Silhouette Special Pickups

[Nigel]

That last bit was funny!

Yeah, well I agree that they are different animals all together...but I still think there is something not right with my honey... find it very challenging to get an acceptible clean sound on all the amps I have tried, and I dont think those pups were voiced to be like that.

Well I think that probably ends the usefulness of the forum on this one.....if there's something wrong then contact Customer Services who will point you in the direction of someone who can take a look at your guitar and sort out the problem for you, rather than have us all guess
Good luck & come back to tell us how you got on.

 

[johanguitarist]

Just had a thought, could it be the capacitor on the tonepot?
The tone control is working fine, but could it have something to do with that?

 

[jamminjim]

A pic is worth a thousand words

John, is it possible for you to take the pickguard off, disconnect it and tke a picture of the bottom side and post it on photobucket or similar in high resolution so we could see it and help evaluate?

It could be a cap gone south, but the odds are pretty slim of that. To me it sounds like the singles are out of phase with the duncan. When they're hooked up like that they get real thin and weak sounding.

So post the pic before giving up.

here's a pic of the guts of a Silhouette Special for you to examine

 

[whitestrat]

Either. But I take it you don't.

Not really. I find them a tad bright, and too focused for my liking... Maybe under gain, they're quite nice, but not enough snap. I prefer the CS 69s in my HSS...

 

[johanguitarist]

Hi again guys!

Finally I have managed to get some time to have a look at it..

After a tip from jamminjim (thanks!), I connected the neck-pup (original single-coil) straight to the jack bypassing all electronics...and same result..

So my conclusion is that either I and my band-mates have very sensitive ears to high frequencies......or there is something wrong with the pup..

Any ideas what it could be?

Johan

 

[beej]

Try putting a resistor in parallel to see (125k or so), that's what it should sound like when wired up to the volume pot. I looked at the photos of your wiring, and while hard to see, they look right. So you just may have a bad p'up there.

 

[jamminjim]

Johan - out of curiosity, can you measure the DC resistance of the neck pup?
Also, Fingbeagles has new neck and middle Silo Spec pups for sale in the for sale thread if you should need to replace it.

 

[johanguitarist]

Ok, so i decided to make another check...

Measured the pots, the volume reads 0.031 (yes, 0.031 not 0.310) with the pot on full, 0.000 turned all the way down. That is with the selector set to 2M Ohms on the multimeter. The tone reads 0.279 fully open, and 0.000 closed. They are both labelled 250K...

Hmm...I am sorry im probably missing something really simple here...but how can they differ so much when they are both labelled 250K?

 

[beej]

The volume is unwired from the pickup selector when you're making this measurement? (Anything else wired in parallel will affect your reading across the pot.) Also take the measurement across the outside lugs ... the middle lug will affect the volume but doesn't affect the loading of the pickup.

On it's own it should be close to 250k, give or take a bit. Wired up with the tone you should read single digit k ... 5 - 8k or so (i.e. wired up in place, assuming the single is in the ~6-8 k range). 31k is weird.

If it were me, I'd double check all of the wiring and measure individual components. Disconnect one end of the pot & volume lugs and measure them individually. Make sure they're in spec. Otherwise replace with new ones.

With regards to the pickup, if you just want to do a quick check, use an alligator clip or wire the hot wire to the output jack and the other to ground. Then take a ~125k resistor (that's like 2 x 250k pots in parallel) or just use a spare pot, and wire it in parallel. One end to ground, the other to the hot of the pickup/output jack. Now play it and see. You don't even need to put the guitar back together, you could just wire this up and hold it up against another guitar that someone is playing (hold it in the same spot/height it'd be on your guitar). The quickie way to check.

Could just be your pickup is bad.

If you get stuck feel free to email/PM me.

 

[johanguitarist]

Ok, so I unsoldered the neck-pup and measured it, it reads 5,8kOhm.

I have also recorded some simple audio-clips. The weird thing is that the really harsh upper frequencies I am hearing "live" are somewhat not so bad on these samples...almost like they are at the very top or just above the frequency -response of the Sm57... It does sound much more biting and piercing in real life.

Does this make any sense at all to you guys?

here are the samples:
Untitled Document

 

[beej]

All the samples sound bright to me ... but that could just be the recording or my crappy work headphones. Given that, the neck p'up sounds ok to me.

Only you're going to be able to tell if it sounds right. When in doubt, you could always buy a spare neck p'up (there was one for sale here) and try swapping it in to see. You sure it's not just old strings or something else sounding off?

 

[beej]

You could call CS and ask for some help on the p'up. Granted the wiring has been changed, but they can probably tell you the stock resistance and p'up height. Might help you figure things out.

 

[jamminjim]

I'm curious - what guage strings? 9's? The neck pup sounds good to me on the bassman setting. Somewhat bright on the Vibrolux setting.
I think Beej is right on with the advice he's given. Beej, the DC resistance is in the ballpark for these DiMarzios. They're vintage style single coils.

