Off Topic Question about so-called "Feel Players"

[beej]

You need to appreciate a lot of the artists in the time that they became popular. Each brought something to the table that wasn't there before.

Have to violently disagree with you on Beck. Learn a couple of JB tunes note for note (best of luck) and tell me it's not technically difficult and his phrasing isn't insane. The man is a monster.

 

[guitfiddle]

I don't see the harm in (and am personally a big fan of) having different genres of music. I don't listen to or play the same way all of the time. Some days I play fast (for me), some days slow. Same goes for what I'm listening to. Depends on what mood I'm in.

That goes for when I practice or at a gig. I'll play whatever I'm feeling in the moment.

Unless it's a song by The Cars of course, where you just have to nail the original solo in order to feel good about yourself. Anything else just ruins it. I don't know exactly how Elliot Easton came up with the stuff he did, but after many years of trying different things it still seems to me that every place he took a lead was the only place it could go. Magic. Anyhow, I'm digressing...

Listen to and play what you like. Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.

PS: Going to see a Clapton/Beck show in Toronto in February. Should be fun!

 

[robelinda2]

Jeff Beck is awesome, try learning Nadia- not easy at all!!!!!!!!!

 

[brasco68]

Beck @ Ronnie Scott's is a masterpiece.

It's been in heavy rotation at my place for awhile now.

Nadia is brilliant!

 

[Slingy]

I'm a garbage can of musical influences so I like almost everything. When it comes to performances one that strikes me was Stevie Ray Vaughan playing Texas Flood on Live at the Macambo. You tube it, blows me away.

For shred I prefer prog style shred like Dream Theater where it is a whole band effort where each player gets to shine, rather than one guy like a Satch or Vai with a boring backing band. Rush is my all time favorite.

 

[GHWelles]

Even Yngwie has soul.

EVEN Yngwie? He is awesome!

 

[Spudmurphy]

You have asked "What do yo guys think?"

You don't think Beck is an interesting player?? cough splutter!!!
Phew - I was around in the 60's and 70's and trust me - he brought guitar playing "up a notch"- The "feel" behind his playing in "Wired" "Truth" "Blow by Blow" is just incredible - here's a Jeff Beck quote...
" ... one of Eric Clapton's tours is more than the sum total of my live work since 1980. I just can't withstand endless nights playing because the pitch I play at is so intense I just can't do it every night"... ... That's why you find many of today's (and yesterday's)guitarists sitting in the crowd watching Jeff Beck. He brings sooo much to the table. - Just like players such as Van Halen, Satriani Vai have done in their tenure.

I have heard Albert Lee in a clinic say that he doesn't do the legato or tapping techniques of today's guitarist - but he has never been disparaging about them. I haven't heard a condescending remark made by modern players?

I was (and still am) a big fan of Paul Kossoff and he didn't play super duper fast either, but his music was about feel about light and shade, about music reaching an intensity (Mr Big, Fire & Water etc). Your comment on Clapton's vibrato just reminded me of the time he asked Kossoff how he did his vibrato because of the feel, so Clapton was self critical about his vibrato too. My perception is that there are times when it's best to leave gaps in music rather than play 2000 notes in a minute. I shudder when I hear players on you tube play 2000 notes a minute but with the feel of a cold wet sock.
C'mon - Kossoff makes my (what little) hair stand on end and makes me go all tingly as does Beck's playing - just listen to cause we've ended as lovers in a dark room with a good hi fi.

I really do admire shredders, legato players - and I ( a feel player?)won't stop trying to learn at least something from their style of playing.

so that's what I think .....I'll butt out now otherwise I'll end up writing 2000 notes, sorry words

 

[bkrumme]

I think there is something to be learned from any of the guitarists mentioned in this thread. Speed doesn't mean you're better, nor does feel. It's totally subjective. Listen to whatever pleases your ears as a fan and play whatever pleases your fingers as a player.

As long as you're enjoying yourself, you're doing something right.

 

[tm21]

I guess it all depends on how you define "feel". I mean I've actually read articles by people who dissect which part of Beck's thumb is used to pluck a certain note. To me that is carrying things much too far. Do you really think the note would have less "feel" if he plucked it with a different part of his thumb or used his index finger? Would the emotional impact be lessened? How do you even quantify emotional impact? Everyone is a unique individual, each sensitive to such a wide spectrum of stimuli.

