Someone move this if its in the wrong place!

[Knox]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of the tab for Steve Lukather's "Twist the Knife"?

And furthermore - has anyone noticed that the track "I want some Action" By Van Halen (Leftover form 5150 sessions - if anyone wants a copy email me) is basically the same tune as "Twist the knife" which incidentaly Eddie played Bass on for Steve L.................Conspiracy or what!

 

[slukather]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of the tab for Steve Lukather's "Twist the Knife"?

And furthermore - has anyone noticed that the track "I want some Action" By Van Halen (Leftover form 5150 sessions - if anyone wants a copy email me) is basically the same tune as "Twist the knife" which incidentaly Eddie played Bass on for Steve L.................Conspiracy or what!

I want some action was written before Twist the knife, Luke and Ed wrote the song, well Ed just gave that riff to Luke and he finished off the song.

I think Twist the knife Sh!ts all over I want some action. GO LUKE WWWWOOOOOO

I haven't seen Twist the knife tab on the net, maybe someone else has it, or maybe get a program that l use, it's called Amazing slow downer, it just slows the song down, without changing the pitch. It's a great program to use.

Scott.

 

[slukather]

Also that riff makes another appearance on Dirty Water Dog, which is on Van Halen 3.

Scott.

 

[Knox]

What riff? The harmonic intro or the main blues riff?

I'll need to listen to Dirty Water Dog as from memory I don't think this sounds anything like Twist The Knife/I want some action, but I may well be wrong.

Chance to get that VH3 album out again I suppose and remove the 1 inch of dust off the jewel case!

 

[slukather]

What riff? The harmonic intro or the main blues riff?

I'll need to listen to Dirty Water Dog as from memory I don't think this sounds anything like Twist The Knife/I want some action, but I may well be wrong.

Chance to get that VH3 album out again I suppose and remove the 1 inch of dust off the jewel case!

I just read that in an interview with EVH, l haven't actually sat down and listened to what part, l think it's the main riff from Twist the knife, l was just listening to Dirty Water Dog while l was working and it sounds like he uses the Hormonic intro from Twist the knife as well, l'll have to listen over the song properly, it's been a while since l've listened to both songs.

Scott.

 

[Ali]

I think I'm alone in the world in liking VH3

It's not a classic album but some of the riffs on there are fantastic. In fact, if you ignore the slightly anal prog-rock lyrics and the absolutely awful production and mastering, the guitar playing is some of Eddie's best. The general tone sounds very much like Me Wise Magic and Can't Get This Stuff No More. All that's missing is Dave and I can't help wondering what he could have written to go with those riffs. I guess we'll never know. The only song that Gary Cherone really shines on is "Once" and I really love that track. The second solo is just spine tingling. The rest of the album he just sounds like he's trying desperately not to sound like Sam or Dave and is missing Nuno the same way the rest of the band miss having Sam around.

 

[slukather]

I think I'm alone in the world in liking VH3

It's not a classic album but some of the riffs on there are fantastic. In fact, if you ignore the slightly anal prog-rock lyrics and the absolutely awful production and mastering, the guitar playing is some of Eddie's best. The general tone sounds very much like Me Wise Magic and Can't Get This Stuff No More. All that's missing is Dave and I can't help wondering what he could have written to go with those riffs. I guess we'll never know. The only song that Gary Cherone really shines on is "Once" and I really love that track. The second solo is just spine tingling. The rest of the album he just sounds like he's trying desperately not to sound like Sam or Dave and is missing Nuno the same way the rest of the band miss having Sam around.

I liked VH3 as well, l just miss Michael Anthonys backing vocals, to me they are as important to the Van Halen sound as Ed guitar. Once is an excellent track.

I thing l don't get is, from memory, they said not to expect a normal VH album, they were moving in another direction, and alot of people didn't like the way they were heading, or more to the point, they were expecting a normal VH album.

Scott.

 

[Ali]

We may get to hear that direction yet. Latest rumours are that Alex is telling everyone that a new album will apear with Sammy on vocals whilst Sammy is telling everyone that it was a one tour deal and he doesn't want to continue, going back to the Waboritas.

Who knows what will happen next?

