Off Topic PA too Dang Heavy

[T-bone]

So I play in this 7 (sometimes 8 and even 9) piece Cajun band. We're the local favorites and end up gigging a lot. The dancers love coming out and pretty much support us whenever we play. Which is why we're in demand because everyone wants us and our dancers.

The problem is sound. Our old PA is just too heavy. Those Peavy 15's up on stands always takes two of us to set up. They're bulky, and with monitors, stands, cables, etc.....it takes more than a pickup to transport everything. Plus, once we get there, it's at least an hour set up time (not to mention tear down at the end of the gig). Sometimes I feel like I'm just transporting gear around with a break in the middle to play some music.

As we get older, we should be getting wiser. For my own gear, I've gone with Markbass because of tone and weight. The weight being almost as important as tone. My question to all you knuckleheads is.....is there a Markbass equivalent for sound? Have any of you moved to a Bose style system? I know adouglas is big on them. I've heard they're good for indoor, small rooms. However, we play mostly larger dance halls, where sound is a challenge no matter what.

Thanks y'all. I appreciate any input.

tbone

 

[five7]

The new renkus heinz system is lighter and can be setup by one person. We just demoed it at our church and I was impressed by the sound and ease of setup. It will lock together if you want to fly it or dolly the whole stack at once.

 

[Holdsg]

My band plays smaller rooms, so I don't know if this would work for you, but we've been having good sound with two QSC K-12 powered speakers for mains and two QSC K-10s for front-of-stage monitors, thru an Allen & Heath ZED14 mixer. The mains have an extra bass boost to them (depending on the room acoustics) to kinda replace the subwoofer, and are light enough for one person to hoist on the tripod stands, and the entire PA setup, along with my 2 instruments (keyboard, bass amp, and bass) and all the other crap you need for a gig fits into the back of my Honda Pilot.

 

[LawDaddy]

The self-powered QSC's are definitely handy. A few clubs I have played recently have them as the house sound, as well. Hard to get a bad sound out of them. I have the larger 3-way mains pair that takes the place of a van-full of equipment.

We just got some gas-powered PA stands that lift automatically, haven't tried them yet.

 

[armybass]

My band uses the Bose L1. We are all retired or ex US Army Bandsmen.... we all have loads of civilian gigging under our collective belts..... In short we have lugged some dang heavy gear for a long time. We aint doing it anymore. when we have a small gig, the guitarist and I plug straight into the L1 and two vocal mics. Normal gigs, we use two Bose L1's and mic up everything. Very light, very portable and sounds amazing....not sure how well it would work for a 7-9 pc band though.

 

[Aussie Mark]

That's why I sold my PA a few years ago and am now more than happy to pay other people to supply and operate PA at our gigs

 

[adouglas]

My band also uses the Bose L1. We're a five-piece, sometimes six.

We use no conventional amps, as in no backline -- no separate guitar, bass or keyboard amps. Just the L1s. No cabinets, no monitors, no equipment racks, no speaker stands, none of it.

ALL of our amplification, plus my basses, plus other gear, fits in the back of my Honda Fit. There's still room for a passenger.

The heaviest piece weighs less than 30 lbs and is a bit bigger than a breadbox.

The strength of this gear is its clarity. It's plenty loud for most uses (the L1 I plug into, when configured as shown in the video below, is over 1000 watts) and can handle most rooms easily.

tbone, where are you? PM me and I'll hook you up with a live demo if you're interested.

Take a look… what you see is all there is. There are no in-ear monitors… the L1 does all of it. Sound quality on the video is meh… it was recorded with a garden-variety video cam. It sounds better live.

 

[keko]

Hire physical workers, like we do occasionally!

Or get a new lightweight PA support!

 

[T-bone]

Thanks for the responses. I certainly like the idea of just hiring a sound guy and never having to worry about it. Then again, finding the right sound person who is just as dependable as, oh, say, the drummer, might prove to be a challenge. I kid, I love my drummer.

So adouglas, from the looks of things, you've got 3 towers and lots of sub woofers. From what little I know (and believe me I know very little), that's over 10 grand worth of gear. Yeeouch!

Yesterday, after my little rant, I stopped in at a local GC to check out PA's. I walk in, head straight to pro sound, spend about 20 minutes, then walk out. Not one person approached me to see if I needed any help. I guess the three of them were too busy with something else behind the counter. So, off I go to GC #2. There, I get immediate help (thank you Nate). He was great, however, sure didn't like the Bose stuff. I had to order him (nicely of course) to turn it on. He really likes the Yamaha gear (which I did too) however we're back to powered mains, powered monitors, etc.

adouglas, it's difficult to tell how "full" your sound is. That's a hard thing to capture on those small video cameras. Do you really feel your sound matches that of some powered Mackies? Especially if you throw in a sub woofer? I love the fact you can load it all in your honda though. And no other amps? WoW.

I'm out here on the left coast, up where the women are strong and the beer is beautiful (or vice versa), otherwise known as Portland (the other Portland) Oregon (Or ee gun). I'd love to know more, but only if it''s less than 10 grand. We're not that good.

tbone

 

[adouglas]

The true comparison is PA PLUS bass rig PLUS guitar rig PLUS the other guitar rig…. etc.

Add up the cost of ALL your other gear and it's actually not that far off.

The best way to keep costs down is do what armybass does… just get two and use them as powered monitors.

I'll PM you about getting a demo. I've got inside info.

