Stingray HT manufacturing defect ?

[Fr0g]

Hi, just opened a ticket for this but I would like to hear your advices. I own a Stingray HT from 2024 and I took it to a luthier for a set up before tuning it to C standard. when doing the set up for the intonation he was forced to use the lowest setting on the tune o matic bridge, for the third string in particular. So he immediately thought that the extreme settings to get the intonation right were to compensate an issue with the neck, like maybe a missing neck pocket shim. So he tried to remove the neck, but he only managed to remove the first screw (and it was pretty hard) no way he could remove the other screws, he would have damaged the wood, it was like the damn thing was glued. At this point I must say that the man is not a newbie and he's at it for more than 30 years but that was the first time he encountered such issue. After measuring the space between the bottom of the neck and the neck pocket he understood that the neck is not resting properly at the bottom of the neck pocket. He advised me to contact music man of course. Am I the only one who encountered this issue ?

 

[Sweat]

Nope, and why???????????? not intended for the tuning you want and never an issue removing a neck

 

[tbonesullivan]

I am questioning your "luthier's" abilities, as I have never heard of someone unable to remove neck screws. Are you the original owner of the guitar? Was it ever exposed to excessive moisture? Did they even bother to re-slot the nut and/or the bridge? or are you trying to use standard gauge strings on a 25.5 scale instrument and seriously use C-standard?

 

[dibart77]

I have removed dozens of EBMM necks and never an issue. You need a big enough philips screwdriver and ideally one with a rubberized handle for good grip. But this should not be hard. Put the guitar face down on your padded guitar bench so the neck is face down on the padding. Then put a little weight on it to ensure a good bite in the neck screws (so you don't mess up the philips socket) and turn. If you have a small screwdriver you can't get the right torque. I also question your luthier's skills... this should be a non-issue for him. I can't speak to setting the guitar up for C standard (a full 2-steps down) but I would assume you'll need heavier gauge strings and might need to file the nut slots.

 

[Fr0g]

Ok, I was expecting this kind of answers. So :

1) I used a Ernie Ball 12 56 not even slinky set of strings which is recommended for this kind of tuning. Of course my luthier tuned all the parameters of the guitar to fit this tuning but when measuring the space between neck and body he saw that the neck is not resting properly at the bottom of the neck pocket which is why he wanted to remove the neck, to check if everything is in place, or if a neck pocket shim is missing.

and

2) As stated previously this man is a professional for almost 4 decades, doing guitar maintenance and creating instruments for bands playing at big festival like Hellfest and such so he's pretty reliable. He's also doing the maintenance on my HH telecaster and he's doing a great job. Guitar was bought new and it's in perfect condition, I take care of it, not exposing it to moisture, dirt, sunlight or heat. I really wonder why the screws are so hard to take out on a relatively new instrument...

 

[DrKev]

Folks, we don't need to second guess the tech, I'm sure he knows what he's doing. Trying to force the screws out risks breaking the head off or stripping the head and then drilling them out is the only way forward and nobody wants that. This sounds like appropriate prudence to me.

@Fr0g Just to confirm, you are you the first owner of this guitar and it was bought new by you? Where do you live and where did you buy the guitar?

All being well and normal, no screw requires more force to take out of wood than it takes to put it in for the first time. I can only think of two things...

1) Somebody somewhere glued the screws in. I've never heard of anyone doing it and there is zero reason to ever do it. (But humans as a species can be as dumb as they are creative, so I guess anything is possible.) If that is the case I would try heating the screws to weaken the bond. One screw at a time, apply maybe a clean big low temp soldering iron (don't get solder in the screw head) and I would not get the screws htter than maybe 160ºF/70ºC.

2) Somehow the screws are bent. In the past I have come across bent neck screws, which turned with great difficulty. Presumably somebody or something applied force and the neck tried to separate from the body. The gap between the neck and body could be evidence of that here. The screws would be bent in the process. With the neck on one half of the screw and the body on the other, means they can't turn. But the force required to bend all all four screws and none of them move and the guitar is otherwise in good condition? And how would we solve such a problem?

K

 

[Fr0g]

Hi, thanks for your answer, I'm based in France and I ordered the guitar from a shop in Netherlands, I was thinking the guitar was new since it was in mint conditions from a pro seller. I just wrote a mail to the shop and the seller confirmed that the guitar was second hand and that the first owner kept it for a year. But again there's no damage to the guitar, it arrived as new in the Mono case. My luthier managed to remove one screw but that was pretty hard to unscrew and to screw it back in, he did not mentioned that the screw was bent, he also mentioned that he was pretty sure that the neck has never been unmounted since it left the factory. Regarding the "gap" between the neck and the body it's not a huge one, from what he told me it's just a little bit more spaced than it should be. In the end he managed to tune the guitar properly, the bridge saddle on the third string is at the lowest setting possible, but of course he advised me to contact MusicMan regarding the neck since it should not be a problem to take it appart.
My main fear is, since I have the combo :

- Bridge saddle on the third string set back to the max

- Stubborn neck screws

- neck not resting properly in the bottom of the neck pocket

Could it be that the problem is a slightly out of tolerance assembly ?