I have to say, I'm just not as happy with Sammy being in VH, and that's coming from a VH fan and a Sammy fan. The songs on The Best Of... were too cobbled together. It's like Sammy turned up, wrote the lyrics in 5 minuts and hit record. Up for Breakfast would be juvenile for a young band, but coming from a late 50s grown man there's a real hint of "this is sad" about them. It's About Time's lyrics are so glaringly obvious that they're a little painful as well. Only Learning To See has any real quality about it. Yet the actual tracks are great. Sammy just couldn't be bothered from the sounds of things. It's a malaise that, having heard the difference between "Twist The Knife" and "I Want Some Action", effectively two versions of the same song, isn't new to Sammy. Sometimes he just phones in his performance and rumages around the cliche bin a little too deep.

Yet listeneing to all Sammy's solo records since Balance, you realise that he's capable of SO much more. The biting sarcasm of MArching To Mars through to the Zeppelin meets BB King of Not For Sale, they are superb albums. The Waboritas are such a capable and tight band that I actually hope Sammy gets back to doing what he does best. You sense that, on his own, he has so much more to givem yet in VH he's done and dusted with it all.

Of course, that leaves VH in a very difficult position. It has to be said, a little piece of me wishes that the VHs would swallow there pride and DLR would stop trying to conquer the Amazon and helping humanity (I hear his latest escapade is training as a volunteer paramedic in New York!!!) to do one last studio album. If a deal where no tour is planned were put together then they could just take baby steps and see where it went. Despite my respect for Sam and Gary, the two tracks of Greatest Hits Volume 1 that Dave sang on were the most refreshing and memorable since 1984. They just had a magic and chemistry that no-one else has recreated. Dave can't do it with a tribute band and VH are obviously having more difficulties with Sammy. Everyone knows that DLRs voise is shot. What few seem to realise is that it wasn't any good to start with!!! The guy can't sing like Sammy. But he still has a presence, delivery and unique outlook that worked with Eddie's playing like nobody before or since.

I can dream I suppose. The same dream includes EVH stopping his fannying about and re-establishing the EBMM connection

 

[slukather]

We may get to hear that direction yet. Latest rumours are that Alex is telling everyone that a new album will apear with Sammy on vocals whilst Sammy is telling everyone that it was a one tour deal and he doesn't want to continue, going back to the Waboritas.

Who knows what will happen next?

I have to say, I'm just not as happy with Sammy being in VH, and that's coming from a VH fan and a Sammy fan. The songs on The Best Of... were too cobbled together. It's like Sammy turned up, wrote the lyrics in 5 minuts and hit record. Up for Breakfast would be juvenile for a young band, but coming from a late 50s grown man there's a real hint of "this is sad" about them. It's About Time's lyrics are so glaringly obvious that they're a little painful as well. Only Learning To See has any real quality about it. Yet the actual tracks are great. Sammy just couldn't be bothered from the sounds of things. It's a malaise that, having heard the difference between "Twist The Knife" and "I Want Some Action", effectively two versions of the same song, isn't new to Sammy. Sometimes he just phones in his performance and rumages around the cliche bin a little too deep.

Yet listeneing to all Sammy's solo records since Balance, you realise that he's capable of SO much more. The biting sarcasm of MArching To Mars through to the Zeppelin meets BB King of Not For Sale, they are superb albums. The Waboritas are such a capable and tight band that I actually hope Sammy gets back to doing what he does best. You sense that, on his own, he has so much more to givem yet in VH he's done and dusted with it all.

Of course, that leaves VH in a very difficult position. It has to be said, a little piece of me wishes that the VHs would swallow there pride and DLR would stop trying to conquer the Amazon and helping humanity (I hear his latest escapade is training as a volunteer paramedic in New York!!!) to do one last studio album. If a deal where no tour is planned were put together then they could just take baby steps and see where it went. Despite my respect for Sam and Gary, the two tracks of Greatest Hits Volume 1 that Dave sang on were the most refreshing and memorable since 1984. They just had a magic and chemistry that no-one else has recreated. Dave can't do it with a tribute band and VH are obviously having more difficulties with Sammy. Everyone knows that DLRs voise is shot. What few seem to realise is that it wasn't any good to start with!!! The guy can't sing like Sammy. But he still has a presence, delivery and unique outlook that worked with Eddie's playing like nobody before or since.

