Pickup Installation Help

[Astrofreq]

Good afternoon,

I'm changed a pickup in one of my Axis' to a Humbucker from Hell. Because of the nature of that pickup, I need to rearrange a bunch of the wires. Changing wire for wire doesn't cut it.

What I need to know is can you guys or one of the tech people recommend a good book or website for understanding the principles of changing pickups. I'm a fairly bright dude, but what I've been trying just isn't working. I need to know the technical stuff about how the pickup selector works and what each part does. I'm getting there, but I'm definitely stuck. I need to know what series vs parallel actually means and how it translates to wiring? etc. . .

Thanks guys.

danny

 

[beej]

Danny-

Normally it's pretty straight-forward. You have to single coils put together in a humbucker. Each coil has a start and finish (two wires each) x 2 coils for 4 wires. Plus, there's usually a shielding wire which you ground, for a total of 5 wires.

Different vendors use different wiring colours (see this link for colour codes). But you're sticking with DiMarzio, so it would seem that you should be able to swap wire for wire and be ok. See DiMarzio's wiring diagrams complete with series/parallel switching.

Why didn't replacing wire for wire cut it?

---

As for series vs. parallel, it's exactly the same as it applies to any other electrical component. When you have one coil of the pickup feeding into the other coil, they're deemed to be "in series". When the coils are connected across one another, they're "in parallel". Looks like this:

Quickie description- normally the coils in a humbucker are wired in series. You can wire them in parallel, it will sound more like a single coil but still without any hum.

On most guitars the "in between" positions (2 & 4 on SSS and in-between on HH guitars) are in parallel, which gives you a good idea for the flavour of the sound. In series you get the added power from each coil. In parallel, there is some cancellation of frequencies and you get a cleaner sound. Also note- you need to make sure of the phase of each coil when you wire them up so the hum cancels out from each coil.

---

Again, I'd think you can just follow the stock wiring diagram, colours in tact, and you'd be ok. You can always buzz customer service for the original diagram. Or surf the guitarelectronics site (colour code link from above) for some alternate diagrams.

J.

 

[tommyindelaware]

+1 !!!
beej nails it again !!!!!!yer dead on.
beej....love havin u around !!!!!!!! saves me alot of typing !!!!!!!!

 

[Astrofreq]

DUDE, that helps alot with the explaining. Thanks so much. Normally, wire for wire would do it. However, the reason wire for wire didn't cut it is because the Humbucker From Hell is made to sound like a single coil trapped in a humbucker's body. So, it naturally is bright sounding and lower output. So cutting it in half provides about 25% of the usual output. When it is parallel, positions 2 & 4 are just WAY too low of output, and I realize they will naturally be anyway. So series should fatten them up. Now, how to change it from parallel to series is kicking my butt, but at least not I understand in theory what I am trying to do.

I have a diagram that dimarzio sent me explaining how to wire it, but something still isn't right. Position 1 (neck) wasn't working at all and other things were mixed up. Obviously, I'm wiring it incorrectly, so I need to figure out the fine tuning of what I actually trying to solder. You know, "this connects to this, which controls this, etc." Probably actual pictures would help me.

I really enjoy doing the electronics stuff, but I need to "get it".

Thanks. I'll keep you posted.

danny

 

[Astrofreq]

here's the diagram they sent me.

I guess my first question is whether Axis Super Sports have the EP1112 pickup selector. Obviously, if it isn't, then that's the problem right there considering I wired it to look like this.

Here's one specific question.

if the signal finishing off with the white cable connects at these points, where does it go from there?

 

[Astrofreq]

thanks dude. I don't know why I made the assumption that the music man would have the dimarzio switcher. my dumb mistake. the difference is that the contacts are in different places.


SO. For the factory people, do you have a diagram that shows the order of the contact points for the 5 way pickup selectors EB uses? That would really help.

danny

 

[jamminjim]

spend a little time

at stewmac looking around they have the wiring diagrams for these switches

EBMM wiring diagrams or on the web at www.ernieball.com but they dont show pin assignments for the switches on any of the guitars you have to be electronic literate to get that

look at these links and you'll get it....

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/1/Super_Switch/Instructions/I-3200.html#details

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/1/Lever-action_Pickup_Switches/Instructions/I-3192.html#details


http://www.ernieball.com/mmonline/techinfo/

 

[Norrin Radd]

What an awesome forum!

 

[Astrofreq]

I think the super switch is still different from the EB selector. The Super Switch basically looks like the Dimarzio 1112. The EB selector, from what I can gather by closely examining it, looks like the position 5 (treble) is down near the base of the selector (I'm saying that because of the way the connector touches inside). Plus the main difference is that the poles are positioned different, and I'm not even sure at this point which pole is which.

I'm amazed at what I've learned just today.

I guess I need a tech guy to say here's where each position touches on the selector, because I don't think it is in normal order like on the dimarzio. I could be totally wrong, because I'm a novice. BUT, I do know that I wired it just like the dimarzio diagram and it was way off from what the diagram said. My conclusion is that the connectors touch at different places.

more help anyone?

All this input is great though. I'm learning a ton.

 

[Astrofreq]

Here's another dumb question. The first tier of terminals is for the Bridge pickup; the second is for the neck. Why are there two sets of five for each pickup? I don't get that.

