Scarcity of high-grade woods?

[the24thfret]

NYTimes article today on the growing scarcity of fine woods -- "tropical woods like mahogany, ebony and rosewood" -- and the impact on the guitar-making industry (though focused on acoustic guitars). Essentially deforestation is threatening the availability of traditional tonal woods for guitars. Prices are going up dramatically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/business/smallbusiness/07sbiz.html

I was wondering if EBMM is similarly affected? Is there any interest in green practices or conservation? Where does the wood come from anyway?

I ask not only as a future EBMM player but also a environmentally conscious citizen.

 

[Rossie]

I heard that you can't chop down Brazilian Rosewood anymore...

 

[Big Poppa]

Brazilian, most Mahoghany,Koa, Most spruce (we dont use it) is all really pretty much gone.

The article is pretty accurate except for the the aliance. I seriouly doubt that these guys can work together and we havent been contacted.

Good light swamp ash s getting harder and harder to find.

You have seen it with birdseye. It used to come random with normal maple or you could select it for mot very much more money. I would always buy it and we used it like water. Now here is the rub. Almost once a month you get forumites disappointed about their birdseye. It is just like gold and almost as hard to find. The fact that we have never charged a premium is something I wish prople would recognize as it will be on of those things when you guys are sitting in your rocking chairs saying, " remember that crazy coot Big Poppa?,, He was so nuts he gave birds eye away!"

How do you change a consumers midset? If cherry wood was indeed as good in all ways you would be bragging about getting your granddads cherry wood Martin. WHat I think will absolutely have to happen is that the price for vintage instruments with the brazilian and flame and koa will only have to continue to appreciate as will newer instruments using some of the rare woods. Supply and demand are going to prove once again the backbone of consumer cost.

This is why five years ago I went on a quest to find a renewable material that would be an equal substitute to pre existing wood for the bongo. I failed but am still trying.

24th great thread

One of the ways that alternative are woods become more aceptable is the modern applications in curing sawing and more consistant manufacturing techinques that are being used industrty wide.

 

[greenwizard]

I thank god the JP is made out of basswood!!!

 

[KungFu Grip]

Very interesting stuff. I had no idea that the situation was already that bleak.

That being said, I'm glad I outgrew the mindset of needing my guitars to adhere to the "way they used to be made". Personally, I love the idea of a guitar made out of a completely non-traditional wood. Too bad I'm the minority, because that's going to hurt quite a few guitar makers in the end.

 

[the24thfret]

Wow, BP, thank YOU for the great response. I'm surprised it's such a hot topic and I've never heard of this specific issue before (ignoring deforestation, which everyone knows about). This is the kind of thing I really care about though, more so than guitar playing.

Really sorry to hear this is happening to the industry but moreover to the planet. Call me crazy but I'd rather have an abundance of untouched intact forests than 20 of my own guitars.

That's interesting too about the birdseye. I knew there was a lot of variation in it but, not being in the industry, I don't know anything about the wood itself and what makes some better than others. I didn't know (although I should've figured) it was that much more rare. And I'll be the first to thank you for not charging a premium for that... although, maybe you should have. Supply and demand, after all. I for one won't be disappointed if my new JP isn't birdseye galore. In fact, you can make my graphite pearl out of any material you want

About manufacturing techniques... are you saying that more precise manufacturing can make up for the "loss" in tonal quality of alternative woods?

Again thanks for the response, always great to hear the real story here.

 

[roburado]

I was going to respond to this thread before, but I knew BP would have a better answer. So, I kept my mouth shut. Yes, absolutely, you've heard it from the horse's mouth that this does affect EBMM. With all these gorgeous Balls it's easy to forget sometimes that this problem does exist. It's good to get an occasional reminder from an article like this, from BP and Dargin explaining the situation and how it affects them like they told us at Jack's B'Day Bash in Dallas last year. BP alludes to it every now and then like when he mentioned that EBMM had to compete with Lexus for wood and has to compete with the furniture industry for birdseye.

