Sabre pickup output

[guitarheadhunt]

I have had my Sabre Bougie since the year it came out. I have a love hate relationship with the pickups. The resistance measures in 17k range. Same as a dimarzio tone zone or even my axis pickups. The output is no where near the output of either of those pickups. They seem to be very low output pickups. I know resistance doesn't always equate to the output. I even put a foam block under the pickup to bring it closer to the string. it's better but still a very low output pickup. My prs DGT Se pickups have more output than these and there resistance is like 8 or 9k. My Luke3 clocks in at 10 or 11k and those have a lot more output than the sabre.

I am just wondering if it's just me. If I plug straight into my Apollo interface in reads about -9db on the input meter at a hard strum on the bridge pickup. On the neck it's more like -14.
In comparison my American tele is about -13 on the bridge. My DGT will hit about -6 on the bridge and it's only about 8k. My Axis will hit about -6 on the bridge. My RG prestige will hit -4db on the bridge. The bridge pickup is about the same distance from the strings as the saber as on the Ibanez. The Axis the bridge is actually about a mm further away from the strings
My Luke 3 will hit -3. This is all peak numbers.

I'm curious about what others are experiencing. Technically you would thing the saber pickups would be just as hot but they aren't. I'm not sure if there is something wrong or is this normal. The pickups have never been removed other than adding the foam to bring them closer to the strings.

The pickups have kind of a boring sound. You hear every note and note separation is bar none. Sometimes I like them and other times I feel like I am lacking something with them. I like the character I get with my DGT pickups. I kind of what a vintage sound with a bit more output. I was looking at the Pete Thorn Thornbucker 2 pickups. I like that paf sound but for this guitar don't need to scream like a tone zone. I like the transition pickups but I have them in several guitars.

Any recommendations?

 

[Rbg]

Thornbuckers are very very low output pickups. It is basically a classical PAFs, maybe tad more tighter. I keep saying Bare Knuckle and Motor City pickups!

 

[carouzal]

I have had my Sabre Bougie since the year it came out. I have a love hate relationship with the pickups. The resistance measures in 17k range. Same as a dimarzio tone zone or even my axis pickups. The output is no where near the output of either of those pickups. They seem to be very low output pickups. I know resistance doesn't always equate to the output. I even put a foam block under the pickup to bring it closer to the string. it's better but still a very low output pickup. My prs DGT Se pickups have more output than these and there resistance is like 8 or 9k. My Luke3 clocks in at 10 or 11k and those have a lot more output than the sabre.

I am just wondering if it's just me. If I plug straight into my Apollo interface in reads about -9db on the input meter at a hard strum on the bridge pickup. On the neck it's more like -14.
In comparison my American tele is about -13 on the bridge. My DGT will hit about -6 on the bridge and it's only about 8k. My Axis will hit about -6 on the bridge. My RG prestige will hit -4db on the bridge. The bridge pickup is about the same distance from the strings as the saber as on the Ibanez. The Axis the bridge is actually about a mm further away from the strings
My Luke 3 will hit -3. This is all peak numbers.

I'm curious about what others are experiencing. Technically you would thing the saber pickups would be just as hot but they aren't. I'm not sure if there is something wrong or is this normal. The pickups have never been removed other than adding the foam to bring them closer to the strings.

The pickups have kind of a boring sound. You hear every note and note separation is bar none. Sometimes I like them and other times I feel like I am lacking something with them. I like the character I get with my DGT pickups. I kind of what a vintage sound with a bit more output. I was looking at the Pete Thorn Thornbucker 2 pickups. I like that paf sound but for this guitar don't need to scream like a tone zone. I like the transition pickups but I have them in several guitars.

Any recommendations?

I have the same Sabre, Same love hate relationship. Guitar plays amazing, The pickups are Garbage. I looked into replacing them but could never be confident that another manufacturers neck pickup would work because they all seem to be taller than the music man pickups and I would have to modify them for direct mount (first and last direct mount pickup guitar I will ever own). Same as you I installed rubber washers, and foam to try to raise the pickups which didn't change the output or the crazy midrange honk in the neck pickup. Only the coil split positions are usable to me.

Would love to hear from anyone who has replaced pickups in one of these. What did you use? How did it go?

 

[DrewH]

I have the same Sabre, Same love hate relationship. Guitar plays amazing, The pickups are Garbage. I looked into replacing them but could never be confident that another manufacturers neck pickup would work because they all seem to be taller than the music man pickups and I would have to modify them for direct mount (first and last direct mount pickup guitar I will ever own). Same as you I installed rubber washers, and foam to try to raise the pickups which didn't change the output or the crazy midrange honk in the neck pickup. Only the coil split positions are usable to me.

Would love to hear from anyone who has replaced pickups in one of these. What did you use? How did it go?

