String Easily Slips (Drops) from Fretboard on some SBMM instruments (?).

[kuroinu]

Hello everyone. First of all, I want to apologize in advance to bring such a heated discussion about the issue at hand. I just want to sort this problem out cause, other than the topic I am about to discuss, I truly love my SBMM instruments (I’m trying to find reasons not to sell them). I also warn you that I am not a professional player nor a musican, I am no technician either. I’m just in for the love of music and the instrument.

Last year I bought a used JP60-BKM SBMM guitar. I felt in love of the shape, neck profile, neck width, knobs position, finish etc. I did however noticed that the high E string would slip from the fretboard as soon as I would pull it slightly downwards (especially at the 9, 10, 11, and 12th fret). I ended up keeping it cause I thought it was a consequence of the narrow width of the fretboard (?) as well as the neck profile (I thought I could get used to it). Anyhow, I was so happy that I decided to buy another JP SBMM guitar, namely the JP100D, but the same high E string problem was still present. I was so enamored by the JP models (minus the string slippage of course), that I decided to get a JP150 NBL, and it did had the same issue.

I ended up returning the JP150 due to another couple of reasons (I didn’t find it as ergonomic as the JP60), and decided to be happy with my JP60 and my JP100D. Fast forward a couple of months, and this video ends up in my YouTube homepage (a somewhat informative video, yet a bit incendiary for my taste).

The TLDR of the review is that the JP100D shown has two main issues: tuning stability and string slippage. This video made me wonder if this “problem” was more of a design flaw rather than a natural consequence of the neck design. On the video shown, the host in question suggest that the slippage might be caused by either a “badly cut nut” or by a miscalculation of the proportion between the width of the bridge and the of the neck.

If you can stomach many mislead, biased, and/or ill-informed comments on the Comment Section, you might notice many people report the same issue (string drop) on some of the JP SBMM models. There are also some people suggesting.that the problem is present on a wide range of SBMM models, such as the Lukes, the Richardsons, and the Van Halens (a viewer also says he had the same experience with a Stingray Bass). Moreover, some people comment that this is issue is present on the main Music Man models.

I decided to seek guidance from a professional that could clarify me what was going on, so I went to see my trusted technican. After he examined my two JP models, he concluded that the neck was indeed aligned and that the nut was cut correctly, but that the problem was that (maybe) the bridge wasn’t designed to accommodate such a narrow neck. His solution was to replace the bridge with one that had smaller string spacing…if such thing exists (maybe I need a second opinion?).

All of this brings me to today and the reason I am turning to the Music Man community. I would like to know if this is an ongoing issue with SBMM models (or was), if this is present on the MM current models, if the Majesty has fixed this issue, if anyone else had this problem, if there is a solution, or if all this is a natural consequence of the neck dimensions and one have to accommodate bends/pulloffs on the high E string to avoid any string drop.

I have played/own other guitar from different brands (Ibanez, Schecter, ESP LTD, Jackson), and I have never noticed any issue at how I bend or pullout on the high E string. Anyway, at this point, any kind of information/advice/encouragement helps. Thank you so much.

 

[fbecir]

Hello

I do not own a Sterling JP, but problems with string alignment is quite common. Did you watch this video :

This video was made by Kevin (DrKev, one of our excellent moderator on this forum).

First thing you have to check is the dot markers on your neck and the distance between them an the D and G strings.

 

[jayjayjay]

I also don't have a JP, but it happens to me on one of my SbMM Axis. Neck alignment is dead-on - it's because of fret sprout in my case. The slight fret ends can hook the string, which is set relatively close to the edge of the neck on pretty much every Axis I've ever seen. I could pull out my fret files and fix it, but honestly, I can't think of a time it's happened while I was playing. The only times it happens are when I pick the guitar up by the neck and accidently force the string over the edge as I grab.

 

[DonA]

I've found the fret ends on my Cutlass RS HSS are beveled over more than most guitars. This can lead to the chance of slipping off the fret when playing the high E. It's not as bad as a traditional Strat with a 2-7/32" string spacing at the bridge, but it'd be even better if the fret ends weren't as beveled as they are.