But if a player lacks chops, it is noticeable and I don't think there is any harm in pointing that out. I think it helps to classify and categorize players and genres of music. Technical ability is something quantifiable, precise and very apparent in a person's playing. "Feel", on the other hand, is a totally useless and nonsensical word, essentially a placeholder or vessel for anyone to inject whatever quality they want into. Anyone can possess "feel" because nobody knows what it means. Does John Mayer have "feel" simply because he grimaces during a solo?

 

[gerry d]

I saw Jeff Beck twice...

the first time was astonishing...

the second time last June was life changing...

absolutely the best gig I've ever seen...

in all honesty if you don't "get it" then not much can be said..

 

[robelinda2]

What is chops? Sweep Picking? Beck has no chops because he cant shred like some you tube dude? Gimme a break.

 

[bkrumme]

What is chops?

Well, they can be pork or lamb, and probably any other meat you like

 

[tm21]

I agree fully, however, that the older guys wrote much better songs. A lot of shredders couldn't write a great song if their life depended on it. So perhaps what we're really talking about when we say "feel" is a great song?

 

[gerry d]

read what Dann Huff says about young players with chops in this interview

https://www.premierguitar.com/Magaz...n_Studio_Preparedness_and_Recording_Tips.aspx

young players are exactly that... young...

when I was 15 the thing that attracted me to the guitar was technique, its normal... but as you get more experience then all that changes.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I guess it all depends on how you define "feel". I mean I've actually read articles by people who dissect which part of Beck's thumb is used to pluck a certain note.

I haven't seen such an article - although I'm sure that they exist. I have seen a Jeff Beck dvd tutorial that says that Beck "threw away his plectrum years ago" ... then the instructor demonstrated how Beck felt that he could control how he wanted the note to sound by using the skin or nail of his thumb/finger. - nothing wrong with that, and it's akin to a u tube video recently posted on this forum about a shredder showing how the angle of his pick and whether he holds the pick in two fingers/thumb ; one finger/thumb will influence the sound of the note he plays (and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed that video).

Are you implying that technical ability is just about playing fast?

"Feel"- a nonsensical word?
ohhherrrrr! Listen to Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture - the bit where the "peel of bells" come in, or Bachs Toccata and Fugue organ recital - yes there are very fluid passages (legato like) but man, the feel when he plays those Bass pedals on the organ - I heard it in Lincoln Cathedral and that "feel" literally had the tears flowing down my cheeks.

PLEASE do not say that "feel is a nonsensical word" (in music terminology) and that "any one can possess feel because nobody knows what it means".

I guess you are right in a way- a lot of people don't understand feel.....
that's why sooo much crap is posted on youtube.

I do understand what you are saying in your thread - just not in agreement with how you have said it.

 

[bkrumme]

Feel is definitely NOT a nonsensical word, especially when it comes to music.

Feel is about emotion. There are certain pieces of music which evoke an emotional response. Feel is just the label put on that evocation of emotion.

 

[Sweat]

Yawn

 

[sixtyfour]

I agree fully, however, that the older guys wrote much better songs. A lot of shredders couldn't write a great song if their life depended on it. So perhaps what we're really talking about when we say "feel" is a great song?

Feel is not the same as a great song. But even if it were, trying to define a great song is as elusive as trying to define "feel" so that would be a bit of a circular argument.

 

[sixtyfour]

I think it helps to classify and categorize players and genres of music. Technical ability is something quantifiable, precise and very apparent in a person's playing.

I think categories and classifications go in the complete opposite direction of any creative art. It add limitations to something that's already impossibly difficult to begin with.

You also say technical ability is something quantifiable. How exactly do you quantify technical ability in such a way to say someone like Petrucci has better technique than Greg Howe? Both are at such high level, it's not easy to say who is "better".

 

[tm21]

I disagree...I can objectively say that Little Wing is better than Hit Me Baby (One More Time). Little Wing is also better than Sugar We're Going Down by Fall Out Boy. I can say with absolute certainty that A Day in the Life by The Beatles is better than anything Rockstar by Nickelback.