String Vibrato on my balls.

[Spudmurphy]

Wind back to the 70's - I've been brought up on The Beatles, made my first foray into alternative music by buying the Black Sabbath album and then I'm knocked for 6 (USA = Home run) when I hear Free and Paul Kossoff. I also hear some nice things being played by Mick Ronson.
What is it that draws me to their playing like a moth to a bright light?
Their use of Vibrato - especially Kossoffs. So I trade in my SG and get myself a Les Paul to emulate my guitar hero (players still do it now a daze!).
I develop a great vibrato but I am pulling the string down rather than pushing it up. Now that causes problems as you can gather when you play the top E or B string. I struggle along and I'm stymied by my inability to develop a vibrato "on the up". I try all gauges of strings but to no avail.

Wind forward to 2005, - Spud decides to start playing guitar again after a long break and the quandary is "Do I get another guitar?" After all, I still have my old gear - still have the Les Paul, a hand built Tele, my trusty Marshall Silver Jub.

So I'm thinking along the lines of getting a Tele. Then I Hear the sound of Albert Lee. What the hell is that I ask myself - doesn't sound like a Tele to me. Quite by chance a mate of mine was in the market for a new guitar and saw Albert play in Cardiff and met him and talked to him about "his" guitar. He tells me about it. A few weeks later a bass player shows me his EB Stingray.
The penny drops - "Ernie Ball" make guitars?

So I watch videos of Albert, join the forum ask loads of questions about The AL. Some guy with a crazy Al gives me some info (Mr Greene sir - thank you)
.. and the rest is history.

I bond with that guitar immediately - The Les Paul gets consigned to it's case, I give my Mahog body Tele to my son and later buy another Al.

So I digress ..... Vibrato. Having taken up guitar after a long lay off I try to play differently - why just rehash the stuff I did in the 70's? I still try to play the vibrato "on the up " again and after some perseverance it starts to develop. I also try to play with the pick and my fingers- previously anathema to me!! Wow - why couldn't I do this years ago I ask myself. I go back to the LP I go back to the Tele and find that although the vib is better than before I can't get it as good as when I play the Al.

So for me, bonding with my 'balls has developed my style - it still needs some work but it's sooooooooo much better.

The vibrato "on the down " is still there.
Both these techniques require the tips of the fingers - ok no problem there. It's now when I try to play vibrato when the finger is flat on the fretboard that I still have problems. I make excuses to myself saying - well yer hands aren't huge and you've developed yer vib - live with what ya got.

I don't wish to sound like a blog - but I am a firm believer in the fact that EB guitars have helped me start playing again ( I gotta tip a wink to Line6 pod along the way - silent practice with some great sounds). EB guitars have made playing easier for me. EB guitars has sated my appetite.

oh yeah - any tips on Vibrato techniques would be welcome. - and I apologise for the wall of text.

 

[aleclee]

My situation was similar. About 10 years ago I picked up guitar again after a long hiatus. My #1 was a Strat that I never really bonded with--one of a number of reasons why I went on hiatus in the first place. I had earned some goodwill from the wife so I got a PRS and was amazed at how I could hear things in my playing that I couldn't with the Strat and could flat out play better.

Fast forward to 2010 and it's playing out again with an Axis Rosewood (or two). My playing has improved more in the six months since I got my first EBMM than it had in the greater part of a decade.

Thanks, BP!

 

[Jimmyb]

I'm with you Spud, most of my vibrato is pulling down, it just seems easier for me (and I'm very lazy!!)|

The only time it's different, is when I'm bending upwards and then doing some vibrato (ala DG).

Maybe one day I'll get the hang of it, although I'm not holding my breath...

 

[douglasspears]

The only time it's different, is when I'm bending upwards and then doing some vibrato (ala DG).

yeah, Spud, I was going to ask, what about when you bend a note up a 1/2 or whole step, don't you bend it "on the up"? If so, do you use vibrato in that situation? If so, it seems it'd be an easy transition to bend "on the up" w/out having the bend in the first place.

Man, there's some terrible vibrato out there, where folks seemingly just "shake" the string at a fast pace without it being musical at all. Sounds like you are trying to avoid this and really focusing on a good vibrato. That's a great start!

To me, when done right, the listener (or player for that matter) doesn't ever even notice the vibrato, it's just so smooth and fitting to the song and mood at hand, that it fits in seamlessly.