I can dream I suppose. The same dream includes EVH stopping his fannying about and re-establishing the EBMM connection

I think Van Halen are over, I think Sammy will go back to his solo career, which l hope he does. If Van Halen decide to go get DLR on vocals, it will just be a joke, I mean, Ed just being in his drunken stooper all the time, noodling through the songs, and Dave being stuck in 1984, forgetting lyrics, and the lyrics he sings being out of tune, and theres something creepy about a 50 year old man saying, l'm gonna f$ck your g'friend. Look l'm a fan of the DLR era, but it was more of a case of, whens the solo coming up? Needless to say l prefer the Sammy era.

Scott.

 

[Ali]

Don't get me wrong Scott. I love the Sammy era too. 5150 was the first VH album I bought, and 4th album I bought full stop!!! Before that, my exposure to VH was a tape a friend recorded for me of his brothers VH collection and it blew me away. But the Sammy era, especially OU812 and 5150, was a fantastic era. However, my beef is that Sammy just doesn't seem to care about VH anymore. Sammy is shrewd business man (unlike paranoid Alex or "I'll-do-what-Alex-does" Eddie) and the tour was, for him, as much about exposure and money. That's not a criticism as I'd do the same thing if I were in his shoes.

I look forward to the next Sammy and the Wabos record far more than I would the next Van Hagar album. His output in the last 9 years has been sensational and of the highest quality. I never really liked Sammy as a solo artist prior to Van Halen and I never saw what the fuss was about with Montrose, but since 1996 he;s blossomed into one of my favourite artists. The 5 albums he put out go with me everywhere in the car and the two DVDs are getting very frequent airings.

I have to disagree about DLR though. When Dave tries, he can put together lyrics that are funny, intelligent and provocative without descending into the world that "Up For Breakfast" (even the title makes me cringe) inhabits. Can't Get This Stuff..and Me Wise Magic were far from the "I'm gonna f*** your girlfriend" era. There's a surrealism to Daves lyrics that just work. I certainly wouldn't want them to tour though as I think Eddie is beyond that now. At least in a studio the genius can shine through after a few takes, but live he's just way to inconsistent and he's not going to change. I still think Dave can get away with it in the studio as well. Sure he thinks its still 1984, but so do a lot of the VH fans And Dave's solo output is every bit as good as Sammy's. Even Diamond Dave and it's selection of the worlds most bizarre covers is huge fun. I stil wish he'd carried on in the direction that he, with Nile Rogers at the helm, started in Your Filthy Little Mouth. That album showed so much talent and humour, yet real musical maturity. It sold poorly as a victim of grunge and the hair metal backlash, not because it was a bad album. It wasn't, it was pure genius.

Maybe I should grow beyond 1984 i suppose

At least Toto have held it together and with Bobby back are in prime health. Here's looking forward to the new album...

 

[slukather]

Don't get me wrong Scott. I love the Sammy era too. 5150 was the first VH album I bought, and 4th album I bought full stop!!! Before that, my exposure to VH was a tape a friend recorded for me of his brothers VH collection and it blew me away. But the Sammy era, especially OU812 and 5150, was a fantastic era. However, my beef is that Sammy just doesn't seem to care about VH anymore. Sammy is shrewd business man (unlike paranoid Alex or "I'll-do-what-Alex-does" Eddie) and the tour was, for him, as much about exposure and money. That's not a criticism as I'd do the same thing if I were in his shoes.

I look forward to the next Sammy and the Wabos record far more than I would the next Van Hagar album. His output in the last 9 years has been sensational and of the highest quality. I never really liked Sammy as a solo artist prior to Van Halen and I never saw what the fuss was about with Montrose, but since 1996 he;s blossomed into one of my favourite artists. The 5 albums he put out go with me everywhere in the car and the two DVDs are getting very frequent airings.

I have to disagree about DLR though. When Dave tries, he can put together lyrics that are funny, intelligent and provocative without descending into the world that "Up For Breakfast" (even the title makes me cringe) inhabits. Can't Get This Stuff..and Me Wise Magic were far from the "I'm gonna f*** your girlfriend" era. There's a surrealism to Daves lyrics that just work. I certainly wouldn't want them to tour though as I think Eddie is beyond that now. At least in a studio the genius can shine through after a few takes, but live he's just way to inconsistent and he's not going to change. I still think Dave can get away with it in the studio as well. Sure he thinks its still 1984, but so do a lot of the VH fans And Dave's solo output is every bit as good as Sammy's. Even Diamond Dave and it's selection of the worlds most bizarre covers is huge fun. I stil wish he'd carried on in the direction that he, with Nile Rogers at the helm, started in Your Filthy Little Mouth. That album showed so much talent and humour, yet real musical maturity. It sold poorly as a victim of grunge and the hair metal backlash, not because it was a bad album. It wasn't, it was pure genius.

