Re: Victor Wooten

[spectorbassguy]

Re: Victor Wooten

Maybe a controversial post, but a post on solos came up and made me start thinking, so here goes:

First let me say that I respect the technique and obvious diligent practice that has shaped Victor Wooten's bass playing. And he seems like a heckuva nice guy.

That said, I can't seem to get past about 10 or 15 minutes of his "Live at Bass Day" DVD. When he and his brother have the "thump-off" or whatever it's called, it just starts sounding like chicken scratches to me. And the hair-thingy's that Reggie Wooten has on his guitar? What's that all about? Seems like pure show to me. I know that this was a "bass day" but I'd much rather see a melodic bass player like John Pattitucci or Jaco or a real groover like Larry Graham or Verdine White than someone who was playing just to display his technique.

Again, no disrespect to Victor, this is just MHO. What do Y'all think?

 

[armybass]

well

I am a fan of Victors but I totally understand what you are saying and can dig where you are comming from. That being said, I dont dig his brothers goofy slapping thing on the guitar....I dont get that at all. I prefer Marcus Miller who is a funkster but very melodic first.

 

[bovinehost]

I am a bassist, but don't really enjoy all the superman bassists out there. Jaco? Okay, yeah, I saw him with Joni once and he was really fun, but do NOT ask me to listen to his solo stuff.

Wooten leaves me cold. Miller makes me long for McCartney.

All in all, I guess I'm a John Paul Jones fan. As far as slapping goes, I slapped a possum once. As for popping, I save that for pesky zits.

I am a bassist. A caveman bassist. I will play the song. I will have your bottom end covered, nice and solid, and I won't ever get lost, I know where "one" is at all times. Nicest thing to hear at the end of the night is, "Man, you are SOLID."

That's all I wanna be, too.

 

[Mobay45]

Amen Jack!

That sound like my bass mantra. I do enjoy hearing a good solo every now and then but I almost never play one. I played in a jazz trio here in Dallas for a while and that was the thing that I had the hardest time with, playing solos. Solid, on time and rockin' are some of the best compliments you can get as a bass player.

 

[Psychicpet]

about Vic's Bass Day DVD, I've watched parts of the performance once but his interview in the Special Features part is the best, he's got some great ideas for practicing and playing. His talk about get groovey with just playing a major scale is a great exercise for strengthening your concept of holding it down.
and yes Jack, althought St. James Jamerson was one of a kind, JPJ is like none other!!!! A true master! Ramble On...... 'nuff said

 

[shaver]

however, what the players of bass day do, is show off at what their excelent at. Though Wooten is an amazing melodic player, when it comes time do him slapping, no one else can do it, not at his level..so while people are showing off their level of melodic solo's, wooten shows his level of slap, which i can hardly comprihend (spelling), with that said, why not show off something like that, it bogels peoples minds, and its doing something different then everyone else who plays bass day, doing something different is always good, especialy if your sick at it

 

[armybass]

Jaco? Okay, yeah, I saw him with Joni once and he was really fun, but do NOT ask me to listen to his solo stuff.

 

[dlloyd]

I'm with Jack on that one. Jaco's stuff is impressive, but it fails (for me) the biggest test of musicality...

"Do I have to listen to it on my own?"

There's plenty of muso's who reckon that non-musicians "don't get" stuff like Weather Report (or whoever else: insert virtuoso musician here) because they have had insufficient musical education. I used to think that way.

But I've come to the conclusion lately that music that's made that way just isn't as much fun as music that doesn't neccessarily require study to appreciate.




Portrait of Tracy? Yep, wow... but check out how out of tune that sixth fret harmonic is.

Donna Lee? Bird's version is better.

 

[armybass]

Portrait of Tracy? Yep, wow... but check out how out of tune that sixth fret harmonic is.

LOL, ok man.

 

[fifthorange]

i would have to agree with the fact the both wooten and jaco are amazing but their solos and non-melodic and kind of, over the top. i prefer Stuart Hamm or Larry Graham for solos because they are more melodic.

 

[dlloyd]

LOL, ok man.

Heh, just thought I'd add a little to that just in case anyone thought I was having a go at Jaco for being out of tune...

The harmonic just before the sixth fret sounds at seven times the frequency of the open string. The closest note to this is a minor seventh plus two octaves... unfortunately it's 31 cents flat relative to an equal tempered minor seventh plus two octaves (which sounds at 7.14 times the frequency of the fundamental).

My ears can cope with the 2 cents sharpness of the seventh fret harmonic... the fourth fret harmonic is slightly worse out of key (13 cents flat), but that sixth fret harmonic makes me feel ill.

 

[spectorbassguy]

" The harmonic just before the sixth fret sounds at seven times the frequency of the open string. The closest note to this is a minor seventh plus two octaves... unfortunately it's 31 cents flat relative to an equal tempered minor seventh plus two octaves (which sounds at 7.14 times the frequency of the fundamental).

My ears can cope with the 2 cents sharpness of the seventh fret harmonic... the fourth fret harmonic is slightly worse out of key (13 cents flat), but that sixth fret harmonic makes me feel ill."

To quote Michael Keaton from Mr. Mom:

"Yeah, 220 or 221, whatever it takes!"

 

[cgworkman]

And the hair-thingy's that Reggie Wooten has on his guitar?

that hairy thing is to keep the open string from ringing when he doing all that 2 handed percussion/slap crap.

