Relicing

[starsky]

Around four years ago before I saw the EBMM light I decided to travel down to London to get myself a good top of the line Str*t.

I hate sunburst and I hated the concept of relics with a vengeance but after trailing around for a few days and trying virtually every Str*t in and around London I came back with an ugly CS sunburst 60 light relic. The tone and feel were both head and shoulders above anything else I tried. It has mojo in spades for me. The only time I've ever totally disregarded looks in favour of that magic something.

I certainly didn't want a fake relic but whatever the manufacturing variables they all came together for that one. I just keep my eyes shut when playing it.

The guy in the shop said it was the best sounding and playing Str*t they'd ever had come through there and the assistants all gathered glumly to watch me walk out the door with it.

Is it the relicing that gives that guitar it's mojo and sound? Does the cracked nitro finish let the wood breathe and resonate more? Would it have sounded the same if it was a shiny new one with a poly coat? Who knows, it makes no difference to me. I just wanted a guitar that sounded and felt right for me and that's what I got.

I'd be in favour of an EBMM relic if the process resulted in an even better sounding guitar, but not for looks. I can't see how the sound could be any better **for me** than it already is on a new one anyway, EBMMs sound fantastic out of the box.

 

[hbucker]

This is starting to sound like a thread on an LP forum. Very over analyzed. Which sounds better, a blue guitar or a red guitar? Which has more mojo, an old guitar or a new guitar with a refined design?

How many people are answering this question? That's how many different answers we'll get.

I do see the relicing as more of a finish option than anything else.

 

[Astrofreq]

Which sounds better, a blue guitar or a red guitar?

Blue. Duh?

 

[Astrofreq]

... because the relics are especially made for people who are looking for those mojo-vintage guitars in an affordable way...

I personally don't find $4000-5000 for a relic affordable. Maybe some do. I totally agree though that I have played some KILLER 60s strats that are in a league of their own and I guess $4K is cheaper that $20K. I bought an '81 walnut strat for less than half of a relic and it absolutely rules. Different sound than EB entirely, not to take away from this fine company.

 

[andynpeters]

"New set of Fender Samarium Cobalt Noiseless™ Strat pickups installed."

ewwwwwwwwwww

Actually they're VERY nice sounding pickups & silent too.

Coming back to the topic, I'm in the "waste of time " camp....I don't want my guitars to look worn & dirty. What will a relic look like after 20 years of real wear??

Anyone ever seen the adverts "Fender Relic...as new condition"??

 

[whitestrat]

well lionel, thats your point of view... i don´t want to make this a VS thread... thats just my opinion - for me really nothing sounded as good as some of the custom shop relic strats - all i want to say is try some relics before judging the guitar by the relic-finish. my mate was a relic-hater now he has a relic tele and a heavy relic strat in his collection (he also has some custom-built strats and strats more than twice the price of a heavy relic he has selected over the years and he prefers the relics - he still doesn´t like the finish -lol).....

i am with you - everytime you pick up a guitar that fits you and you grow on that guitar is something special - maybe someone can find the perfect strat in a squire with new pickups - MY personal experience is after 20+ guitars counting and a few left that when someone is looking for that "vintage/classic"-stratsound in a new guitar nothing beats a good/selected relic.

I agree. It is a matter of opinion. You're certainly entitled to yours.

Try some CS relics? Actually, I have. I used to own a few. I've tried (honestly... very hard) to like them. I bought them for a few reasons. One most notably because I wanted the nice CS65 pups which you can't get without buying the guitar. Lets see. My ex-relics were 65 Shoreline Gold, 65 Fiesta Red with matching Pro Jr amp (loved this one!) and a 66 Firemist Closet Classic. In all cases, the finish irked me. Have also played the Rory Gallagher model and the famous "Blackie". All were nice pieces. sang nicely. played nicely (except blackie). But when I put in CS69s into my Silo Spec, I couldn't tell them apart blindfolded. I captured that nice tone with the Silo Spec. I couldn't believe it at first.

Then it hit me. I just got a $4,000 tone with a $1,500 guitar with modded pups. And the Silo Spec felt better to me. (ok... this bit is subjective). But my point is, I suddenly felt stupid spending all that money on those CS strats, and all it took was a nice pup change, and I didn't have to struggle with that God awful finish. So, I sold ALL of them, and have stuck to my White Silo Spec. I've never been happier with ANY guitar. And I have bonded with it like I couldn't do with those relics.

Of course, if relics are your thing, then so be it. Let no one else tell you different. But to me, there's nothing the factory can do to recreate that longstanding bond with a guitar that comes with aging, abuse and natural relic-ing.

P.S. Jeff healey played Squiers...

 

[Astrofreq]

P.S. Jeff healey played Squiers...

I'd bet $100 that the seller at GC told him he was getting Fenders.

 

[Earplayer]

i am with you lionel - it´s really great to hear that you sold all your strats and you are happy with your silo for single-coil heaven!!!
i also love the silo, luke, etc. - for "modern stuff", gigging, etc. they are top-notch and i say it again - everybody here knows why we love this brand so much!