Maybe I should grow beyond 1984 i suppose

At least Toto have held it together and with Bobby back are in prime health. Here's looking forward to the new album...

I have to agree with some of your points, l guess we can both agree, Van Halen is over.

Yes, Sammy is a business man, lets not forgot though, Van Halen is a business, and thats how the four/five including both Roth and hagar make money, i don't blame Sammy for going back with Van Halen, l know l would of, and l don't think that theres anyone alive who would say any different.

Yes Ed has lost it.

About my Dave comments, I just think he need to grow up a bit, that "I'm gonna F&ck your g/friend" comment, he still does that in his concerts, but hey, if he wants to do that, thats fine with me, but l ain't buying it, i just find it stupid. That's all.

Hey, l wish is was 1984 though, but it's not, and dressing/acting like it is ain't gonna make it a fact.

Yes l am happy Bobby is back with Toto, but l think Toto was better with Steve Lukather on vocals, around the Kingdom of desire album, when it was just , Steve Lukather - Guitar/Vocals, Mike Porcaro - Bass, Jeff Porcaro - Drums, David Paich - Keyboards. A nice striped back Toto.

But Ali, these comments aren't in spite of you, l ain't looking for a fight or nothing, just having a nice friendly chat, you have your opition and l have mine, there are worse Van Halen fans, but l think Van Halen have had their day, doesn't matter if they have Sammy or Dave singing. I think they should of retired after Balance, when Sammy left/quit, or even after VH 3.

Peace bro,

Scott.

 

[Ali]

No worries Scott. I'm not taking offence at all. I just enjoy a good debate on something I care about. It's what internet forums do best

I can see where you're coming from. I just would like a full stop on the whole affair. A final shot of what the VH fans have called for for years. A last album with DLR, EVH, AVH and Mike. No tour, no follow up plans. Just one last album the way it all began. Call it "Final", "The End", "Fin" or whatever. It would just be a nice touch for all those fans that have spent 20 years wishing it would happen. Let's face it, it's too late for it to mean anything but to the hardcore. If a genuine DLR revival was to have happened they should have sorted it out in 1996. Imagine what could have been... I guess Ray Danniels has a lot to answer for. Beyond that? Maybe the brothers can carry on as solo artists allowing Eddie his freedom to experiment and go off on directions he's obviously keen to explore, without worrying about commercial success or tours. I'm sure he'd find a willing smaller record company to support him Steve Vai's Favoured Nations would be top of my list.

I'm afraid I'm a Bobby and Joseph era Toto fan. I enjoyed the KoD era and I love Tambu, but to have three vocalists in the band takes them back to the good ol' days and stops it sounding too much like a Luke solo project. KoD always seemed like the prelude to Candyman. Variety has always been the real attraction of Toto for me. That and the sheer musical talent on show, especially Mr. L's playing. It would be lovely to see Joseph crop up on a few tracks as lead singer in future, and maybe do a tour with everyone in place. Hell, get them to drag Steve Porcaro out on the road as well. Dave could use a break in the show after all...

News on the new Toto album IS looking good though. Luke has actually mentioned that Steve P might be contributing, that everyone has really good song ideas and that Gregg is also now considered a full Toto member!!! The family is certainly growing....though i don't see Byron making a return any time soon

 

[slukather]

No worries Scott. I'm not taking offence at all. I just enjoy a good debate on something I care about. It's what internet forums do best

I can see where you're coming from. I just would like a full stop on the whole affair. A final shot of what the VH fans have called for for years. A last album with DLR, EVH, AVH and Mike. No tour, no follow up plans. Just one last album the way it all began. Call it "Final", "The End", "Fin" or whatever. It would just be a nice touch for all those fans that have spent 20 years wishing it would happen. Let's face it, it's too late for it to mean anything but to the hardcore. If a genuine DLR revival was to have happened they should have sorted it out in 1996. Imagine what could have been... I guess Ray Danniels has a lot to answer for. Beyond that? Maybe the brothers can carry on as solo artists allowing Eddie his freedom to experiment and go off on directions he's obviously keen to explore, without worrying about commercial success or tours. I'm sure he'd find a willing smaller record company to support him Steve Vai's Favoured Nations would be top of my list.