 

[msquared]

This actually happened quite a bit with a Stingray 5 bass I had for a long time. I've never noticed it with any SBMM guitars personally.

 

[kingdoublecut]

Yep...same problem on my JP60. I currently have 5 SbMM guitars and have owned many more. This is the only one I have had this issue with.

 

[DrKev]

I love Glenn Fricker, and where is an expert he really needs to be listened to. However, that doesn’t apply so much in this case.

1) Warranties exist for a reason. If you buy a new instrument from an authorized dealer, this kind of issue will be taken care of.
2) I’m not even sure it’s a new instrument which means we have no guarantee whatsoever that it actually came from the factory like this or how it was treated before it got to Glenn.
3) Glenn is wrong about on some points and is clearly not a guitar expert. So I say to the SBMM owners, don’t worry about this, there’s no evidence that we see (on this forum, for example) of more production problems with those guitars compared to any other brand at the same price point.

I did a little video to discuss some of the problems with Glenn’s video. Enjoy!

How Glenn Fricker Messed Up (with his Sterling by Music Man guitar rant).

 

[Johnny Alien]

That video is the worst. That guy is ham fisting and pulling on strings and then saying "see how that falls off and chokes out?". Not saying there are no issues but at least part of that is your silly technique. Has zero knowledge of the company and grades it as if its new when its used.

 

[Ninemile]

I just grabbed a few different guitars and on every one of them I can slightly pull down on my high E and pull it right off the fretboard. It's no different on the SBMM or my EBMM or my Tele or my PRS. Fortunately, I rarely pull down on my high E to bend.

There's no doubt that the EBMM necks are narrower than many other guitars and my playing had to compensate for that. It took me about 5 minutes with my first Axis Sport to get used to the neck. The it took me a month or so to stop the high E from slipping off the fretboard, even when I wasn't doing a bend. It was all in my technique. Now, I never pull it off.

I have a Sterling Axis. The neck is much larger than the EBMM and wider. I even changed out the stock bridge and installed a typical Tele bridge which moved my high E even closer to the edge, but it still does not come close to sliding off when I play.

I'd almost say that these necks are what they are, and the best solution might be a tweak to your playing technique.

 

[1960LesPaul]

I own a JP100D. It's the guitar that made me want a real EBMM JP. I was having lots of tuning issues so I replaced the nut with a Graphtech Tusq XL nut. Problem solved. I also used nut sauce on the posts and saddles. Super stable on dives and pull ups now and is much better than the JP12 is concerned as far as tuning reliability. But I have a lot more time invested in the Sterling. I just got the JP12 which is the superior guitar aside from trem use so far. I was getting the string pull off on the Sterling but I was using 9s at a half step. Kept breaking the high E at a break point at the bridge. I love 9s at a half step but they felt too slinky on this guitar. 10s feel perfect. I stopped pulling the E off the fretboard. Haven't broken the high E yet but I just changed that a few days ago.

 

[Ninemile]

I just watched the first video. It's not the guitar, it's his technique. Plain and simple. I was there once and it used to happen to me. It's been years since I've done that with my high E.

 

[kuroinu]

Hello again everyone. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply. I want to address something before replying to each specific comment.

To those suggesting the problem might be due to neck misalignment, I am almost sure it is not. I have checked again with my technician about the alignment on both of my JPs and it is dead on. Furthermore, I have tried to diagnose misalignment by my own (following some guides and images from google) and I have come empty handed. Perhaps we are wrong, but I doubt that three different models from three different eras (JP60, JP100D, JP150) have the same misalignment causing the same issue. I don't know, it sounds suspicious. Regardless, I do want to thank for those who suggested this as the root of the "problem".

Hello

I do not own a Sterling JP, but problems with string alignment is quite common. Did you watch this video :

This video was made by Kevin (DrKev, one of our excellent moderator on this forum).

First thing you have to check is the dot markers on your neck and the distance between them an the D and G strings.

Thank you for sharing Dr.Kev video, it was really helpful. Here is something curious though. On his video he uses the inlays on the fretboard as a reference to diagnose neck misalignment. However, on the JP models the inlays are NOT ALIGNED from the get go. This is an image of the most recent JP6, and I hope you can appreciate how the inlays are closer to the 4th string than to the 3rd string. The same can be seen on the JP15 (or JP150 for that matter). I haven't checked if the inlays aren't aligned on the Majesty too.