Now i didn't care for victor's brother but i do like victor.

but hey - to each his own - i think paul mcartney is a joke......MHO

 

[Lync]

Oh oh! I have to disagree....

I saw Victor live and there is a ton of groove to be found. Remember that these virtuosos had to know how to play bass first. They just took it to the next level and the level after that...

Lync

 

[cgworkman]

Oh oh! I have to disagree....

I saw Victor live and there is a ton of groove to be found. Remember that these virtuosos had to know how to play bass first. They just took it to the next level and the level after that...

Lync

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[cgworkman]

Oh oh! I have to disagree....

I saw Victor live and there is a ton of groove to be found. Remember that these virtuosos had to know how to play bass first. They just took it to the next level and the level after that...

Lync

I agree - and i also think that some bass players are happy where they're at. And that's why they tend to go against change and growth. They become musically lazy. Like miles davis said - quote: "If you don't grow as a musician, you become lazy. If you become lazy you're already dead!" Unquote.

Someone said earlier just because there are different styles and angles doesn't mean they have to like it. Well that's true but if you stop growing as a bass player then please stop playing all together. bass players have a hard enough time getting respect as it is, without having the ones without a clue around.....

If you have the luxury to play "your" own music all the time - then great, do that. But every working bassist will have to pop and snap if you want to keep working. god forbid anybody listen to the above mentioned bass players that have basically invented what it is to "solo" or "slap" today. I don't like country music - but I can play country with the best - because i have enough sense to check out what country bass players are doing. and most importantly - i respect what they do whether i like it or not.

that's what being a bass player, and more importantly a musician is all about...

 

[shaver]

i think of jaco's solo stuff as amazing as i find it, becuase it set a standerd, not an educational standerd, but a new way of thinking. so what if his what not harmonic was out of tune, how many people who play today, play out of tune. I dont belive they got into playing because they wanted to exciede educational bounderies, i'm sure they knew that what they were doing was different and cool, but i doubt their like "hey, i'm the new deal." if they did, they probably wouldnt have goten to where they had goten.

jaco's solo stuff and even wootens is simply amazing, because its a new perspective...
think, how many bassest, or musicans in general, try to come up with the most amazing melodic melodies and riffs. Its just a way of thinking for most, its something that gets done alot and over and over again. I dont see how this still amazes people. Sure hearing a catchy melodic solo is cool, but how many people can take it to that next step, add a new demension to it, a new thinking process.

i respect peoples opinions on the matter of them not finding jaco's playing what not, but to state that it isnt musical is a joke.
i doubt he coverd dona lee to make it better, but i bet he coverd it to show people that it could be done on bass...its that same thinking mentality, opening new doors, new idea's for people...who would have thought back then that what bassest were doing today was possible, and alot of it has to do with jaco's playing

also, to whom ever said that paul mcartney was a joke should re think. He might just be one of the greatest song writers who ever existed. as chad smith said of the red hot chili peppers, I under play to make the song better and bring out everything.
annd this is just what paul did.

 

[dlloyd]

Someone said earlier just because there are different styles and angles doesn't mean they have to like it.

That would be me.

Well that's true but if you stop growing as a bass player then please stop playing all together. bass players have a hard enough time getting respect as it is, without having the ones without a clue around.....

Hmm. I don't follow the connection you've made between not liking a particular musical style with not growing as a musician. I don't favour the bass as a vehicle for soloing. That doesn't mean I don't push myself to exceed my limitations on a daily basis.

If you have the luxury to play "your" own music all the time - then great, do that. But every working bassist will have to pop and snap if you want to keep working. god forbid anybody listen to the above mentioned bass players that have basically invented what it is to "solo" or "slap" today. I don't like country music - but I can play country with the best - because i have enough sense to check out what country bass players are doing. and most importantly - i respect what they do whether i like it or not.

Agreed. Which is why I spend time studying jazz and other styles which I will never play. The world is full of musicians who only study one particular style and, worse, only one particular player. I've left jazz clubs because I've recognised a guitarist's solo as being lifted note for note off a Wes Montgomery record.

 

[dlloyd]

i think of jaco's solo stuff as amazing as i find it, becuase it set a standerd, not an educational standerd, but a new way of thinking. so what if his what not harmonic was out of tune, how many people who play today, play out of tune.

...that was kind of a half-joke on my part. Jaco was striving to push the bass to its limits. On this occasion, he pushed it too far, trying to get it to do something that wasn't possible.

(snip)i'm sure they knew that what they were doing was different and cool, but i doubt their like "hey, i'm the new deal." if they did, they probably wouldnt have goten to where they had goten.

(snip)

i respect peoples opinions on the matter of them not finding jaco's playing what not, but to state that it isnt musical is a joke.
i doubt he coverd dona lee to make it better, but i bet he coverd it to show people that it could be done on bass...

I'm sure that is why he covered donna lee. Jaco's solo album is in many ways a showcase of bass technique. One of the more successful examples of this we've ever seen. It's a valid form of music, and there is a market for it.

I personally find musical expressions of "check this out" or "look at me" less enjoyable to listen to than other types of music. Jaco's playing on Hejira is light years ahead of the stuff on his solo album.

 

[Lync]

Also though...look at the guy from ACDC (Cliff Williams). One of the best bassists to learn from because his lines are so easy-BUT, he holds the pocket, and what he does works for the band. Technical skill does not always equal the best bass playing.

Lync