 

[jamminjim]

if I had a diagram of pin assignments of the Axis switch I could figure it out but I don' tand I don't own an Axis sorry

Wow, I must of been tired. The AxisSS HH uses a super switch, a 5 way 4 pole switch. The link I gave you to the Super Switch at Stewart MacDonald is the exact same switch. If you will study it (especially positions 2 and 4) and look at your wiring diagram (dimarzio) you can follow the wires from ground through the pickup coil through one pole of the switch contacts through the other pickup coil through the switch contacts of another pole and out to the volume pot and then to the output jack. Pos's 2 and 4 work the same way only one uses outside coils of the hummers and one uses the inside coils of the hummers. You would find it very helpful to copy the pin contact diagram I gave you for a super switch at Stew Mac, then print it out so you can draw on it. Then print out the wiring diagram that you have for wiring the humbuckers coils in series from DiMarzio. Then for each postition (2 and 4) of the switch, start at the ground on the back of the volume pot, and follow the wire, go through the coil of the hummer, then through the switch (look at the contact diagram from Stew Mac and draw a line to connect the pins on the Dimarzio diagram for the position of the switch, you could use different colors for each of the 5 positions like purple, blue, yellow, pink, orange) and then follow the wire going out of the pole to the next coil, and so on.

It's really not hard, just takes patience and a little thought. After a bit it should be very clear how this wiring is done and how the switch works.

 

[SteveB]

PLEASE take a desoldering bulb and clean up that switch!

Thank you!

 

[beej]

Btw, there is always going to be a volume drop in positions 2 & 4 and they'll be more trebly. That's totally normal.

Ok, so you're swapping in a much lower output pickup in the bridge. Yes, the combination positions (2,3,4) are going to be mismatched in terms of output. For that matter, when you switch from the neck to the bridge you're going to get a lot more output as well- that's also an issue. Normally you just change your tone, but now you'll be changing the output quite a bit so you'll have to work your volume control as well.

This is just my preference, but when I swap out p'ups I like to make sure their output matches so the guitar is balanced. Maybe the easiest suggestion here is to find a new neck pickup that matches the HFH? Then you can keep the stock wiring and you'd be all set.

You can definitely wire the coils up in series in the split position. Will be a different sound entirely though- not what it normally sounds like. Even then, if the coils aren't balanced right you're going to hear more of an influence from the neck p'up rather than the bridge. Nothing wrong with experimenting though. (Just make sure you don't keep the pickup leads hot for too long- you don't want to damage the p'ups during soldering!)

I don't have the wiring diagram for the ASS, but if you email Customer Service next week they should be able to provide you the right diagram. Normally these things are pretty intuitive if you stare at them for a while. Grab a multimeter, follow the wires and you should be able to figure out which pins do what. I'm travelling, but if you're really stuck email me and I can do up a wiring diagram for ya. (Off hand, I'm not sure if you'll need to replace the switch or not to do what you want.)

 

[jamminjim]

The ASS should be wired like this

http://www.dimarzio.com/media/diagrams/E.pdf

 

[Astrofreq]

Ok, so you're swapping in a much lower output pickup in the bridge.

No, I'm putting the HFH in the NECK position. The wire for wire replacement didn't cut it (because of the nature of the pickup). I basically want to keep position 1, 3 & 5 the same, but make 2 & 4 series instead of parallel. I'm working on it.

The HFH is made to sound like a single coil, so cutting it in half with parallel wiring provides WAY less of a signal than before. Series should give the extra juice in those positions.

I have to hit the subway, but I'm taking all these diagrams with me for study. Right now, I'm just trying to study the Dimarzio diagram, just to understand the signal flow.

Why does the EB switch look different than the super switch? The terminals are on 3 rows on the EB, but 2 on the Super Switch. I know there are the same amount of terminals, but I'm not sure they are arranged the same.

more later. . .

 

[beej]

Ah, sorry- got it. All makes good sense.

My ASS is it it's case in the middle of the "reno zone" (aka my house) so I can't open it up to see the switching. There are quite a few varieties of 5 way switches so the only way to be sure is to play with yours or ask MM for the original wiring diag. Shouldn't be too much hassle to figure out and it's a good exercise to go through.

If that still doesn't help, order a new switch from Stewmac, etc. to install - you'll get the switching diagram with it. Only a couple bucks worth of parts. Lastly, I'm happy to do up a diagram for you in the next week or two if you're not in a rush.

 

[jamminjim]

Interesting that the EBMM switch looks like it does, I have never seen one like it, but it should electrically be the same, seems it would have to be. I don't see them reinventing a proprietary switch when so many good ones are already on the market. I'd sure like to see a nice pic or a few of this switch in better light.

 

[Astrofreq]

here's a few more close ups of the selector. It definitely is NOT as straight forward as the super switch of Dimarzio EP1112. I don't think they go in order or it should have sounded correct when wired.

I think I'm going to have to get the EP1112 and wire it exactly like the diagram. I could get the Super Switch, but I'm afraid there might be some slight difference there I couldn't detect.

I wish I could decode the diagram like you can, but I can stare at it all day and I just don't get it. There are too many things in the dimarzio diagram that just don't make sense to me. I don't get the flow of the signal, ESPECIALLY in positions 2 & 4 and what about that diagram makes it series? Or, why are there four poles? This is frustrating in the same way jazz is, I just ain't smart enough.

 

[jamminjim]

Hey bro don't feel bad. I've been in electronics for a long time and I assume beej has a significant background in EE as well. If I was there beside you I am sure you would catch on.

Hope you can find a good tech in your area to help you. And thanks for the additional pics.

 

[jongitarz]

What camera do you have??? Those pics are so freakin crisp!