Question Pedal Users: How do you deal with them for live performances?

[Jack FFR1846]

So I've used my little digitech RP250 for a couple years now and it's convienant and I can set up the sounds I want for all the songs in advance and just click to the sound in order of the songs by setting up in advance. But I'm not all that happy with the sounds anymore. Other guitarists who play on alternate weeks use a Line 6 Live XT and I've played with it and have always found it totally confusing.

So I'm considering doing separate pedals. But I do set up very, very different sounds from one song to the next.....and I don't get a lot of time to switch between songs sometimes. I may end a song with some fat chord that rings and then in less than a second, switch the sound on the RP250, switch pickup and start the next song with a lead.

I'd love better sound, but I can't be hitting 6 pedals between songs.

What do you guys do?

 

[slukather]

I take it you're in a covers band.

I'm in an originals, I have at my feet, the amp channel switcher (3 Channels and separate boost for each channel), a tube screamer, wah, volume pedal and tuner. And a delay through the effects loop (which l just leave on one setting), although my sound doesn't change drastically, at times it's like tap dancing. But l've decided to go for this setup over my other one, my rack setup controlled by a midi controller, like yours l press one button and it changes the preset/channel on the amp etc, but more can go wrong and it's harder to fix when on stage. At the end of the day it's what the guitarist wants to use, what easiest and what sounds best for the band.

But it sounds separate pedals wouldn't be for you.

Scottie.

 

[Gio_Force_One]

I have used the same setup for 10 years or so maybe switching a pedal in and out here and there.
guitar into a ernie ball wah , then a rocktron talkbox, then tuner , ts 808 tubescreamer , custom built tubscreamer, custom bulit distortion , visual sound h2o , ibanez chorus, danelectro trem., mxr flange, boss delay , and i swich some out sometimes i have an envelope filter i want to put in there. I built a box to keep them all in and all wired together just plug in and go. i tried a vox tonelab for a bout a week and just did not like it , and i have a gnx3 that i use to practice at home with but would never use it live.
I guess i am just so used to hitting pedals i don't even think about it anymore. It got easier the more i used the board if i switch out a pedal that screws me up at times.
I definetly like the sound of individual pedals then multieffects. do tou know anyone with a bunch of pedals maybe you can try it out and see if you like it or not.
good luck with everything

 

[ScoobySteve]

I'd say the most efficient, albeit most expensive way, is to get a rack switcher with multiple loops and have a MIDI foot controller to control pedal combinations via banks/presets.

I know, it's pricey, rather real pricey, but man I used to use the Eric Johnson setup, where you have a different set of signal paths separated by two A/B boxes for 3 different sounds, and the tap dancing routing IN and OUT of song just wasn't for me. The switcher and ground control Voodoo Labs makes is a pricey en-total, but the convenience pays off in the long haul. You don't have to use a "BUNDLE" type FX unit like from TC or Line6, etc, you can still use the pedals you love ubt control them with more freedom and convenience. It takes up tons of space, and forces you to buy a rack, amongst other gear, but it seems like the most efficient way to deal with your problem. Definitely not the cheapest.

Right now I'm on a ElevenRack via FCB1010, even live. Having the one step away from "desired settings" is just too useful for me. Especially now that I'm in Korea, travelling and moving around quite a bit. But I must say, I do miss having my TC Nova System and a good old tube amp.

My .02

 

[Norrin Radd]

To answer the OP's question - I have a number of different OD/Dist pedals on my board, one phaser, one chorus, one delay (or NO chorus and two delays a lot), and a tuner. I find that covers just about anything. I use a guitar with an SSH setup so I only use one guitar at a gig. I end up doing a bit of tap dancing, but its definitely worth it. If you find you need more than one (or maybe two) settings on any type of modulation effect - I'd say forget about individual pedals - not the right tool for that job.

For me, if I can't get the sound I want from what I have in front me with just stomping - than I've got a problem - and that problem is ME! You have to remember that live the only person who is going to hear subtle changes in your effect settings is probably going to be YOU! The audience could care less. That schlub at the bar ordering his 14th Bud Light and hitting on the hot chick near the back who has no interest in him cannot discern any difference. Nor does he care. Just as long as your loud enough to drown out his getting rejected. That's all that matters to him (and most every one else there too).

If you're messing too much with pedal settings during the gig - you're gonna miss out on the fun of the gig. Recording is where those subtleties matter - not live. Unless, of course, you actually are David Gilmour. In which case - you rule!

