target market

[John C]

Actualy this is a great thread. It is something that gets talked about in many different ways.

here is the dilema....I dont want ot make crap.

I wanted to make something of quality and something ergonomically sound.

That leaves me in the dust on the flavor of the month club unless someone big uses it for awhile.(Keith Richards, EVH)

If they are good and mad ein America thenthey will cost more.

My marketing on the strings is aggressive and balls to the wall on the guitars it is almost zero.

My main signature artists are virtuosos.

virtuoso, made in usa, limited production= higher price....the kids are usually influenced by more fashonable players and safer guitar choices along with a smaller income base make our guitars a stumbled upon discovery.....

BP,

Good points. As an EBMM fan, my first "choice" for getting the word out is to have someone just play one; I've loved the feel of EBMM necks since I played a Silo back in 1989 or so; I was even more hooked on the necks when I tried an EVH in 1992 and an early Silo Special in 1995. It took me a while to actually pull the trigger on one - maybe because I had an aversion to custom ordering back in those days and I really wanted an s/s/s one, not the s/s/h versions the local dealer was stocking at the time.

However, as a marketing researcher by trade, I can also see that EBMMs often generate an immediate "Yes"/"No" response - i.e. "Yes, I love the neck; I've got to get one" or "No, that neck isn't for me". It's almost an immediate response; like me, you're hooked immediately or you hang it back on the wall and never pick up another one. Of course, that is an issue since the AL neck is different from the Silo Special neck, which is different from the Axis neck, or the Luke neck, or of course the JP neck. Again, getting the word out is key - EBMM does indeed have the "different horses for different courses".

BP, you also mention your price point on the EBMMs. I don't think your price point is outrageous. In fact, it is pretty much in line with G&L and the upper-level Fender lines (the Amercian Deluxe, American Vintage, USA Signatures, and American Hot Rod Vintage). In fact, a Silo Special in just about any finish other than that year's Limited Edition is going to be within $100 of an American Deluxe Strat, which has "comparable" features (locking tuners, upgraded pickups, etc.). You could wind up spending more on a G&L, depending on options. Of course, none of these have that magical EBMM neck, which is why I'm posting here instead of on Guitarsbyleo.com or the Fender Forum.

At 45, I can play whatever I want. As some RSI issues have robbed me of some mobility, I've spent a lot trying to find the "perfect for me" guitar neck. Most of the usual small-production suspects have come and gone; the Silo Special is the one that does it for me when playing a 25 1/2" scale guitar. For that I'm thankful to BP, Dudley and all the EBMM staff for this guitar. I realize that makes me kind of an "outlier" in the guitar market. However, as evidence by the younger posters on this thread the "viral" marketing of just getting the guitars in people's hands works wonders.

 

[Big Poppa]

viral is the way of choice for us. We are getting younger because of the evolution of the guitarist that started 5 years ago or so...they started with a big box piece of crap and then got a strat or lp pack and now they are ready for a quality guitar

it also is important to note that it is a numbers game and the kids that start drop off the face of the playing earth and the diehards stay in ..they also started with Blink 182 and then dug into classic rock and usually end up into the current virtuosos for enjoument and challenge...thats when we come in

 

[NorM]

I really like this thread

The clinics are just amazing and that's where I got hooked. With the busy schedules of the artists I am always amazed and thankful they can do them at all. I like the way John C said that deciding if the guitar was right was an immediate choice but for me it didn't work out that way. It took me about 4 hours.

I often ponder the production line at SLO and I just figure there is an ever present battle of cutting costs and keeping the quality up that is beyond my comprehension. Slow C&C vs hand sanding.

The partnership between EBMM and GC is amazing and having the GC CEO (Marty) here as well as at the parties was a HUGE honor. (Talk about busy artist's schedules.)

So, how to get people interested in virtuosoes, as opposed to something else. I know I started appreciating technical ability in music from Jr. High School Band. So if music appreciation isn't taught in the family then it's left to the school system to teach music.

In AZ money for music and art education is determined by Tax Deferred credit. So I can donate up to $200 to a school's music program and get the money back from my State taxes. It's the only way that I can tell AZ how to use my tax dollars. (Also my employer has a donation matching program.) This means that schools with parents who can afford a $200 loan get better music education.