 

[DrKev]

Hi, thanks for your answer, I'm based in France and I ordered the guitar from a shop in Netherlands, I was thinking the guitar was new since it was in mint conditions from a pro seller. I just wrote a mail to the shop and the seller confirmed that the guitar was second hand and that the first owner kept it for a year. But again there's no damage to the guitar, it arrived as new in the Mono case. My luthier managed to remove one screw but that was pretty hard to unscrew and to screw it back in, he did not mentioned that the screw was bent, he also mentioned that he was pretty sure that the neck has never been unmounted since it left the factory. Regarding the "gap" between the neck and the body it's not a huge one, from what he told me it's just a little bit more spaced than it should be. In the end he managed to tune the guitar properly, the bridge saddle on the third string is at the lowest setting possible, but of course he advised me to contact MusicMan regarding the neck since it should not be a problem to take it appart.

OK. So I'm guessing the problem is the result of damage rather than manufacturing. More importantly, as the instrument is 2nd hand, the issue may have existed before the instrument was received by you. That's important!

As you bought from a shop in the EU, you may have warranty protection. That means the shop in the Netherlands would have to make this right, even for 2nd hand goods. If you are in the first year after you received the goods, manufacturing defects, or other hidden faults are assumed to have occurred before you received it. And that's the EU minimum so it is possible that a longer period applies in some countries.

Guarantees on goods bought in the EU - Your Europe

Read how to claim the 2-year legal guarantee or the commercial guarantee of durability for EU purchases, know the difference, read what the EU guarantee label means, how to get a repair, replacement or refund.

europa.eu

As you bought the guitar in the Netherlands, the Dutch warranty rules apply, rather than the French rules. You should do the research and find out exactly what those rules are. If you are covered under warranty protection, it will be cheaper for you (or even at no cost to you) to have the store in the Netherlands do the repair work.

Music man will almost certainly not be able to help you in this case. Of course there is very little they can do "à distance" other than perhaps give advice but they don't have the guitar in front of them. They also have no part in a warranty claim in the European system. You could, with their prior authorization, ship the instrument back to Music Man for them to do any repairs, but that would be very very expensive for you.

Kev.

 

[Fr0g]

Yeah of course that's a possibility, but as stated the guitar arrived in perfect conditions there's nothing that could lead to believe that the previous owner did anything wrong to the guitar, in fact it's rather the opposite, he probably bought a nice guitar and never touched it. So yes, I'll probably contact the shop (which by the way has a good reputation with zero negative feedback) but to me this is obviously a manufacturing defect, one that's hard to detect at QC but still a manufacturing defect on a 3000 euros guitar that is two years old, and from what I understand Music Man will blame the first owner, fair game, but I'll never buy any instrument from them again.

 

[beej]

It's very unusual to have seized neck screws. I've never personally had that issue (having taken off a lot of Music Man necks), nor have I heard of it being an issue. I don't see how it would be a manufacturing issue, but it certainly could be. Could also be that the previous owner did something. As Kev said, it's impossible to know what the deal is without having the guitar in front of us to see.

In any case, have you reached out to Music Man at all? Even if they can't help you with a warranty claim, they're generally pretty helpful.

I'd try that and ask for help before jumping right to, "I'll never buy any instrument from them again."

 

[Fr0g]

I've opened a ticket for this of course, it's just that blaming it on the first owner is a bit easy, the guitar is less than 2 years old, it was virtually new when I bought it, when working on it my Luthier pointed out that it was like new, there's absolutely nothing that could point to a guitar damaged by a previous owner hence why he advised me to contact Music Man as he was thinking about a possible hidden flaw that went through QC. I just find the whole "it's 100% the first owner fault" thing a bit lame for a 3K euros guitar, so I hope customer service will help me with this...

 

[DrKev]

I've opened a ticket for this of course, it's just that blaming it on the first owner is a bit easy,

I understand why you say that but I am not going for the easy option, but stating what I think the most likely cause. My opinion is based on my professional experience with guitars (as an experienced guitar tech and customer service for a very large music store). Screws don't get bent without significant force. I don't see how that happens with a screwdriver in any factory. So that's my logic. And I don't work for Music Man, I volunteer my time to the forum community to help people and keep the forum running smoothly, so I have need to defend Music Man.

But again, what is important is this happened before you received the instrument. And if you are within the appropriate period under EU (or Dutch law if longer), the store will make this right, as it is their legal responsibility to do.

Bon nuit !

 

[tbonesullivan]

I've opened a ticket for this of course, it's just that blaming it on the first owner is a bit easy, the guitar is less than 2 years old, it was virtually new when I bought it, when working on it my Luthier pointed out that it was like new, there's absolutely nothing that could point to a guitar damaged by a previous owner hence why he advised me to contact Music Man as he was thinking about a possible hidden flaw that went through QC. I just find the whole "it's 100% the first owner fault" thing a bit lame for a 3K euros guitar, so I hope customer service will help me with this...

Honestly, your entire chain of comments is a bit questionable. You didn't even know that the guitar was used until apparently recently? I am finding all of this very hard to swallow, especially when spending that amount of money. As someone who has owned countless bolt on guitars / basses, many from Music Man, and never had any difficulty getting a neck screw out. "It looks new" is equally a "bit lame". For people who really care for their guitars, looking "new" after a few years is BASIC, unless you are a touring musician.

At the end of the day you have no idea how the guitar was treated by the previous owner. You have no idea if they didn't like the action and decided to shim it themselves, and cranked down all the way on the screws with too big of a shim, which could definitely cause a neck pocket space. If they have a good properly sized screwdriver that would also make it much more likely that no damage was incurred on the Phillips head screws, even if they are over torqued.