Maybe its time to take it to a tech or guitar guru in your area for evaluation. Got any friends or stores that have Silo Specs? Just a thought.

 

[johanguitarist]

Thanks guys!

Well, I would have taken it to a tech long ago if there was one here... I live in Riga, Latvia, The Baltics, East Europe. Basically there are non here... I got the guitar in London when I lived there. There is hardly anyone using Balls around here...although my bass-player is using a Sabre actually!

I am using Elixir 10's, 9's just dont do most guitars justice...

The neck pup is about 3mm (1/8 inch) up on the bass-side and 2mm up from the pickguard on the treble, too low? Just tryin not to get the JB Jnr too close to the strings...and to balance them out the singles need to be quite far down..

But as I said, the main "icepick in the ear" seems to be higher that the sm57 can pick up...or at least it didnt make it on the samples...

Thanks for all the suggestions, much appreciated!

Perhaps I just need to change both neck and middle pup to something a bit warmer..

 

[candid_x]

Agreeing with Beej's estimation. The samples don't sound natural. The highs sound artificial and sterile to my ears. But then, I'm not at all familiar with your amp or amp settings either.

If the guitar isn't under warranty, I'd still call customer service, just to see what they might be able to do for you. My second choice would be to get it to a qualified guitar tech and have it completely wired from scratch (or do it yourself, if you can).

Personally, if I were using the SSS pickguard, I'd put a good sc with baseplate in the bridge position.

Good luck with it, in any case.

 

[whitestrat]

I have a feeling most of us SS users here have forgotten how the stock pup sounds. Heh.

It sounds right with the Bassman. The Vibrolux sounds like the amp is voiced with a mid scoop, and the bass is missing. It does sound bright. BUT, this is what my own SS sounds like when it's stock. That's why I'm not too keen on the stock dimarzios. It also does sound a little like the pups are too far from the strings, but I could be wrong.

Thing is, it's a single coil. Technically, anything wrong with the pickup should mean no sound. It's not like a humbucker where one coil can fail, and the other remain active. In a single coil, wiring breaks mean no sound, and any defect in connection leaves no backup coil. Furthermore, when paired with a humbucker of any size, the single coils will sound thin by comparison.

Technically, EBMMs should have a little less bass compared to a full sized strat, simple because of the overall length of the guitar. The standing wave produced by the whole guitar in vibration would lead to a shorter wavelength, hence a less bassy tone. But this also can be compensated by the amp.

 

[whitestrat]

The neck pup is about 3mm (1/8 inch) up on the bass-side and 2mm up from the pickguard on the treble, too low? Just tryin not to get the JB Jnr too close to the strings...and to balance them out the singles need to be quite far down..

There you have it. The distance you measure for pups should be starting from strings. Not pickguard. Also, shouldn't you balance the pups starting from the neck pup, then adjusting the rest? The neck pup should be your beginning reference. That's the pup which will be the loudest in terms of overall frequency response. The humbucker will over power it, but set the neck first to the tone you like, then use a dB meter to set the rest to match the volume.

What you're hearing in terms of disparity is also attributed to the different pot values that the pups need. Your singles need 250k, and the humbucker, regardless of size, needs 500k. Here's a wiring diagram from TGP for Suhr guitars which shows you how you can get both pot values from one 500k pot. This should solve your tonal balance problems. Hope this helps.

If this is in violation of forum rules, let me know, and I'll remove it.

 

[johanguitarist]

I just received the specs on the pups from CS, they should read 5,9 kOhms on the neck and middle pups. Mine reads 5,8kOhm which is very close...

Checking the specs on most other vintage style pups from Duncan, Dimarzio etc...that all are just over 6kOhms. Could this difference be the reason for them sounding so piercing?

Also, yes all the pups where quite alot lower than the specs I got from CS, so maybe it has a bit to do with that...I therefore raised them a bit, but it is still very piercing...

Is there anything in the electronics that could emphasize the really high-frequencies?

Sorry about all the questions guys, but Im going a bit insane here...I really love the guitar, but not the sound it has at the moment..

What replacement pups would u recommend? I know its very subjective...

 

[johanguitarist]

Noone?

 

[DrKev]

The weird thing is that the really harsh upper frequencies I am hearing "live" are somewhat not so bad on these samples...almost like they are at the very top or just above the frequency -response of the Sm57... It does sound much more biting and piercing in real life.

Yes, I would call that weird! SM57s are more than capable of picking up any frequency that a guitar speaker can put out, usually accentuating the highs quite a bit too. It sounds to me that you just don't like the combination of the single coils and that amp, which may be just too bright for your needs.

All things considered and having listened to your samples, the singles sound modern and bright and snappy and, well, great! Doesn't sound much like any electronics problems at all, i.e. pickups and pots should be all fine.

I would simply start by resetting the amp and pickup heights so you have a sound you like from the single coils, even if that means rolling all the treble off on the amp. If you can't adjust the JB jr to get a sound you want then something has to go. My guess is either the singles or the amp.