piano is tuned entirely equal tempered, the harmonics of the bass strings will be out of tune with the fundamentals of the high strings. That's why the piano uses stretched tuning, lower the bass strings slightly and raise the high strings slightly so that it all sounds in tune with itself.
there are many ways to tune a piano. not just this temperment or that temperment. unless its specified, tuners usually put it in equal temp.
it is noticeable if you are experienced in hearing the difference in tuning. it takes me forever to adjust to A=415 when i play (not guitar) with renaissance ensembles. also, several piano friends of mine hates it when conductors tune their orchestra to a=442, while the piano is at 440, you know, to "brighten up" the orchestra a little bit
then again, there are people who never have their electric guitar in tune with anything, not even with itself... so, it just depends on how much it bothers you.
it is noticeable if you are experienced in hearing the difference in tuning. it takes me forever to adjust to A=415 when i play (not guitar) with renaissance ensembles. also, several piano friends of mine hates it when conductors tune their orchestra to a=442, while the piano is at 440, you know, to "brighten up" the orchestra a little bit
then again, there are people who never have their electric guitar in tune with anything, not even with itself... so, it just depends on how much it bothers you.
Norrin Radd
Well-known member
[NR searches desperately and in vain for deer in headlights smiley and wonders aloud, "What Would Jimi Do???]
Guitarburetor
Well-known member
Throughout our research on the compensated nut, it became rather obvious that this would be the ultimate way to achieve the most perfect tuning, but it seemed impractical to make and would probably be more difficult to play. Looking at the offset patterns in the frets, it basically follows what we are doing with the nut, but has the advantage of compensating each fret individually. It seems to me that their frets could be much straighter if they used a compensated nut and fine tuned each fret by bending them similarly, but to a lesser extent.
Danserrano
Well-known member
i agree with Aj. When i saw the guitar world vid the first time i was like wth! If anyone needs it, its def vai though the man works that trem like a mad man. I'm sure we've all heard em play out of tune.....it's an interesting theory to say the least but not for me lol.