A co-worker of mine brought this to my attention and helped me pick out a school that really could use the help. If your state has a program like this please research it and get your donation in before the end of the year. (I think this should be a new thread)

 

[candid_x]

I constantly get s*** on for the fact that I'm 15 and own a Mesa Triaxis, 2:90 rackmount rig, effects, foot controller, and marshall 4x12 cab. People think I'm a spoiled ass who didn't buy it. Worked full time job for it. People think its apparently wrong for younger players to desire quality. I think its just who you listen to. Been playing for 2 years and stumbled upon Petrucci, Vai, Satriani, Eric Johnson, and people like them led to a development of a good ear for tone, and fingers that can tell quality from crap, I guess...just my $.02

If I may say, and a good $.02 it is.

As target demos go, Music Man seems to have a nice and wide assortment of primary target audiences. There's classics like the Silo, in-between or cross overs like the Axis, Luke, AL and Morse, and lots of young blood for the JP.

I think what plays a larger part than demographic is psychographic, where MM guitars are concerned. Not so much about age as mindset, though of course one can influence the other. For example, there's the main stream, and then there's the alternatives. I think MM fits the alternative model. So, it's likely that MM fans might be more of the "the masses are the asses" mindset.

Basses I think is another story, because it seems MM basses are widely known and are used at a staple.

All this is just hobbiest speculation on my part, but it's how I perceive it. And it's fun to think about.

 

[Charles]

That's another interesting point for me. MM basses are huge names, so why not the MM guitars?

 

[marduke]

The only reason I know about EB is because of my fanaticism of Dream Theater and John Petrucci. Otherwise I wouldn't know about them. 24 years old here.

same here (same age too), but ive only been into DT for about 9 months.. as soon as i saw clips of JP playing his Mystic Dream JP6 i had to find out what guitar it was, id never seen anything like it! (never heard of EBMM at that stage not even strings) afew months later i had ordered one, then saw one on ebay for cheap so i bit the bullet and bought it, never having played an EBMM guitar (nowhere stocks them here in Aus, or atleast no-one near me besides Colin) i was kind of worried having put down that much cash for a guitar ive never played, but then the guitar came in and put all my worries to rest, it was and still is perfect, it fits me like a glove, the neck is amazingly comfortable and easy to play on, the width of the fretboard is just right, and that scoop.... wow. and the finish is just astonishing, better than any high price guitars ive seen here in Aus (from top of the line PRS to top of the line LesPauls) and my JP6 is over 6 years old!! but the thing that really amazed me was the tremelo, i can dive bomb without a worry of it going out of tune! ive only seen that stability in a FR trem. oh and the stunning Birdseye maple neck is a nice addition too oh another thing (i could go for days about what i love on this guitar!) the weight! i picked it up and couldnt beleive how light it was, even my strat and SG are quite a bit heavier..

I have decided to sell off my non-EBMM guitars, as much as i dont want to (good memories especially with the LP) i just cant go back to playing them.. they dont 'feel' right anymore, almost un-natural. im an EBMM man all the way now

Thankyou BP and the rest of the EBMM crew for keeping such a high standard with your products, it really shows how much you value your work and your customers.

 

[Jodizzle]

I'm 14.
It's hard to share a point of view when you work for the company ... and have people belive you
I will take the car approach ...
I've spent too many years buying and selling and junking cars just because I got a good deal, but the car turned out to be crap. All I know is that quality doesn't really have a price tag. The money I've spent doesn't really seem to be an issue after the purchase of something with great quality. (don't get me wrong, I'm not a loose spender) But after experiencing something that is quality made, something you can tell had special attention payed to it, something that you rarely or never have problems with ... the price and the contenders don't really matter anymore.
The same goes for car or music trends for that matter. We live in a world where people (no matter what age) eat up whatever the media feeds us as if we were stranded in the sahara desert. Things that are all glitsy and in your face today will be digested and pooped out tomorrow. This is where we need to decide to be responsible for ourselves. Seek out what you are looking for .. don't settle until you are alone with the product and you find superior satisfaction. (haha, I'm sounding a little loony bun) You guys know what I mean ..
I'm satisfied with my Sterling .. no matter if I work here or not

 

[Big Poppa]

I didnt know you liked me that much..

 

[Jodizzle]

Ssshhh, don't tell

 

[silverburst]

I must say that I only got into EBMM basses a few years ago, after playing for more than 20 years. I was always aware of Stingrays, but didn't really connect that they were made by the Ernie Ball company. I figured they were alot like P-Basses, because they kind of looked like one.

