Question "...separation anxiety with 1953."

[freddy]

...um...I could get kicked in the _sss for this but I did some research and just can't figure out exactly what BP means by, "...I'm just trying to inch forward an industry that has separation anxiety with 1953." (see Axis sss proto thread)

What did the industry and guitar-buying public part with in 1953 that is so hard to bear?

The P-bass came out as a radical 'double cut' shape 1951 and lost the 'slab' look to 'contours' in 1953 so, I'm guessing we just can't part with the classic 'Tele' configuration?

Or is it the Strat that came out in '53/54. and solidified that classic shape, pickguard and 3-pickup config so now that we are so attached to that, we can't accept anything else?



Just curious

 

[MK Bass Weed]

I love that line, it's in the BP guitar center bass videos too...

 

[Psychicpet]

as a Canadian myself please don't bring nationality into this... the confusion on your part might be a cause of upbringing, region of habitation, proximity to Ontario ( ) etc, etc, but not due to being Canadian.

jk jk

I do believe that what BP is saying is that there are a ton of Fender styled and cloned basses out there and "we"/"the purchasing public of players" seem to have a hard time with basses that don't fit the "old" mold.

 

[Psychicpet]

Oh, and if you're kinda insinuating that by the 3 pick ups and "Tele"-esque shape of the new proto bass that BP in fact HASN'T strayed from the 1953 then I do bleeb you're sadly mistaken and about to poke a bear....

*takes a few steps back*

 

[fidooda]

wow that's a great question, i would love to hear BP provide a more exhaustive answer to what he said before.

I'm under the impression that as a whole the industry hasn't really pushed the enveloppe as to improving the electric guitar/bass from what was done prior to 1953.

 

[mynan]

Why over-analyze it?

I do believe that what BP is saying is that there are a ton of Fender styled and cloned basses out there and "we"/"the purchasing public of players" seem to have a hard time with basses that don't fit the "old" mold.

I believe that sums it up quite simply.

 

[maddog]

Not to put words in BP's mouth...

As i understand the reference, it is in relation with the industry's infatuation with the standard Fender Strat/P-bass/Jazz shape and their unwillingness to let go if it. He has made that statement in relation to the Bongo as well in the past. I've read many a post that calls the Bongo ugly simply because it doesn't have the classic P-bass shape to it.

The problem is they didn't let go anything from 1953.

I like different. *shrugs*

 

[freddy]

Oh, and if you're kinda insinuating that by the 3 pick ups and "Tele"-esque shape of the new proto bass that BP in fact HASN'T strayed from the 1953 then I do bleeb you're sadly mistaken and about to poke a bear....

*takes a few steps back*

I didn't mean it that way-- I see the proto sss as an instant 'new classic.'

I see the point of your other post about 'us' not wanting to stray too much from the traditional features of the electric bass that crystallized around 1953. I'm interested in the incremental acceptance of enhancements that keep the tradition alive. I think BP and MusicMan have a very good feel for this process.

 

[Big Poppa]

It is something that limits the forward progress in design...can you imagine golf with the same set of acceptance? I love the Strat and the P Bass and the Les Paul but believe that if the public was willing to move forward there might have been some neat innovations. 1953 is a general era when most of what we play was designed. I want mor R and D from everybody. Ive also said that some companies idea pf R and D is a new can of paint. I dont mean these to be jerk like but the expressions make the point about the reluctance to embrace new stuff

 

[freddy]

1953 is a general era when most of what we play was designed.

Ok...that's what I was wondering about.

Thanks BP.

 

[the unrepentant]

I do believe that what BP is saying is that there are a ton of Fender styled and cloned basses out there and "we"/"the purchasing public of players" seem to have a hard time with basses that don't fit the "old" mold.

exactly right sir, and BP isn't wrong at all

 

[kylierider]

That 1953 comment always strikes me as funny.

I agree with it and then again don't agree with it. From my point of view I know lots of guitarists and bassists who always stay with traditional design because they are accepted by most people. It's kinda the safe way to go.