I also don't have a JP, but it happens to me on one of my SbMM Axis. Neck alignment is dead-on - it's because of fret sprout in my case. The slight fret ends can hook the string, which is set relatively close to the edge of the neck on pretty much every Axis I've ever seen. I could pull out my fret files and fix it, but honestly, I can't think of a time it's happened while I was playing. The only times it happens are when I pick the guitar up by the neck and accidently force the string over the edge as I grab.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I didn't considered the shape of the fret as an issue. This might be the cause on my Ibanezes, I can tell that there is a microscopic bump at the end of the frets that prevent the string from slipping off easily from the fretboard. I mean, Ibanez Wizard III neck is wider than the one on the JPs, but still that small bump might help.

I've found the fret ends on my Cutlass RS HSS are beveled over more than most guitars. This can lead to the chance of slipping off the fret when playing the high E. It's not as bad as a traditional Strat with a 2-7/32" string spacing at the bridge, but it'd be even better if the fret ends weren't as beveled as they are.

Thank you for sharing! Indeed, it does seem that the bevels not he fret ends do not help at all in such a narrow neck.

This actually happened quite a bit with a Stingray 5 bass I had for a long time. I've never noticed it with any SBMM guitars personally.

I see. Did you experience this on the top string or on the bottom? Would you mind sharing what SBMM do you use? Just to know if you haven't noticed the issue on the JP Model.

Yep...same problem on my JP60. I currently have 5 SbMM guitars and have owned many more. This is the only one I have had this issue with.

Such a shame that the JP60 is the only one with this issue. What other SBMM do you own?

I love Glenn Fricker, and where is an expert he really needs to be listened to. However, that doesn’t apply so much in this case.

1) Warranties exist for a reason. If you buy a new instrument from an authorized dealer, this kind of issue will be taken care of.
2) I’m not even sure it’s a new instrument which means we have no guarantee whatsoever that it actually came from the factory like this or how it was treated before it got to Glenn.
3) Glenn is wrong about on some points and is clearly not a guitar expert. So I say to the SBMM owners, don’t worry about this, there’s no evidence that we see (on this forum, for example) of more production problems with those guitars compared to any other brand at the same price point.

I did a little video to discuss some of the problems with Glenn’s video. Enjoy!

How Glenn Fricker Messed Up (with his Sterling by Music Man guitar rant).

Hello Dr.Kev. You are probably a busy man, thanks for taking the time to answer. I am also fond of Glenn's content and his "no bullshit" attitude. But sometimes I think he gets carried away in his anger and persona, rendering his opinion more incendiary than informed/eloquent. I didn't took his opinion as true since I am aware he isn't a player not a technican (to complain about the tuning inastibily on a non fixed bridge guitar is such an "amateur" move to me). But still, his opinion made me wonder what was going on, if there was any issue at all or not.

I watched your response to Glenn's video. I do agree with everything you say. However, I want to inform you that the topic I am discing isn't due to neck misalignment (see the first paragraph). Or maybe it is and both my technican and I can't tell. I would love for you to personally inspect my guitars, but unfortunately we are really far away. Some people is suggesting this might problem might be a combination between the small neck width and the bevels on he fret ends...what do you think about that?

By the way, I also checked your video about adjusting the neck alignment. You used the dot inlays as one of the references to diagnose this. Turns out the inlays on the JP6, JP60, JP15, and the JP150 are not aligned from the factory. At least, not what I can tell from the instruments I own and from photos on the web.

I just grabbed a few different guitars and on every one of them I can slightly pull down on my high E and pull it right off the fretboard. It's no different on the SBMM or my EBMM or my Tele or my PRS. Fortunately, I rarely pull down on my high E to bend.

There's no doubt that the EBMM necks are narrower than many other guitars and my playing had to compensate for that. It took me about 5 minutes with my first Axis Sport to get used to the neck. The it took me a month or so to stop the high E from slipping off the fretboard, even when I wasn't doing a bend. It was all in my technique. Now, I never pull it off.