Then I saw a band playing at a local fire department-sponsored fundraiser, and the bass player was using a Stingray, and it sounded killer. Later that week I was looking on eBay for the DVD of "The Music Man", and saw a bass for a decent price and bid on it. I was not the least bit disappointed. There was no looking back after that.

They are great products for a reasonable cost, and still made in California. How could you go wrong?

 

[Petersonic]

the only people who know about music man are either middle aged or super rediculous shredders.

Well, I'm 22 and I despise super ridiculous shredders (as in Yngwie, Greg Howe, Tony McAlpine, etc) to the point of sounding like Noel Gallagher when referring to them. Not that I'm a fan of his or anything, but getting annoying shredders annoyed is a lot of fun, you people should try it sometimes... Not all shredders are ridiculousm though; some of them are surprisingly good.
But back to the topic, the average MusicMan buyer is a guy who doesn't a mass-produced guitar, but doesn't want to spend a gazillion bucks on a guitar made by smaller companies, right? That's how I found out about MM. I looked into all the models I could afford and the Axis sounded like the best deal, so I bought it. Also, I knew EVH, Keith Richards and Brad Paisley all played/had MM guitars at some point. As they're three of the guitarists I take seriously, that helped me be certain about my purchase.

 

[whitestrat]

i was just reading a post and somebody talked about how somebody didnt know ernie ball made anything other than strings. not too long ago that was me. i stumbled upon the quality of ernie ball by accident. ive seen them in stores but were always overshadowed by other guitars in my eyes. i was going to buy a prs but before i dropped that much cash i wanted to see if sonically they were better than other random guitars at the store. along the comparison i was lucky enough to pick up a jp6. anyways, it seems to me that the only people who know about music man are either middle aged or super rediculous shredders. being 22 and sucking at guitar i feel out of place.

Lets put it this way... EBMM guitars are like Lotus Exiges... They're overshadowed usually by the more common Ferraris, but for those who really know what they're after, the Exige is the only PURE balls to the wall driver's car out there.

I prefer it that way...

 

[fatoni]

Lets put it this way... EBMM guitars are like Lotus Exiges... They're overshadowed usually by the more common Ferraris, but for those who really know what they're after, the Exige is the only PURE balls to the wall driver's car out there.

I prefer it that way...

im not a fan of the exigemainly because it doesnt perform much better than the elise and at 6'2'' i dont fit in either or them and being 22 i cant afford either of them.

 

[roburado]

Back in the day, when EVH was still with EBMM, I wanted that guitar so badly, but I just couldn't afford it. Now, I can afford EBMM stuff. It was JP that got me to look at EBMM again. So, naturally, my first EBMM was a JP6. My latest is a BFR JP6. Along the way, I got more into Luke, Morse. Getting into AL. The biggest thing for me with EBMM is the great tone, playability, and quality. Am I the target market? Maybe. I've played the others. I've searched for something I like better. After I got my hands on my JP6, I realized that I'd really found what I had been looking for in the JP6 and, later, other EBMMs.

 

[paranoid70]

I have been a big Steve Morse fan for many years. So, I always knew about MM guitars from him. I have also used EB Super Slinkys since I started playing in the 80s.

I think the biggest problem for me was that I hardly ever see most EBMM guitars at Guitar Centers, etc. The EVH/Axis always seemed to be around, but I was more of a fan of the strat-style body. It wasn't until a few years ago that I stumbled upon a Luke and really liked it. Both Silos I purchased over the internet without playing them.

I think the guitars can sell themselves if they were more of them available at the stores. I know about carrying inventory is expensive, and hell, what do I know about running a business? But I would definitely say that when I bought an Ibanez in 2000 I would have purchased a Silohouette instead if there was one available to try out.

 

[rocksalt]

Actualy this is a great thread. It is something that gets talked about in many different ways.

here is the dilema....I dont want ot make crap.

I wanted to make something of quality and something ergonomically sound.

That leaves me in the dust on the flavor of the month club unless someone big uses it for awhile.(Keith Richards, EVH)

If they are good and mad ein America thenthey will cost more.

My marketing on the strings is aggressive and balls to the wall on the guitars it is almost zero.

My main signature artists are virtuosos.

virtuoso, made in usa, limited production= higher price....the kids are usually influenced by more fashonable players and safer guitar choices along with a smaller income base make our guitars a stumbled upon discovery.....

+1 BP!