I'm in the middle of this nightmare. The Bareknuckle Unity pickups I chose originally were going to fit on paper, but ended up being taller than the published specs. So, those didn't work out because the bridge pickup was too close to the strings. Then it was challenging to find another moderate to higher output pickup because of that shallow bridge pickup cavity depth. and my not wanting to rout anything. I ended up going with the new Duncan Rails pickups JB/Jazz set. These have a flat base plate with no feet. Just requires rubber or foam shims. However, the JB is pushed ever so slightly to the treble side because the side of the pickup hits the side of the cavity on the bass side. Looks to be a Duncan design flaw because no part of the pickup should extend beyond the baseplate extents. I have yet to contact Duncan to see if this is normal. I may just hit the side of the cavity with a dremel and shave it so I'm not putting lateral stress on the mounting screws. Then because of the flat base plates, I had to source longer mounting screws.

You'd think I'd be all set now, right? Nope. Guitar needs to be completely rewired. What I found in the control cavity just made me shake my head in disgust. It's unworkable. I have a simple setup with no boost or actives. But, they still pulled a Gibson and PCB mounted the 2 pots together. The contact points for the pickup wires are all on the PCB and bunched together so tightly that its imppssible to remove the old wires and solder new ones on without connecting any of the 2 points together accidentally. So, out goes the entire guts now. This is an abomination on such an expensive guitar. With no boost or actives, it should be straight point to point hand wiring with normal pots.

I'll get around to finishing this up in a couple of weeks. I have to see if the Mad Hatter solderless system will fit.

 

[carouzal]

This was the reason I stopped with my project, MM on the left, Fralin (And any other pickup I have seen on the right). The base plate is recessed on the MM pickup and most other I have seen are flush and will touch the strings in the neck position. I talked to Fralin pickups and they said they have helped install pickups in a few different music man guitars and all required custom baseplate modifications.

Been trying to sell the guitar for months and nobody will touch it for a reasonable price on a mint $3000+ guitar. First and last experiment with Music Man.
Guitar plays fantastic but sounds terrible.

 

[beej]

The contact points for the pickup wires are all on the PCB and bunched together so tightly that its imppssible to remove the old wires and solder new ones on without connecting any of the 2 points together accidentally. So, out goes the entire guts now. This is an abomination on such an expensive guitar. With no boost or actives, it should be straight point to point hand wiring with normal pots.

Do you have a pic of the PCB? What about cutting the pickup wires and soldering directly to them rather than the pads?

 

[Rbg]

most pickups I've seen have the baseplate reassess same as on MM pickups... thats strange. I dont own a Sabre, but my LIII takes any pickups. I am surprised they have different cavity depth...

Also, as was brought above, BKP use thicker ceramic magnets so their ceramic pickups are indeed taller that that other brands or their alnico offering.

 

[Bigez]

My Sabre came with the pups set very very low and I noticed the low output right away. After I raised them, output increased a lot, like, a LOT. I play mostly single coils, and the Sabre is now much louder than any of those guitars. Still, I think the pickups are just OK. They have a lot of bass that’s hard to tame. i do really enjoy positions 2 and 4 (maybe because they sound more like the single coils i am used to?).

 

[gregA]

I have had my Sabre Bougie since the year it came out. I have a love hate relationship with the pickups. The resistance measures in 17k range. Same as a dimarzio tone zone or even my axis pickups. The output is no where near the output of either of those pickups. They seem to be very low output pickups. I know resistance doesn't always equate to the output. I even put a foam block under the pickup to bring it closer to the string. it's better but still a very low output pickup. My prs DGT Se pickups have more output than these and there resistance is like 8 or 9k. My Luke3 clocks in at 10 or 11k and those have a lot more output than the sabre.

I am just wondering if it's just me. If I plug straight into my Apollo interface in reads about -9db on the input meter at a hard strum on the bridge pickup. On the neck it's more like -14.
In comparison my American tele is about -13 on the bridge. My DGT will hit about -6 on the bridge and it's only about 8k. My Axis will hit about -6 on the bridge. My RG prestige will hit -4db on the bridge. The bridge pickup is about the same distance from the strings as the saber as on the Ibanez. The Axis the bridge is actually about a mm further away from the strings
My Luke 3 will hit -3. This is all peak numbers.

I'm curious about what others are experiencing. Technically you would thing the saber pickups would be just as hot but they aren't. I'm not sure if there is something wrong or is this normal. The pickups have never been removed other than adding the foam to bring them closer to the strings.

The pickups have kind of a boring sound. You hear every note and note separation is bar none. Sometimes I like them and other times I feel like I am lacking something with them. I like the character I get with my DGT pickups. I kind of what a vintage sound with a bit more output. I was looking at the Pete Thorn Thornbucker 2 pickups. I like that paf sound but for this guitar don't need to scream like a tone zone. I like the transition pickups but I have them in several guitars.

Any recommendations?

I too have a Bougie Burst Sabre and found the neck pick up very muddy sounding any way you tried to tweak the tone or volume pots. Recently installed a Lace Electronics Deathbucker in the neck and it sounds best in the 4th position and still muddy in the 5th (full humbucker) position but cleans up better than the previous when dialing the tone & volume. The bridge pickup sounds good in the 2nd position (single coil-like) and manageable in the 1st with some more tone & volume tweaking....
What is the circuitry/wiring in the cavity?? - very sterile - Would there be a way to put some kind of filter in there to augment the sound?