Take me for instance I love basses of all shapes and sizes..The Bongo and this new Axis bass design included. But there are certain playing situations I'm involved in that call for a certain look per say. I sometimes play with a Johnny Cash Tribute artist. If not playing my upright I will play my P bass or MM SR because they look the part being more traditional in design. A non-traditional looking bass may not fit as well, and I can't afford to buy an 1969 Epiphone to look dead on the part. If I had that kind of money laying around I would just go buy another MM.

I know BP has done the research and I'm sure he is right becuse he is talking about the majority of the bass buying population. But IMHO I think the public is moving past old "1953"designs. Take the steinbergers in the 80's or all the 6,7,8,10 & 12 strings becoming the rage. The MM Bongo, Ritters, Alembics, Carl Thompsons, single cuts, fanned fretted Dingwalls. The list of unconventional basses could go on and on. All new and exciting basses with SERIOUS hardware and electronics. IMHO a far step from what Leo first created.

 

[RobertB]

The list of unconventional basses could go on and on. All new and exciting basses with SERIOUS hardware and electronics. IMHO a far step from what Leo first created.

True, there are some out there, because interest/support does exist for them. I don't think anyone said there's no demand for more unique & innovative designs. But at the "macro" level, it's small.

 

[the unrepentant]

True, there are a lot of weird and wonderful basses out there, but a lot of people still like to stick to the p-bass or jazz bass. Hell, even i have a jazz bass, but the vintage market seems to be booming right now, and i really can't figure out why.

 

[Psychicpet]

yep, look at those Steinbergers of the '80s...... oh ya, they're trying to make a "come back" still.

and also the other weird and whacky shapes... yep lots of 'em, and a s a player of weird and whacky shaped basses, it's still a huuuuuuuuge battle to bring them along to every gig. even in studios, you walk in with a 6 string and the suspicious eyebrows don't come down for an hour and a half mind you, after doing a session or two with the Bongo, it is the requested bass now.... as soon as they found out it was a "Music Man" bass they lightened up a whole lot. then they heard it. then the love flowed.

all in all, it's still an uphill fight for most post-53 designs.

and as for the upright thing... don't even open the can of worms that is French or German bowing!!

 

[Big Poppa]

First off Im not attacking 1953. but there is separation anxiety with those designs. maybe because they are so good or maybe because they are what we are used to....vegemite tastes good to some...Its what they were raised on.

I love and own those instruments....So get that Im not attacking them but am stating the obvious that forward motion is impeded with the reluctance to adopt new stuff.

The boutiques basses you mentioned are fabulous but dont amount to a drop in the total bass bucket. You actually reinforce me case by pointing out the existince of those but the tiny market share.....

 

[ronnyG]

In my humblist of opinions..it just has to do with human nature...at least with most. They resist change. And the fact that the classic styling since 53 has worked so well..makes the desire to change even more difficult. With that said...thank goodness there are innovators not afraid to take risks..afterall, that is how things improve, and how we get more chioces..and choice is never a bad thing I would think.

Could you imagine if all technologies and designs stayed the same since 1953 for everything? Personally I like the styling of some cars from the 50's..but I also like newer vehicles that are faster, much more comfortable, can actually turn and stop safely, and do better then 6 MPG.

 

[freddy]

I think the 'inch by inch approach' is the best way, actually. It allows for opportunities to adapt and make subtle changes, like active electronics, decent truss rod adjustment and lighter tuners to make an instrument better. Isn't that how the violin family developed over the years? It becomes like a tradition-- the collective intelligence is handed down from generation to generation.

It must be hard on innovators like BP, though. A lot of patience is required. But at some point, maybe another break-through will emerge if the conditions are right.

The electric bass really is an awesome instrument and I'm proud to own a MusicMan because the Ernie Ball company takes this evolutionary process seriously-- even involving the user to some degree in the process.

 

[maddog]

I like Bongos.

 

[Aussie Mark]

I think there's room for both the old and the new. I love my Bongo and my Steinberger, but also love the "classic" Stingrays and Fenders I own. I have some new shirts I like to wear but I also like to break out my vintage 70s paisley shirts too. I like listening to The Killers, but I also like listening to Billie Holliday. I love that BP and the crew continue to churn out Stingrays as well as the innovative Bongos and the new bass that is currently in gestation.