Good luck in your quest!

 

[edhalen]

For me the vibrato "on the up" had to be accomplished because of the old EVH stuff. He had the absolute best back then to my ears. I just had to figure out how to do that.

I, too have recently been bitten by the guitar playing bug thanks to Musicman - although my Sterling Silo 30 will have to do - and it does well for the $. It has made playing fun again - actually more fun than the past 20 years combined on my old strat copy!

 

[straycat113]

Well Spud till this day Kossoffs vibrato is still ranked as one of the best ever. Maybe one of the most overlooked and important techniques is a great vibrato as it is really a players DNA.Clapton,SRV,Angus,The 3 Kings and Santana were probably the guys I paid most attention to in that department. I used to think BB Kings playing was so simple till I spent a year heavily into him, and he loves that step and a half bend with his index finger which is a real mother.lol I pull down on the low E-A-and D and push up on the high E-B and G. I found it really strange that you used to pull down on the high E as you had to go off the board everytime you bent a whole step.lol Just make sure you reinforce your bends with your other fingers. If I bend C on the high E on the 8th fret to D on the 10th my middle finger is behind it on the 7th and my index on the 6th. Try 10 minutes a day just working on your bends and vibrato on the high E as it has the most tension, and you will have it down pact in a month.

 

[nathanhny]

I found using those gripmaster devices really great. They build your finger muscles, making it easier for string bends and wide vibratos. Listening to a lot of Lukater helped me aswell

 

[agt]

Great post, Spud!

Regarding the vibrato, my suggestion is to set a metronome to a comfortable tempo (80-100bpm), bend a note such as the G at the 12th fret of the 3rd string upward a whole step, and, in the bent position, rock your wrist slowly so that you achieve vibrato timed to each quarter note.

After a while, your muscles will be accustomed to the action and it will occur smoothly. At that point, speed up the metronome slightly and repeat the process. Iterate until the desired effect is achieved. The point is not necessarily to have a clockwork-timed vibrato, but to ensure precise control over the muscles involved.

I'm sure you are already aware, but lots of folks with great vibrato achieve it by rocking the wrist (think of turning a key back and forth in a lock, the wrist does the work and the fingers stay locked in a stationary position and do not wiggle) and by wrapping the thumb over the top of the neck and pivoting the whole hand at the edge of the palm where the first finger knuckle touches the back of the neck/side of the fretboard.

Good luck in your quest, Sir Spud!

 

[Spudmurphy]

Nice one guys and thanks for the tips. I'm never going to be a shredder and have tried to play with feel requiring a good vibrato technique.
As I said I was always happy with my "pulling down" technique using the strength of my fingers to accomplish it. But and obviously people have latched on - pulling down was impossible on the high E and B. I'm glad to say that my vib on the up has improved and some of the tips above will help in my quest for the perfect Kossof vib. I've never been impressed with Claptons vib but hey that guy still plays with a lot of feel - but with only liberal use of his Pinky. My problem now (using the classical finger notation of P I M A) is to develop the use of my P finger where the tip of the finger lies flat on the fretboard - that(my) technique sucks with that - listen to the riff in, for example Funk #49 which uses this technique - I blag it !!

Where I was going wrong in the past was trying to apply the vibrato too quickly on the note - what I mean is that I was trying to apply it on the B in BANG rather than on the N or the G.

Back to that 10 minutes practice regime!!!

 

[parker1963]

Vibrato for me is in the sheer hand strength you develop along the way from practice.You can't have a strong and melodic vibrato without that hand,finger and wrist strength.
For the longest time i thought there was some magic formula to Clapton and SRV style vibrato untill i realized after playing and practicing for about 2 years that it came naturally from my muscles and therein lies the control that all players want.

Park

 

[Roubster]

There is really nothing like a proper practice routine. It's not easy if you dont have a teacher, and a lot of people make mistakes or learn to play with the mistakes that could be avoided. I myself am guilty of this...mainly due to the fact that I dont have much time to play these days...so when I pick up the guitar I just want to PLAY. However a musical pleasant vibrato has been one of the things I really pay attention to, and honestly I developed a nice vibrato by LISTENING. Of course you have to develop strength, but that does not mean anything. I've seen SOOOO many players that play great, but the vibrato is just so unbearable...uneven and sounds like someone falling down the stairs. The important thing really is to be able to know how much you are really bending. So the best exercise would be initially to be able to bend for example a whole tone up from say the high E on the 12th fret and make sure you hit the correct pitch by verifying it by fretting F# on the 14th fret. Satriani talk about this in one of his lessons...I would love to have him as a teacher.