"I just got a $4,000 tone with a $1,500 guitar with modded pups"

...i checked your little wing track - it sounds good but for me it doesn´t sound like a "4k-tone"... anyway - a friend of mine has two sss-silos (very nice of course) one with kloppmann pickups (very expensive and great pu´s) and one with custom-shop pu´s (i think they are from a 54strat) - and honestly most people i know don´t dig the sound/tone that much - including me... it´s hard to describe but it´s missing something... it´s a great guitar and the mod pushed the guitar to another tone-level (the stock-pu´s are also really good) but there is still NO contest even with kloppmann pickups... so everyone has different experiences, tastes, etc. - i am still talking about "vintage-strat-tone" of course... my 60s strat cannot do the high-gain thing like my luke of course - apples and oranges...

@radrock - hehe... r.i.p. jeff - a true legend!

 

[DrBob]

OK so what if we discount the "visual" relicing and consider instead the tactile aspect of it.

I've recently had the good fortune to spend a fair amount of time playing a James Tyler Studio Elite, and the thing that makes this guitar for me is the neck, and in particular the fairly heavy dressing they've done to the fingerboard edge between the frets. It does make what is cosmetically a brand new guitar feel and play like the best of the vaunted vintage pieces.
In turn this set me thinking about the neck on my No1 Axis. Now I may be wrong but isn't the assymetrical profile of the Axis neck an attempt to replicate the wear pattern on a certain someones (not naming him, don't really need to light that fire again)old guitar neck? And doesn't it feel brilliant as a consequence

So yes, much as I agree that hurling keys at a paintjob and spraying it with plumbers freeze spray to crack it prior to charging more is a bit 'odd', I'd have to say that there is nothing like that wonderful broken in feeling that some thoughtful tactile relicing can give you.

And here's a final thought.

If you do drop big coin to get yourself a Blackie,Frankenstein, Andy Summers Tele which is accurate down to every scratch and piece of corrosion what if ?
1. Clapton, Summers, etc put another scratch on their original ? Do you get to send yours back in order to have it's accuracy reinstated ?
2. You suffer Hardware/Electrical failure within the first year of ownership. Surely the 25 years of ageing that they've put on these components mean that even when new they're already 24 years out of warranty

 

[koogie2k]

Very cool read so far and I thought of a few things.

1. I relic my own bongo everytime I am on stage.
2. If the guitar sounds and feels great, I am willing to buy it.

The big thing here in my opinion.

What if you are blind? I hear how the relic'd strats have all this mojo, tone, feel and all that. A blind person could care less what it looks like right? So, that begs me to wonder, why can't these companies just make an axe that will sound great, have great tone and feel instead of charging an arm and a leg to beat up the instrument. If it sounds great prior to the relic...why not just make them that way so the new owner can put his own "magic" on it.

If you like the relics...cool. If not...cool. I prefer to relic my own, but, that is me.

Just my 2 pennies.

 

[petel]

What if you are blind? I hear how the relic'd strats have all this mojo, tone, feel and all that. A blind person could care less what it looks like right?

Kinda silly to reply to this part of your post, but actually many blind people's senses of touch, sound, taste, etc can sharpen when their sight is taken away, or if they were born without sight to begin with.

Regarding the fad of relicing (I def. think that's exactly what it is):

I've played some really well-done relics (non-Fender-factory relic'd), and even though it's NOT my bag, I can definitely respect the work that's gone into it and appreciate what is being done to replicate an old guitars' mojo (of which I've also played a few late 50s/early60s Gibsons, Fender, and Harmony. Some were beat and sounded like crap, some were like new and sounded great, and vice versa.)

Not everybody just throws keys at their guitars to relic them. The guys who know what they're doing keep those secrets to themselves like Stradivari did, just try and ask them "hey man, how do you do that?"

Now, having said that, I am part of the camp who believes in buying a guitar you dig, used and pre-beat, new, whatever you like, and just playing it because you like it. If you put some love into it, over time it'll show up on the outside. Just because it's beat to hell doesn't mean it's an immediate mojo-machine.

my 2 cents, too.

 

[koogie2k]

Kinda silly to reply to this part of your post, but actually many blind people's senses of touch, sound, taste, etc can sharpen when their sight is taken away, or if they were born without sight to begin with.

Exactly my point. Their other senses sharpen to make up for their lack of sight. Which was my point...they could care less about the "look" as much as the other tonal qualities and feel. I agree 100% with what you said.

I actually read an article on Andy Summer's guitar that was relic'd from his original. It was an interesting process to say the least. He did state he could not tell the difference between the original and the "new" one.

Again...it is your money. You want it...by all means...get it. Of course, i would prefer the actual orginal...but....I am sure that is priced out of the stratosphere...imagine being able to play SRV's axe? Or the original Blackie? Would be cool for sure.