 

[DTG]

I use Kme, yes it's big and heavy but the sound it perfect plus we hire 2 roadies for lifting it.

I tried the Bose rig and it is ok for small gigs but 1 k without back line won't cut it in big gigs and forget about putting a 9 piece through it. To me it has no separation and vocals suck in the mix. The but the biggest factor is cost you could spend a lot less and get a lot more.

The best sound you will get is with power amps crossover and speakers. It's prob what you are using now. You can't get that clarity and definition from powered speakers with built in crossovers. your band is busy and people like you so be careful messing with your sound

However mackie, Yamaha, Ev all do lightweight self power speakers which are really good it just depends on how fussy you are about your sound.

If your sound is good then maybe leave it along and look at getting a roadie in whos job it is to do all the heavy work.

D

 

[7broccos]

Nice video Andy and some sweet funk ............ oh yeah PA does sound nice

 

[adouglas]

I tried the Bose rig and it is ok for small gigs but 1 k without back line won't cut it in big gigs and forget about putting a 9 piece through it. To me it has no separation and vocals suck in the mix.

I agree about really big gigs/really loud volume. That's not the purpose. Rooms up to 500 at volumes where people aren't cringing, okay… but a metal/hard rock band should not use this. I would argue that anything as small and lightweight as my rig isn't likely to get it done for those situations either, regardless of who makes it.

BTW, 1K is just my rig. When you add all the systems together it's equivalent to a mid-range PA in power. We have to turn it down far more often than we have to turn it up.

Separation and vocals in the mix? To each his own. My experience has been different and we've gotten lots of compliments on our sound. I think the video speaks for itself… this is just a guy standing 50 feet away with a handheld camera. I don't know about you, but the vocals sound good and clear to me. What's missing is the fullness of the live sound.

The point is to be happy with your choice. The best way to find out about ANY gear is to try it yourself. You didn't like it, I did… which says a lot more about what we're looking for than it does about the gear. Internet opinions -- both pro and con -- are worth exactly what you pay for them.

If I had my druthers I'd hire a sound guy too and not have to worry about any of it -- especially lugging the gear. But we make a hundred a head on a good day and we can't afford another mouth to feed.

 

[DTG]

As you said AD to each his own. Btw I don't play in a heavy metal band, it's all weddings and corp work.

I used a a Bose rig in my last band for ten years and they are still using tje same rig it was 802's and 402's Bose amps and crossover and it was second to none. We tried the new Bose gear and just could not make the switch.

The op put this up looking for opinions just because you dont agree with mine does not make you or me right. about the only thing we will agree on is "go try out gear for yourself "

Ad your band is worth more than 100 quid a head, trust me ireland is going through the worst financial mess and we are still out 3-4 nights a week. If a gig venue or event wants a band like yours they should expect to pay proper money to get it.

Sorry dude, When i said the vocals suck in the mix i wasnt talking about your clip. Mind you the bv's are smothering the lead vocals, in my worthless Internet opinion it's because either the camera is closer to the male vocals and picking it up more or the female vocal needs more in the rig, or he needs less.
It's prob just the camera position but could be a million things.
She is a great singer, fantastic energy.

D

 

[Aussie Mark]

we make a hundred a head on a good day and we can't afford another mouth to feed.

$100 each would barely cover shoes, wouldn't it? It must be a tough market over there - in our cover band we won't get out of bed for less than $200 each after expenses, and we still get 3-5 bookings per month. Of course, the pubs and clubs here all have slot machines, so it only takes a few gambling audience members for the venue to cover our fee LOL

 

[five7]

Pay is the same as it has been for 35 years here in colorado, even though the price of gear goes up and up.

 

[DTG]

I pay my guys €300 a night plus travel and food etc, but we don't travel that often.

 

[nurnay]

Pay depends on the venue. Casinos pay us a LOT more than bars, obviously. We can pull $100/ea at a bar, at least double that at a casino, and sometimes that includes hotel stay, food, and some drinks.

 

[smokey]

Encountered this situation back in late 2008 / early 2009 when I was searching for a PA that would be portable, lighter in weight and handle any wedding / function based gig I could throw at it (from a duo to 5 piece band) without running out of power. As a first step of trying to protect my upper back (from previous issues), I bought a pair of Hercules Winch up stands (I think the model number is SS700 or SS700B). These are great for being able to load the speaker on a much lower height and then wind them up to the appropriate height. I went with a pair of EV ZXA5's (Powered 15's) - 1250w a side (1000 to 15' and 250 to horn) and weighing in under 25kg (55lbs). These speakers (on their own) have done gigs to 700 people with plenty of juice in the tank and never flinching. They have a full clear crisp sound to them whereas IMO other plastic housed speakers can sound boxey next to these. I found this to be the best setup for using only a single pair of speakers without a Sub. The other alternative was to go some with some smaller 10's or 12's with a Sub, but I was trying to have the most efficient rig for setup / packup and also fit into a wagon for transporting with my bass gear. Cannot recommend the EV's ZXA5's highly enough and even now a few years later, they are still going strong (even if I've stepped away from the gigging I was doing). Another great bit of gear that I found in trying to prevent injury from load-in / load-out was to buy a V-Cart from Gruv Gear about a year ago. This trolley is awesome and don't know why I didn't search out and buy one sooner. It is built for muso's. Hope that info helps
Cheers

 

[DTG]

Ev zxa's are a class speaker. I use two of them as stage Monitors, way to good for that but gives me crystal clear vocals.