I have a Sterling Axis. The neck is much larger than the EBMM and wider. I even changed out the stock bridge and installed a typical Tele bridge which moved my high E even closer to the edge, but it still does not come close to sliding off when I play.

I'd almost say that these necks are what they are, and the best solution might be a tweak to your playing technique.

Thank you for testing this problem on other guitars. I can also somewhat reproduce the same issue on my Ibanez, but I do have to admit that on the Wizard III neck there is more space between the first string and the fretboard edge. It is not much, but it is enough to avoid slipping off the fretboard once the bend is finished.

I am glad to know you did noticed something "off" on your first Axis. It gives me peace to know I am not imagining stuff, and the in the end all can be corrected with technique. My main goal with discing this topic is to understand if there is a manufacturing/design issue, or if "these necks are what they are, and the best solution might be a tweak to your playing technique". Your answer has made me see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I own a JP100D. It's the guitar that made me want a real EBMM JP. I was having lots of tuning issues so I replaced the nut with a Graphtech Tusq XL nut. Problem solved. I also used nut sauce on the posts and saddles. Super stable on dives and pull ups now and is much better than the JP12 is concerned as far as tuning reliability. But I have a lot more time invested in the Sterling. I just got the JP12 which is the superior guitar aside from trem use so far. I was getting the string pull off on the Sterling but I was using 9s at a half step. Kept breaking the high E at a break point at the bridge. I love 9s at a half step but they felt too slinky on this guitar. 10s feel perfect. I stopped pulling the E off the fretboard. Haven't broken the high E yet but I just changed that a few days ago.

I am using .9 on my JP100D in Standard E and .11 on my JP60 on Standard D. As explained, I am having the same issue on both guitars. Maybe I should change the size on both of them? What do you suggest? One final question, you mention you just got the JP12. Do you experience this issue on that guitar too? I am trying to understand if this is something only occurring on the JPs from SBMM, or I also affects the MM models.

I just watched the first video. It's not the guitar, it's his technique. Plain and simple. I was there once and it used to happen to me. It's been years since I've done that with my high E.

Yeah, his technique isn't the best. He is not a professional player after all. But I still wanted to know if the issue is a consequence of the neck design or if there was any flaw in some of the design.

 

[Ninemile]

DrKev, great video, I love it!

 

[1960LesPaul]

Hello again everyone. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply. I want to address something before replying to each specific comment.

To those suggesting the problem might be due to neck misalignment, I am almost sure it is not. I have checked again with my technician about the alignment on both of my JPs and it is dead on. Furthermore, I have tried to diagnose misalignment by my own (following some guides and images from google) and I have come empty handed. Perhaps we are wrong, but I doubt that three different models from three different eras (JP60, JP100D, JP150) have the same misalignment causing the same issue. I don't know, it sounds suspicious. Regardless, I do want to thank for those who suggested this as the root of the "problem".



Thank you for sharing Dr.Kev video, it was really helpful. Here is something curious though. On his video he uses the inlays on the fretboard as a reference to diagnose neck misalignment. However, on the JP models the inlays are NOT ALIGNED from the get go. This is an image of the most recent JP6, and I hope you can appreciate how the inlays are closer to the 4th string than to the 3rd string. The same can be seen on the JP15 (or JP150 for that matter). I haven't checked if the inlays aren't aligned on the Majesty too.


I am using .9 on my JP100D in Standard E and .11 on my JP60 on Standard D. As explained, I am having the same issue on both guitars. Maybe I should change the size on both of them? What do you suggest? One final question, you mention you just got the JP12. Do you experience this issue on that guitar too? I am trying to understand if this is something only occurring on the JPs from SBMM, or I also affects the MM models.

No issues with the string pulling off on the JP12. It only did it on the Sterling and I can't really say if it was the heavier gauge or I'm just aware of it and making sure I don't do it

 

[beej]

Ugh. I can't stand that guy.

 

[kingdoublecut]

AX20 - upgraded to AT-1/Tone Zone, AL40, two Silo SUB HSS - one upgraded SD pups/one stock. About to pull the trigger on an LK100d. It will be the 4th I've owned.