Sterling Set-up and the 13th Fret...

[AnthonyD]

OK - need some help here... I do my own set-ups and while I'm no pro, I understand the mechanics and have had much success in the past. I have searched the forum and found great guidance and tips, especially from Mr. Trussbroken and Mr. Guitarz.

Unfortunately I am struggling to find the "sweet-spot" for my Sterling and haven't found anything specific to my particular troublespot - a buzz only in the higher frets. The buzz starts around the 12th fret... 13 & 14 are probably the worst and 15 makes trouble too. By the 16th fret the problem is gone. (BTW - I generally only play as high as 14 or 15, and not very often either).

I play with my fingers, right over the pick-up. I like my action very low and folks who I play with know there's plenty of fret "snap" in my style. I have always liked it - they have learned to like it!

Snap very good... Buzz very bad.

I've played with the string height and the neck relief, but it seems this area of the neck is always buzzy when I get the strings to a preferable height. I cannot understand why it's always this particular area of the neck. Is there something I am missing or do I simply need to lift the strings a bit an move on!?

 

[Joshua]

Perhaps a fret is high?

To see if the frets are level, a reliable straight edge that spans 3 frets can be used. Try different combos of 3 frets in the area, and if the straight edge rocks you have found a high fret.

The lower you like the action, the more true all the variables need to be...

 

[AnthonyD]

Thanks - I hadn't thought about that. I'll check it out, but have to locate a 2½" straight-edge first.

If that is the issue it sounds like something that would require a professional's attention. Unless anyone else has any thoughts/recommendations, I might just bring the action up a bit and call it a day...

 

[rulyøngo]

Yeah, That sounds like a high fret, any good luthier can fix that for you...

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Here's my toss.

It may be high frets but with that many, you'd have to be unlucky. A steel 6" rule is good for checking and ony costs a few dollars at a hardware.

But I suspect it could be neck relief....perhaps a little too much bow albeit only minute.

Initially, try setting the neck straight.

Looking from the heel towards the headstock, turn the truss wheel in a clockwise direction. After each adjustment, check your progress by depressing the first and 12th frets at the same time. Keep straightening to the point where there's no gap at the 5th or 6th. This is the area of the neck where the truss has the most pronounced affect on relief. If you go past that point then the neck is going into back relief (too far).

After that, adjust your string height to the point where you have no buzz (or acceptable buzz) from around the 6th fret up to the neck heel. Don't worry about the lower frets at this stage. I use the 17th fret and have the strings set the same height all the way across. For me, that's about 3/32" between the bottom of the strings to the top of the frets. That's where the 6" steel rule also comes in handy.

From there, I prefer to lower the G string 1/4 turn and adjust the A and D down proportionately to meet the G. If that introduces buzz then slightly raise all stings equal distance.

More than likely you'll have buzz at the lower frets. If you do then start adding minute amounts of relief by rotating the truss wheel counter clockwise. The correct relief (for you) will be at the point where the buzz disappears. That point will sometimes need readjusting (climate, seasonal changes etc). But that's the beauty of the capstan wheel. It can literally be adjusted in a few seconds with a babby screw driver. Also, there's no need to slacken the strings when adjusting.

All the adjustments should be done while seated with the bass on your lap (play position). That takes gravity out of the equation. If you adjust with the Bass sitting flat on a bench, the adjustments will be all out of whack when you pick it up to play.

So, that's how I set string height and relief. I play with a medium touch (whatever that means). In the end, my string height usually turns out to be a tad under 2/32" at the 12th.

Needless to say, if you fell excessive resistance when adjusting the capstan wheel, get a pro to look at it.

Also remember that all Basses are different.

Let us know

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[Rod Trussbroken]

P.S. Just raised in another thread is string guage. I heavier set may or may not help you.

.

 

[Mobay45]

Gav - The way that your instructions for set up were written above made more sense to me than anything else I've seen. Thanks.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk

Seriously, setup is, IMO, simple.

Neck relief isn't a dialed in measurement. If anyone says relief has to be, for example, .015 is pure nonsense. It depends on the instrument and the players touch. No two instruments are the same. Same with the player of the instrument. Everybody plays with a different feel and touch. Likewise with string height. The purpose of actually measuring string height (initially), is to make sure the the strings follow the radius of the fret board. There after, height is dependent on how one plays. If you have a light touch, they can go lower....dig in and they have to be higher. I do it at the 17th because the angle is larger for more accurate height setting than what it would be at the 12th fret. Lowering the G, and in-between strings, gives a smoother feel when the fingers change strings.

Taking the instrument to a tech for setup is ok but you get it back as to how the teck plays it. In most cases thats prob ok but it's not really a finely tuned setup for the player himself.

Basses are set up at the factory. But that's to make sure that the instrument is playable when it arrives to the customer. I'm sure the EB techs wouldn't suggest that factory setup is optimum for everyone. That's why EB gives advice in their FAQ.

But my rambling is getting away from adelucia's prob I suppose

 

[AnthonyD]

Wow - thanks for the additional insight. I had researched your earlier "works" and found them very helpful. This is more great info!

I've been trying varied degrees of relief, giving the bass 20 minutes or more between changes to allow the adjustment to settle in, then resetting action, tuning and intonation.

I had not gone as far as setting the neck "straight" and I like the process and the order of the steps you've outlined here. I will definitely give this a try.

I've been playing on the stock Super Slinkys. I like the feel and the sound of the round-wounds. I saw the comments regarding the heavier strings here and may give that a try as well.

Thanks so much for the guidance - I probably won't have an opportunity to work with it again until tomorrow evening... I will report my results in a few days!

 

[AnthonyD]

But my rambling is getting away from adelucia's prob I suppose

No, no, no... Rambling => Good!