One has to wonder where things are headed in the future. Maybe, this could mean that every time BP and company put out something like a BFR, you'd better get your hands on one, because it's not going to be as easy getting guitars made of such wood in the future. Isn't this issue (i.e., scarcity of wood) one of the reasons that there is a Ball Family Reserve line, limited runs, etc.?

 

[spkirby]

So why is birdseye not seen so much? I know theres no shortage of maple trees...

Is it cost or is it simply in higher demand generally so there's less to go around?

 

[roburado]

BP, how is the supply of non-birdseye maple? Basswood? Poplar? Alder?

 

[roburado]

So why is birdseye not seen so much? I know theres no shortage of maple trees...

Is it cost or is it simply in higher demand generally so there's less to go around?

IIRC, one of the reasons is the scarcity of other woods. As I said in one of my posts above, EBMM has had to compete with furniture makers to get wood. When some of those other "premium" woods became more scarce, the furniture makers turned to birdseye maple. That made it so EBMM had to compete with them for it. I guess the furniture makers won.

 

[The Musicman]

I am quite sure that poplar is ok, there are enough poplar trees around where i live anyway !

 

[Crewood]

Being a full time gallery woodturner, I also feel the problems with scarcity of quality timbers. So much so in recent years I have started to use freshly cut sycamore, a tree from the maple family. To add interest to the timber I have to pierce and decorate it with an airbrush.

I stopped using the "exotic" timbers many years ago because of the growing problems with deforestation and also the health risks that come when working with these timbers.

It wasn't to many years ago that spalted timber was burnt or thrown out because it had little or no value. Again the furniture makers found a use for it, then the woodturners did and now a number of guitar makers are using it. All this growing interest has resulted in a massive premium on the price.

Working with wood on a daily basis, one of the things that first attracted me to the EBMM guitars was the quality of the bird's eye necks and the beautiful flamed and quilted fronts.

Mike

 

[roburado]

I stopped using the "exotic" timbers many years ago because of the growing problems with deforestation and also the health risks that come when working with these timbers.

What are the health risks specific to those woods?

 

[Astrofreq]

There was an article in the Andy Summers issue of GP about Spruce.

What about balsa?

 

[Crewood]

What are the health risks specific to those woods?

Mainly respiratory diseases but a lot of the "exotic" timber also cause skin rashes.

Same with the newly popular spalted timbers, the black lines and markings in the timber that make it so appealing are caused by fungus spores and most of the timbers are toxic to work with. Decent face masks and good ventilation must be used when working with them.

I have a good friend here in the UK who is a fellow woodturner, he was admitted to hospital a few years ago with all the symptoms of having a heart attack. Fortunately after a number of tests and with the help of a knowledgeable specialist he was found to be allergic to one species of exotic timber. He too has since stopped using exotics.

Mike

 

[Beth]

Intriguing, Mike! Thank you so much for your contributions!

We were in the May/June issue of Bass Guitar Magazine about The Wood Debate. Pretty interesting, although none of the companies mentioned in the Martin/Greenpeace article contributed. It would have been interesting to see their response as well.

 

[tommyindelaware]

new ebmm tee shirt ?
pic of a flamed headstock/
got wood ????

 

[Eilif]

This does not bode well for piano manufacturers.

Most spruce (we dont use it) is all really pretty much gone.

 

[kbaim]

Damn! Did this thread get interesting and informative quick!

I took my Blue Dawn Luke ('02) to a gig last night after just getting it back from the factory for a neck seal,etc. Was in the middle of letting a couple other guitar players feel the smoothness of the neck and as they did they FREAKED at the amount of birdseye.

I'm like, "oh yeah...that's another reason why I like 'em"

 

[darchirnoj]

I know that there is a guy down here in Texas that makes guitars out of mesquite wood, which grows like weeds down here. Don't know how the guitars play or sound.....if nothing else, they may make for a tasty bar-b-que.