A semi-recent version of my board so you can see (it changes about every two weeks for variety in delays and ODs):

 

[Jack FFR1846]

Yah....so I'm in a church band and the church itself has a full rack setup for amps, so I go from whatever I want for signal effects (which is now my RP250) into a DI box that's off to the rack. There's a sound board in the back, so of course, they turn me and all other guitars down and turn up the vocalists and drums (typical sound guys....I'm joking....well....I wish I were joking). Anyways, that's both good and bad because I put the guitar in a shoulder strap soft case and even with a laptop for controlling the RP250, I have only 2 small carry bags to lug in/out.

I've never looked at rack systems, but I'll check them out....although it does sound expensive. I don't think tap dancing on individual pedals will work for me. I can use a ZZ top sound for the first song, a U2 Edge sound for the second and an acoustic guitar sound for the third..... And it changes every week with about 2 days advanced notice....lately only 3 songs, but up to 6.

It does sound like for now, as long as I don't hate the sound I get, I have a reasonable way to get what I want. We video the performances and put them on the web so members of the band can go and view them later (and we watch them at future rehersals to see what can be improved) and it took that joke about the sound guy turning us down and showed it was reality sometimes. I gotta use the Steve Morse tricks to get my leads in there....... Time to look for an attenuator or gain boost pedal.

Thanks for the responses. I really didn't know what the heck rack units even were.

....and Greg....I gotta laugh as I'm in the midst of learning "Hey You".... (for myself) right now......and I can tell you that I am definately NOT David Gilmour!

 

[Danserrano]

hey jack i play in a church band as well and can honestly tell u like norrin all my needs r met with just a few pedals. I use an egnater mod 50 with the t/d and sl2 modules. I take all my distortion right from the SL2. It's awesome. I go guitar to tuner then in my loop have a small clone, hermida reverb, vol, nova delay, (flashback delay on order) and creation audio mk 4.23 boost (which is a great CLEAN boost imo) and that's it. I can do anything from delayed hillsong, jesus culture tunes to spanish or gospel or rock it out. I'll tell u one thing as much as i loved my 25th for the church stuff the morse is fantastic b/c of the switching. U can cover lots of ground from that fender single coil, to the warming rocking humbucker stuff and all the in b/w.

Ps - i can't dance so i'm not a pedal tapper. The nova delay helps with the tap tempo feature, and if u noticed my other pedals all have one knob. The reverb, chorus, and boost. So it's a fairly simple setup and i think it sounds fantastic at any vol.

Good luck and b blessed
danny

 

[dkannen]

From what you've described- I'd check out the TC Electronic G-System. It's built so that you can have (I think 5) loops running completely independently at once (for stompboxes), but you can still make banks and presets that have exactly what pedals you need running set. It's also got some neat effects built in. Another great thing is that you can use it either on the floor (a la Pod XT), or you can put the actual processor in a rack, and use the controller remotely.

 

[threeminutesboy]

I was about to suggest the same thing the G-System is a good unit and easy to carry.

 

[Mikey]

For me the best unit for this kind of purpose is the G-Lab GSC 2 or GSC 3. Check it out. Guitar System Controller GSC-3/ GSC-2 | G LAB
You can set up different loops, switch your amp channels and even control a Midi-device all at once. Just program your presets and you are done. Same analog setup as you used to have but switchable with one tap. And the icing on the cake is that it can even provide the 9 V DC power for six pedals.

 

[Bungo]

Another option (that I use), is the all valve, all programmable Hughes and Kettner Switchblade.

This comes as a 100W head, a 100W 2x12 combo or a 50W 1x12 combo.

I use the head and a 4x12 and this is perfect for me.

Inevitably there are compromises with the built effects, but it is so simple to set up and switch up to 128 different patches, it does exactly what you say you want from a set up. Personally I am very happy to have limited options with the effects as anything can be adjusted on the fly with the very simple knobs on the front!

Have a look here.

Products - Switchblade - Hughes & Kettner

 

[Jack FFR1846]

I can do anything from delayed hillsong, jesus culture tunes to spanish or gospel or rock it out. I'll tell u one thing as much as i loved my 25th for the church stuff the morse is fantastic b/c of the switching. U can cover lots of ground from that fender single coil, to the warming rocking humbucker stuff and all the in b/w.

I'm sure we both play a lot of the same stuff. A lot from CCLI from Hillsong to Third Day. I choose the guitar based on what I need for a particular set. My guitars are very versitile when all put together as a group....I don't really have a single one that I've been able to say works perfectly for everything. Yesterday, I needed a lot of sustain, which made me use my Canadian guitar. I do get a kick out of watching some of the big performers. We did that a couple rehersals ago so the leader could let us see some things that we could do. When the clip ended the leader asked what we noticed. I said.....they have 4 acoustic guitars, a strat, a tele and a Les Paul. I can't even figure out what 7 guitarists all play together.....