 

[straycat113]

Spud if you are looking for accurecy with your pinkie then you are going to have to incorparate it into use and again I would set up a little practice regimen. A good one is running 1-3-4 index-ring and pinkie starting on the low F first string across all 6 strings then drop down a half fret and pick 4-3-1 and rotate till you hit the 12th fret and work back up. Also do it wit 1-2-4 index-middle and Pinkie and just 1-4 index and pinkie, also trilling with 1-4 which I would advise you to start very slow for 10 seconds take a few seconds rest and continue then in a week try and add 5 seconds to your time and so on. But all these exercises will incorporate muscle memory and you will get that pinkie up to par with your other fingers. You know what things you want to work and improve on, so isolate those things and make up a practice regimen that focuses on things that are giving you problems, as it makes no sense practicing things you can do well. I can just about assure you that you will see good improvement in a months time.

 

[Spudmurphy]

^
That is a good practice tip and certainly one I will use.

However I do use my pinky. and I use it a lot in my vib, I was just inferring that EC hardly uses his - but hey he gets along fine

 

[agt]

... (using the classical finger notation of P I M A) is to develop the use of my P finger where the tip of the finger lies flat on the fretboard...

P = pulgar = thumb in classical. (I = indice = index, M = media = middle, and A = anular = ring.) You mean the pinky, as opposed to the thumb, right?

I practice pull-off trills between the ring and pinky fingers. Sometimes I pick instead of pulling off. It's brutally hard at first, but eventually the pinky/ring finger independence and strength is developed.

Another excellent technique I have used for controlling the pinky is from this article:

Mark Wingfield - Guitar Seminar Lessons and tips - finger independence and control

 

[Spudmurphy]

P = pulgar = thumb in classical. (I = indice = index, M = media = middle, and A = anular = ring.) You mean the pinky, as opposed to the thumb, right?

I practice pull-off trills between the ring and pinky fingers. Sometimes I pick instead of pulling off. It's brutally hard at first, but eventually the pinky/ring finger independence and strength is developed.

Another excellent technique I have used for controlling the pinky is from this article:

Mark Wingfield - Guitar Seminar Lessons and tips - finger independence and control

Ha my bad. There's two things here that are getting a little confusing and I'll try to clear things up.

Yes I meant "I" within PIMA. I'd like to develop my vibrato on this finger when the tip of the finger lies flat on the strings - to give it a "warble" as oppossed to a pitch bend.

I confused matters when I also mentioned my observation that EC hardly uses his pinky when playing.

... that's where it got confusing.

Bending on the up and then appling a vibrato. ....It's a technique that I found very frustrating over the years, previously having a poor technique when using the ring finger or pinky to dig into the sting, raising it a tone or tone and a half and whilst at the top of the bend appling the vibrato.
This has improved over the years and I came on leaps and bounds when I started playing with my balls

I do use my pinky when playing and have always done so - to such an extent (and Spud throws another conundrum into the debate) that I would prefer to hammer on with my pinky rather than slide my ring finger. When I see some guitarist using the "sliding the finger" technique rather than hammering on I have to admit that it looks impressive as you see the hand sliding about - I guess I just use minimum effort rather than look flash. There again I will slide rather than hammer on to ensure correct fingering in the next sequence.

Man we should be all sat together having a master class ha!! It's so difficult to put into words.


Edit

I just need some of you young guns to show me legatto sweep picking/EVH pyrotechnicsand shredding and I'll be a happy ol' git!!

 

[Smellybum]

Good thread spud, I use vibrato alot - mainly as I can't pick fast with any consistancy and it draws out notes in musical bars!

EBMM guitars actually helpded me the BB King blues master video (this was a while ago) shows his vibrato technique which I learned, but it was actually a video less of steve via doing vibrato - (Watch the video for "I Would love to ") - anyway...

He does vibrato in a circular motion on the fret so normal vibrato in a mr Miagi way is "Side/Side" - but whe I watched vai goes in a circle like a clock but all within the fret....

the smaller dots on my axis at the time helped me do it - I'm far from good at it but let me know if you want a diagram or you tube vid -does that make sense????