I hope you do get your tour with DLR, i would go to a concert to see Van Halen with DLR, cause l'm a Ed, Al, Mike fan, who know, Dave might get his act together and impress me, prove me wrong Dave. BUt they did try to get back wih Dave 1996, 2000 and 2001, l just wonder what the hold up was????? egos, lawyers, record companys etc...

I think if Ed did do a solo project it would be like what he wanted to do in 1986, were he has a different singer on eack track.

Al, l've always wondered what he would sound like playing with Led Zep, l think it would sound great, not taking anything away from the late great John Bonham.

Sammy, go back to your Wabarita's, rock out, call Jesse Harms, get him back, man that guy had some pipes on him, and a great keyboard player to boot.

Mike, he should really be in the Waborita's, Sam, sack mona, get Mikey.

Dave, get your **** together, and release a rock and roll album, like the old crazy from the heat albums, orginial music, NO COVERS. My hat goes off to him for doing that emt thing in New York.

I'm afraid I'm a Bobby and Joseph era Toto fan. I enjoyed the KoD era and I love Tambu, but to have three vocalists in the band takes them back to the good ol' days and stops it sounding too much like a Luke solo project. KoD always seemed like the prelude to Candyman. Variety has always been the real attraction of Toto for me. That and the sheer musical talent on show, especially Mr. L's playing. It would be lovely to see Joseph crop up on a few tracks as lead singer in future, and maybe do a tour with everyone in place. Hell, get them to drag Steve Porcaro out on the road as well. Dave could use a break in the show after all...

News on the new Toto album IS looking good though. Luke has actually mentioned that Steve P might be contributing, that everyone has really good song ideas and that Gregg is also now considered a full Toto member!!! The family is certainly growing....though i don't see Byron making a return any time soon

Joseph is a great singer, l enjoy the albums he did during his short stint with Toto, Bobby is great too, l just love Lukes voice, and his guitar playing is even better. Those 2 other singers they had, Fergie and Jean Michel Byron. OH MY!!!!!!! I read in a interview with Luke, that when Jean Michel Byron was singing on stage with them, people from the audience were flipping him the bird, booing him etc. Hell when he joined the band me and my mate used to wonder if it was mail or female, hehe. But l'll always remember when l first heard Luke, l borrowed the Lukather album off a mate, in the late 80's, Twist the knife came on, the harmonics, then Lukes scream, and l just loved it, it still sends shivers down my spine.

It is a shame David Paich isn' t going to tour anymore, and not record much, l hope he's still going to be writing songs though. I met David and Luke when l travelled to Jakarta to see Toto, great guys, so friendly, and they put on one hell of a performance.

Scott.

 

[Ali]

Agree with almost all of the above.

I believe the DLR reunion was halted for the exact same reason as Sammy left, their manager Ray Danniels!!! He also happened to be Alex's brother in law which made things even more difficult. The 1996 reunion was scuppered because Danniels also managed Extreme up until they split and still had Gary on his books. Allegedly he wanted Gary in the band as that would give him even more control and revenue.

Dave might live on Planet Dave but he's no fool . I think the failure of VH and Warner's to pay Dave the increased royalties on the old recordings was also a very sore sticking point when it came to light in 2000-2001. Apparently even Mike gets 3 times the royalties that Dave does, despite all the songs being written by Dave and Eddie alone. The contract was negotiated before Sammy left but no-one bothered to tell Dave until 2000-2001 at which point he demanded back payments (quite rightly) and that's when everything fell apart again. Following that, Eddie's health went into the well publicised decline.

If Sammy is, indeed, out then I suspect the VH brothers, now Ray Danniels free, would be wise to reconsider. Dave seems happy doing what Dave does, which is anything and everything outwith the norm. He's not stupid (I'd actually say he's extremely intelligent, just VERY eccentric) and I suspect he'd expect some demands to be met and some humble pie to be swallowed.