Seriously, it's all great info, and I agree 100%. How hard we press the strings, whether we use a pick or fingers, where we strike the strings, what style or approach, etc. - all these things factor into the set-up for any particular individual.

 

[tkarter]

I copied you setup guide there saved it as a text file. Going to print a copy and it goes in the case with my SR5. Let me know if you copyright that text Gav I will pay the fee for reprinting.

The best explanation I have heard on how to achieve setup.

tk

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

tk...it's a general chat Forum to discuss and share info from our own experiences

Copyright? Get outta here

 

[tkarter]

It was that good and should be posted anywhere anyone asks how to setup a bass or even a guitar. I imagine it would work on a fiddle too. Wait they don't have frets.

Wait some of those Stingrays don't have frets either. Now how we gonna set one of them up?


tk

 

[AnthonyD]

The good, the bad & the ugly...

OK - spent a few hours tinkering around and I'm pretty sure I have a high fret.

I started by installing a new set of strings - went for Regular Slinkys this time (50-105) and notice immediately that this gauge provided a better balance in string volume. Gone was the "weak G" - very nice.

I set the neck straight, initially going just far enough to introduce some back relief. Holding the E at the 2nd and 12th fret (help from the wife), I checked the clearance at the 6th fret with a piece of paper and a business card. Initially there was a slight drag on the paper and I backed off just enough until the drag was gone with the paper and minimal with the business card.

I then lowered the action, tuned and intonated. I began to get the action incredibly low and clean (I was getting very excited!). The E and G were clear all over the neck and the A was pretty close, with just a bit of trouble around 12th, 13th & 14th fret. Unfortunately, the D was big trouble in that same region...

Basically, fretting a note on the D at the 15th fret or higher was no trouble, but fretting the E note at the 14th fret was a complete mess. I take this as a sign that the 15th fret is high. Moving down the neck from the 14th fret to 13 and 12 shows a reduction in the buzz. Below the 12th fret it's gone.

Also, no issue with the E or the G strings at the 14th fret - I assume it's because of the taper at the edge of the fret. And if I push the E note on the D string up a ½-step, the buzz is gone. I expect partly because of the increased pressure on the string but also expect it's partly because I am moving the string away from the trouble spot over to where the A string crosses the fret.

Set-up now is about 1/16th at the 5th fret and a hair under 3/32nds at the 12th fret on the E. The other strings are at a comparable height - all follow the radius of the fretboard. I still have a slight buzz at 14 on the D, but that's all. I realize this clearance might sound low for some, but I was going for a bit less - hoping to shave an additional 1/32nd.

Does this make sense or am I missing something? I plan to give Customer Service a call next week to see if this is a warranty issue and how best to handle - One year anniversary will be in July.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

In my opinion, you've basically gone about things the correct way.

What you have to remember is that the lower you set your string height, the more critical it becomes for the frets to be super level.

If I understand you correctly, the main problem (and only problem now) is fretting the D at the 14th!!!??? If that's the case then the 15th is probably just a tad high.

What I'd do at this point is to raise the D untill the buzz goes away. The D saddle screws probably only need raising by a 1/4 turn. Then go on to set the other 3 strings to the same height as the D (measuring at the 17th as before).

If the strings now feel too high (which I doubt) then perhaps the fret may need attention. You may have get Jon's advice. Of course, the problem may be something completely different.

.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

I forgot to add:

When you adjust for straightness of the neck, the best way is to depress the 1st fret with a finger of the left hand. At same time, use the thumb of your right hand to depress at the 12th in such a way that the middle finger of your right hand is pointing in the direction of the nut. With both frets now depressed, use that middle finger to depress the E string at the 5th or 6th. As the neck gets straighter and the gap gets smaller between the fret and string, tap the middle finger over the 5th or 6th. You'll actually hear if there's still a gap (a little pinking noise). Once the neck is straight, you wont hear any noise when when taping.

There's no need for paper or a card. Once you've done your string height to a point where there's no buzz from the 5th (or 6th) up to the heel of the neck, go down to the area of the first five frets. If there's no buzz then there's no need for truss adjustment. If there is buzz in that area, then gradually add small amounts of relief untill the buzz vanishes.

That's the optimum truss setting for the person playing the instrument. There is no predetermined measurable gap setting.

Perhaps I should stress again. If resistance is felt when adjusting the neck straight, it should be left. On a lot of instruments, that's taking the truss adjustment to its very limit (especially Bullet truss necks). Some necks wont adjust straight at the 5th or 6th but will go straight further up the neck. You can get to a point where there's still gap at the 5th but further up, the neck is going into back bow.

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[AnthonyD]

Thanks - I recognize that the lower the action is set, the tighter the tolerances need to be.

The issue is definitely fretting a note at the 14th fret on the D, and to a lesser extent on the A.

What was startling is that I was able to get the action extremely low - even for my tastes - and play cleanly from 15th fret to the heel (of course, in reality I never play that high on the neck - not that there's anything wrong with that!).

Once I get to 14 - BAM - dead in the water. Moving down the neck has the problem lessening until it goes away around the 12th or 11th and then again plays cleanly all the way back to the 1st.

Also, with the remaining strings set similarly low, the E & G are are buzz-free up and down the neck. The A has a little problem in the same area, though significantly less. The D is the real trouble.

For now I have the action up a bit as described above - certainly playable and as I said, I'm rarely up that high anyway.

 

[jongitarz]

A good rule of thumb is if it is buzzing above the12th tighten the truss rod (less relief) and then raise the saddles slightly

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

That's my understanding Jon. Buzz at top frets...too much relief. Buzz at bottom frets...not enough relief.

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[jongitarz]

Yep...Thats the ticket