I've got a lot of research to do, I guess.

 

[Danserrano]

I totally agree, jack. It's tough. In my church I'm the only guitarist and they at times ask me to emulate all these parts from bands with 4 guitarist, 3 keys and a horn section. Lol it's quite entertaining. Main thing is do what your doing and ask away. I went from pedals, to racks, to line 6 then to the Tc g system, and back to pedals. The gear for u is def out there just a matter of finding it.

Ps - ever try an axe fx?? Might b what u need.

 

[paranoid70]

I would recommend checking out one of those Zoom effects boards. You get a lot of different settings and sounds without all the fuss of a dozen pedals. It seems like half the guitar players I hang with use them, and they sound pretty good.

 

[Lou]

Jack - sounds like you just need to step up to a bigger Digitech RP/Line 6/Vox floorboard. You will have more flexibility. I don't think you need to go tap dancing - you just need something more powerful. The Line 6 HD stuff is not bad and won't set you back much.

 

[LegGodt]

I would suggest the Rocktron PatchMate Loop 8 Floor.

You can have 8 stomp boxes of your choosing and I believe it can be set up with presets. So you can still have presets for each song, but use stomp boxes like you want.

I have the rack version, the Rocktron PatchMate Loop 8, and I use it for separate analog delay pedals in the effects loop of my ENGL InVader head.

I also have a G-Lab M4L under my pedal board that I use to switch out pre-amp effects (Whammy, Compressor, Phaser, and Flanger), but you need to have a dedicated MIDI controller to use it.

Currently I am using a Rocktron All Access MIDI controller to control the Rocktron PatchMate Loop 8, the G-Lab M4L, TC G-Force and my ENGL InVader head. Best of all worlds IMO. Tube head, digital effects when needed, analog delay pedals, and some choice pre-amp effects. All MIDI controlled.

 

[Astrofreq]

Norrin, Dr. Scientist pedals rock. I have the Frazz Dazzler and it is the bomb.

 

[Astrofreq]

I feel you guy's pain. I've been playing in church bands for decades (literally) and when the Nashville overproduced sound started taking over, most people don't realize there are no LESS than 3 guitars on any track. Generally, I can hear more than that.

I pretty much abandoned trying to emulate the sounds on the record, because I can't do it all. I just get the chord chart and play the way I play, filling out what needs to WITH the instruments we do have in the band. I can't tell you how many times I've been with church song leaders that want it to sound like the record, but with 3 instruments and a singer.

Granted, I don't really want to sound like the record either, because modern recording (not just Christian music) sounds to sterile to me. Hang in there, buddy.

 

[ksandvik]

Here are two possible strategies for multiple flexibility with a guitar setup for cover bands.

A) Simple - amp driven
Two or three base guitar sounds, clean, semi-crunch and heavy crunch. With a two-channel amp you could get semi-crunch by just tweaking the output from your guitar. This covers a huge majority of popular music.

A possible boost switch helps for solos.

External pedals :then you turn on/off various effects, chorus, delay et rest, depending on the song. You might need to tweak the pedal settings for specific songs but that's how it goes.

Remember that few in the audience really hears all the possible nuances or what the original amp sound on the record sounds like.

B) For RP/Pod XT systems
Usually these have four presets per banks (A, B, C, D) plus turning on/off effects.
Thus, program A for clean, B for semi-crunch, C for crunch and D for solo (in case no boost button) or experimental. You could do this for multiple banks, but always in the same order so you know how to go from one sound to another.

And then enable/disable effect via the effect buttons on the floor board or unit.

This keeps your head straight. Remember, at a live situation it's tough to remember complex settings, the more simple building blocks the better.

C) Pedal-driven amp for boost/gain, good for one-channel amps

Set the amp for clean or semi-clean (those darn Marshalls...). The use a couple of distortion and overdrive pedals to control the dirt. For example a DS-1 for dirt and OS-3 for gain/boost. This gives you three possible settings from clean, semi-dirt to dirt and possible boost. Then add the other pedals as before.

D) Few pedals if none
Set the amp to really good gain/dirt setting with max volume from the guitar output on the amp itself. Then use the guitar volume knob to control from clean to crunch to solos. It helps if the volume knob is logarithmic so there are multiple output levels from 0 to 10, not like most modern Ibanez guitars, argh. Also, a HSS guitar (Humbucker on bridge, single-coils in middle, neck) is good as you get more guitar sounds with such systems.

PS: I'm experimenting with MainStage/Logic to see if there's a really simple way to build a guitar structure of patches that could be driven by an ad-hoc playlist. So this is a laptop with an audio interface + MIDI foot controller.

 

[Danserrano]

+1 radrock. Main thing be led and b you....