As for the live singing. Dave was useless even before they were famous. Listening to the early demos and live performances, thanks to Tim, you realise that Dave has NEVER been able to sing! He has a limited range but he gets by on sheer strength of personality and staying within his bounds. Hell, Dave was rapping on rock records before anyone understood the concept. I never got to see VH live with Dave as I was too young but I saw him in the Vai/Sheehan days and on the Little Ain't Enough tour and no-one really cared he couldn't sing to be honest. He just controlled the audience beautifully. The Sam and Dave tour was a mistake though. He should never have tackled it with a tribute band and got on with giving some of his genius solo stuffa well earned airing instead. You don't try and outperform the Wabos unless your band is tight and the amateurs Dave took out just sounded lame and soulless. However, the biggest threat to a live tour would be Eddie I'm sad to say.

Yes, Mike belongs to the Wabos, but so does Mona and she's been there from the beginning. I can't honestly see him getting any more than a guest spot.

And Byron...have you seen th euncut version of Live In Paris that the BBC broadcast? It has a lot more of Byron. It's hilarious

 

[slukather]

Agree with almost all of the above.

I believe the DLR reunion was halted for the exact same reason as Sammy left, their manager Ray Danniels!!! He also happened to be Alex's brother in law which made things even more difficult. The 1996 reunion was scuppered because Danniels also managed Extreme up until they split and still had Gary on his books. Allegedly he wanted Gary in the band as that would give him even more control and revenue.

Dave might live on Planet Dave but he's no fool . I think the failure of VH and Warner's to pay Dave the increased royalties on the old recordings was also a very sore sticking point when it came to light in 2000-2001. Apparently even Mike gets 3 times the royalties that Dave does, despite all the songs being written by Dave and Eddie alone. The contract was negotiated before Sammy left but no-one bothered to tell Dave until 2000-2001 at which point he demanded back payments (quite rightly) and that's when everything fell apart again. Following that, Eddie's health went into the well publicised decline.

If Sammy is, indeed, out then I suspect the VH brothers, now Ray Danniels free, would be wise to reconsider. Dave seems happy doing what Dave does, which is anything and everything outwith the norm. He's not stupid (I'd actually say he's extremely intelligent, just VERY eccentric) and I suspect he'd expect some demands to be met and some humble pie to be swallowed.

As for the live singing. Dave was useless even before they were famous. Listening to the early demos and live performances, thanks to Tim, you realise that Dave has NEVER been able to sing! He has a limited range but he gets by on sheer strength of personality and staying within his bounds. Hell, Dave was rapping on rock records before anyone understood the concept. I never got to see VH live with Dave as I was too young but I saw him in the Vai/Sheehan days and on the Little Ain't Enough tour and no-one really cared he couldn't sing to be honest. He just controlled the audience beautifully. The Sam and Dave tour was a mistake though. He should never have tackled it with a tribute band and got on with giving some of his genius solo stuffa well earned airing instead. You don't try and outperform the Wabos unless your band is tight and the amateurs Dave took out just sounded lame and soulless. However, the biggest threat to a live tour would be Eddie I'm sad to say.

Yes, Mike belongs to the Wabos, but so does Mona and she's been there from the beginning. I can't honestly see him getting any more than a guest spot.

Who knows what the future holds for Van Halen, fo rthe past 6-7 years, it's been a soap opera. If they decide to continue, Wheater it's with Dave or Sammy, l hope they head down the road they were heading after Balance/Humans Being, cause l really dig those songs, and l was loving where they were heading.

But l think Sam and Mike are too close of friends now, l think if Sam offered Mike a job in the Waboritas, he would take it, Mike has make alot of money over the years, we won't need it, he's probably got more money than the reast of them, Ed with his drinking/smoking habit, Al with all his Ex wifes.

And Byron...have you seen th euncut version of Live In Paris that the BBC broadcast? It has a lot more of Byron. It's hilarious

Oh man, l haven't seen that, l just shake my head at what l see in the official release, luckly, the rest of the band makes up for Byrons terrible singing voice and horrible dancing.

Scott.

P.S. I think we have hijacked Knox's thread. hehe.

 

[Ali]

Don't worry Scott, he's too busy hunting eBay for an Axis

 

[slukather]

Don't worry Scott, he's too busy hunting eBay for an Axis

So he should be!!!!!!

Scott.