I must say the current marketing strategy works just fine (My own .02). For instance, my first EBMM (the Axis) is on order now solely because I wander onto boards such as this one, then get the notion to go play one, then the gee-tar sells itself.

On the other hand, now that I've got one coming I'm thinking "great, now I'm set" UNTIL I see the "Dark Eternal Night" studio video and now I'm like a kid again. Petrucci crunching those riffs on the 7 string get's me all a-GASSIN!

 

[DavidOfOz]

The cost of EBMMs has prevented me from getting one prior to now. But really, EBMMs are no more expensive than the other high-end guitars I’ve been looking at over the years (PRS, Ibanez JEM, top-o-the-line US-made Strats). Three kids, a mortgage and a single income makes it hard to buy anything of value, let alone guitars. It was when I was young and living at home that I bought most of my other guitars. Though I might envy kids having great guitars like EBMMs...more power to them...better to start on a great instrument than a dud. (I’m doing my best to convert my daughter’s band-mates and friends from the Strats and LP copies they currently use to EBMMs! Their parents will hate me for it! )

Access to EBMMs has been a bigger issue for me. There are no shops in the South Eastern suburbs of Melbourne that seem to stock them. The nearest stockist is 45 – 60 minute drive, which would be worth the drive if they consistently carried a good range EBMMs, but they don’t. Plus this shop has a reputation for employing staff that are not exactly “on the ball” (in more ways than one). Purchasing an EBMM is not a problem, thanks to Australia’s favourite EBMM dealer, Colin. But finding EBMMs locally to try out can be a real challenge.

But having said that, it was the reputation of EBMM guitars that won me over and prompted me to purchase a Luke without even trying it. I have no regrets, and the Luke has actually exceeded my expectations. I think “reputation” and “word-of-mouth” will serve EB well.

PS As for young players not knowing about EBMMs, try this: Although I’ve been aware of MusicMan (and particularly the Luke model) for many years, it was actually a 15 year-old kid that got me thinking seriously about getting one! This kid knows his gear and is desperate for an AL, thanks in part to his teacher’s passion (obsession?) for ALs. Again, reputation doing its thing.

my 2 cents.

 

[Astrofreq]

virtuoso, made in usa, limited production= higher price....the kids are usually influenced by more fashonable players and safer guitar choices along with a smaller income base make our guitars a stumbled upon discovery.....

I love this thread too Poppa. It's very interesting to me for some reason. Probably because of some of the differences in music from when I started playing guitar and now. When I was 16 or so, the fashionable players WERE the virtuosos, now I would bet that none of my students have heard of SM, JP, etc. It's just a different world now for guitar...I guess, or at least for young players.

Here's a story. I ran into a middle aged guy (probably my age 36) at Sam Ash and we were talking guitars. He was bluesy, sort of jazz based. A great player. He asked what I played and I said MM. He then asked something to the effect of "Do you practice a ton?". I didn't really get what he was getting at. He rephrased it more like "are you a shredder, because all their endorsers are shredders, aren't they?", but not in those words (he didn't use the word shredder, but you get the idea). I thought that that was interesting that he asked that because to him EB=shredder guitar.

Obviously, he is just one guy, but I can see how someone might think that, even if it's incorrect. BP, wasn't this sort of something you were trying to branch out through Benji, you know... reach out to a group of players that listen to popular music? To me, that seems like such a smart move.

I'm interested in people thoughts on this. Sorry if I'm rambling.

 

[whitestrat]

Here's a story. I ran into a middle aged guy (probably my age 36) at Sam Ash and we were talking guitars. He was bluesy, sort of jazz based. A great player. He asked what I played and I said MM. He then asked something to the effect of "Do you practice a ton?". I didn't really get what he was getting at. He rephrased it more like "are you a shredder, because all their endorsers are shredders, aren't they?", but not in those words (he didn't use the word shredder, but you get the idea). I thought that that was interesting that he asked that because to him EB=shredder guitar.

I think this guy has never laid his hands on one ya?

I'm curious about the Benji guitar too... What was the move initiative behind that? It's like Fender and the Tom Delonge strat. Look where that went?

 

[Astrofreq]

I think this guy has never laid his hands on one ya?

Exactly my point. Without ever playing one, his perception was shaped by the endorsers. Heavy duty. I guess that goes for alot of things in life. I never felt like a jock, so I didn't feel comfortable eating Wheaties.