 

[petel]

imagine being able to play SRV's axe? Or the original Blackie? Would be cool for sure.

They would probably get "relic'd" twice as bad from the million or so players and fans who'd want to touch and play it!

 

[whitestrat]

...i checked your little wing track - it sounds good but for me it doesn´t sound like a "4k-tone"... anyway - a friend of mine has two sss-silos (very nice of course) one with kloppmann pickups (very expensive and great pu´s) and one with custom-shop pu´s (i think they are from a 54strat) - and honestly most people i know don´t dig the sound/tone that much - including me... it´s hard to describe but it´s missing something... it´s a great guitar and the mod pushed the guitar to another tone-level (the stock-pu´s are also really good) but there is still NO contest even with kloppmann pickups... so everyone has different experiences, tastes, etc. - i am still talking about "vintage-strat-tone" of course... my 60s strat cannot do the high-gain thing like my luke of course - apples and oranges...

@radrock - hehe... r.i.p. jeff - a true legend!

Well, addiing recording to the equation sort of kills the example doesn't it? The PODXTLive isn't meant to capture pure hi-fidelity recordings thru a USB. Maybe a Palmer unit would have been better? I dunno. Anyways, my point was that no CS strat, relic or not I've EVER tried has made me think that that $2.5k price tag difference was justified. None. The BEST guitar I've ever tried that made me rethink about not buying it was a Tom Anderson Drop Top Classic. I'm still thinking about that one. That is the only guitar so far that's made me think that the upped price was justified. Not even any Suhrs I've tried have given me that thought. And neither of these 2 are CS Relic Masterbuilt prices. Not locally anyways.

I think what you're talking about is a sweetspot. Not just about the hardware, but also the setup. That piece you've tried that's got something missing was probably not set up to it's sweet spot like the one which made you pee in your pants. I've tried guitars like this. One of the reasons I sold my 66 Firemist was because it didn't sound or feel as good as the one my friend got. For some reason, his was far mroe responsive, and nicer to play. The vibe on that guitar was amazing. Here we have 2 physically identical guitars. Same finish, same series, same wood (ok, close) and same Closet Classic treatment. And yet they both sound and feel different. No matter what I did to mine, even copying the setup, pup heights and all could give me the same response. Hell, even my 20ths all feel/sound different. So do my Silo Specs.

Yes, that piece my friend has was a killer. But was it worth $6,000USD? (that's the local price) I really doubt it. Why? Because I got the same feeling playing my Silo Spec after. And the one reason why I would continue buying Balls no matter how good Suhrs and Andersons got, was that even those 2 had off days. I've tried mules from both brands. But EVERY ball I pick up has a consistency I can't define. Everytime I pick one up (ok ok, except the Axis and Lukes which I can't seem to like the necks) I feel right at home. These are the only guitars I'd buy BLIND. And they are UNRELICED!!!

 

[Norrin Radd]

For me it's about tone and feel. I've never played a neck that was as comfy and easy as I found on a heavy relic tele. That started to get me changing my mind about the whole relicing process (I used to hate it too thinking it was for posers and all that). Then after I opened my mind I played a whole boat load of relics. I like quite a few of them - not all - but a lot. What I found I really dug was the raw wood on the back of the neck, and to my ear, the nitro finish on the guitars where a lot of it was worn down/away, seemed to allow the guitars to breathe more - gave more air to the tone. I liked it.

The truth is I like them for the feel and tone (isn't that what you're supposed to look for in a guitar???) - and if I could get EBMMs in nitro - I'd be all over them and be beating them up my self. I really miss my AL the most of all. ANd now that it's available in that new gold finish I'll likely be finding my way back soon.

I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't just summarily dismiss all players who have relics as posers and wannabees. I also would like to point out that because of the proliferation of relics lately, the prices on used ones are very similar to many used EBMMs, so let's not keep throwing out those 5K figures - yeah they make those - but those are the exception, not the rule.

Now I know I can have an EBMM and do my own relicing job - although the poly finishes make that difficult at best, but the truth is I'm 41 years old and I don't want to wait another 30 years for the guitar I'm playing now to feel the way I like when I don't have to. Maybe I'm impatient, but I want to enjoy what I'm playing right now.

Hope I didn't ruffle any - not my intention.

 

[Axilla]

Relic ?!

Yes, but if so, then by serious musical playwear:

...lotsa dings, dongs and buckle rash. That's just mojo
But why pay for it when it's just not authentic...

(the neck has been resanded, refretted and refinished with oil/wax already...)

 

[hbucker]

I think there is something to a very accurately relic'd neck. Not necessarily for appearance but for wear patterns. This could create lots of mojo. With that, couldn't you say that the EVH neck is a relic'd neck? By all accounts I've heard, it's a digital repro of the neck EVH used through the 80's and reflects all of the wear patterns he put on that neck. It certainly has a played feel to it.

So in that regard, EBMM has played this game. But it's for feel, not for appearance.