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radiotrib

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Although I do not expect you to have any interest in my opinions or advice, I will offer them anyway.

I have been running public bulletin boards and mailing lists for many years and I am currently (amongst other things) the administrator of the Astronomical Sciences forum at the European Space Agency. As such, I am responsible for the conduct of around 30 moderators located in universities and scientific organisations around the world. I also run 3 large portal sites, 2 of which are public, and as webmaster I am responsible for all their content.

Although there are no written down, real life, rules on how a moderator should act, there are still conventions which have come about as a result of experience, and have become common practice. Allow me to share a couple of them ...

Moderators never summarily delete members threads except where they contain obscene, illegal, seditious or threatening material, in which case they should ban the member as well.

A more appropriate way to handle a "locally unaceptable" thread would be to PM the originator, explain the nature of problem, and ask them to remove or alter the thread themselves. In 99.99% of all non-bannable cases I have encountered, threads were started in ignorance of local rules or conditions, and the originators have been perfectly willing to remove or modify them once notified of the problem. Reference, in the form of a link to the relevant terms and conditions of use for the forum is normally provided, in order to identify what is considered "locally unacceptable". It might be useful to make sure the T&C are accessible via a link on the main template perhaps.

An open thread (as opposed to a restricted one, to which only moderators and admins can contribute) is open for discusssion. This means that even where a moderator originates an open thread him/herself, he/she should be obliged to permit it to remain open at least long enough for the majority of members to take part in the discussion.

The recent " Focus, Forumites, Focus!" thread was not only open for less than 24 hours (which automatically excluded part of the world from participating), but it was closed at 4:49 am WET, which effectively excluded most of the Middle East, Africa, and Russia, and the whole of Europe. This, whether by intention or design, also excluded me (being the person whose thread was deleted) from either providing a response, or voluntarily repairing my mistake.

Making it sticky only compounds the issue.

Moderators who feel they must issue public reminders or statements, would normally make them in a restricted or closed thread. That way the thread wouldn't get filled with unnecessary smartassery and off topic trivia. If, on the other hand, moderators decide to make an existing thread sticky because it has important content, they might reasonably be expected to close it and clean it up first.

I would hope that you will take the above comments on board, since they do come from someone with considerable experience in the subject. On the other hand, if you feel that don't want to take the time to apply sensitivity and consideration to your moderation, why not try to find someone else who will.

I don't suppose the consequent loss of one member, who doesn't even own an EB product, will be of any concern to either yourselves or your sponsors, but in all the companies I have worked for over the years, heavy-handedness and lack of consideration for your clients and potential clients, have never made for either good forum moderators or good salesmen.

2c

Ad the Chairman of one company I worked for was known to say to his sales team - "You may sell a thousand a month boys - but you still sell them one at a time".
 

roballanson

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Blimey dude......for moderation there are a lot of words there.

I knwo nothing about this subject - it was enlightening to know that we Europeans have a Space agency (what are they up to?) - I think the moderators run this site fairly well and stepping in is a necessary evil but needs to be done.

Oh and I miss out on discussion too sometimes but thats life.

just my two pence worth. My feeling is to just relax, chill and enjoy this place is not meant to be antagonistic - we all have work for that....:D
 

Oldtoe

Intestinal Poltergeist
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Location
Paris, TX
landcrab.jpg
 
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Psycho Ward

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Elk Creek, VA and Murrells Inlet, SC
As with any so called “art” there will be some that appreciate it and some that don’t. I personally appreciate Jack's approach and find it fair, humorous and calm. My God he’s dealing with musicians; you know how we can be…:D
 

BigBallz

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Moderation

Well, I for one will miss radiotrib. Moderation....interesting word...but as with anything, it can be overdone or slanted towards an opinion not shared by others.
I find it disheartning at times, that I, as an Ernie Ball customer and supporter, have to see a very funny and talented user leave this site because of his unhappiness with the overmoderation here. I have had my hand "slapped" a few times here also. A p.m. would of been prefered, however the chosen path was to chastize me on the forum, as in the latest, "stop being a smartass" or "stop the sexual inuendos". But this is Ernie Ball's forum, and I must comply by their rules or leave it. That's my choice still, (I hope). It is curious that I am singled out, for just trying to have a bit of fun, but some other members are throwing around the word, "Whore", which , by the way, is very offensive to me, and their considered to be funny. Double standard? Maybe, but I will do my best not to offend, use other brand names, talk about other basses or strings or anything else that upsets the owners of this site. I like posting here, and I have made a few friends on this site. Radiotrib has brought up a serious subject and I think we should ALL take a long deep breath....and move on.
 
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TSanders

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Location
Columbus, GA
My 2 cents is this. Of all the forums I particapte in, this is one where overmoderated doesnt come to mind. The mods here have been fair, always, IMO.
 

bovinehost

Administrator
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Jan 16, 2003
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Kevin, I am always interested in opinions and advice. I am, hopefully, smart enough to know how to shut up and try to learn from those who have more experience in any given field.

You may have missed some things that happened before you signed up. In fact, I know you did. Your string thread had very little to do with my call to focus; it was just one thread in a long history of threads that have been primarily about EBMM's competition. And, in any case, I didn't delete your thread. That was done by someone at the company, and I can't say whether or not there was conversation about it before it was deleted....but the thread was entirely about someone else's (not EB) strings, and I think we can agree that there are better places to explore that subject - yes?

PM the originator, explain the nature of problem, and ask them to remove or alter the thread themselves

Some people don't check in every day. The other consideration is that the 'rules', such as they are, concerning non-EBMM threads have been clearly expressed a number of times (like about, say, a million). I'd have to look to be sure, but I think the rule is also in the FAQ.

I didn't set out to 'exclude' you from the discussion and am perfectly willing to continue THIS discussion, in fact. You and I have had our share of perfectly civilized discussions and email exchanges and as I said elsewhere, this reminder was not directed at any one person, especially not you.

On the other hand, if you feel that don't want to take the time to apply sensitivity and consideration to your moderation, why not try to find someone else who will.

I have volunteered more than once to give up this high-paying job. My attempt to resign was refused. I think this means that BP is happy with the way I run things here, inasmuch as I actually run things to any extent. I try to be sensitive and I try to be considerate and I try to let people say what they want to say - within reason. If you disagree, then all I can say is that I'm sorry but they won't let me quit.

I don't want to lose even one member of the board. Everyone brings something unique to the table and I've always considered you a valuable contributor. If, however, you think I've been inconsiderate or heavy-handed and can't see your way clear to remain, then I will wish you the best of luck.
 

bovinehost

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One other thing, not directed at anyone in particular:

There is no ownership requirement, for God's sake. Nor do you have to own ONLY EBMM basses or use EB strings.

This is a discussion board, hopefully used to gain and share information about EB products, not some private club where only certified owners can relax and smoke cigars and whatnot.

You think BP has only EBMM basses and guitars? And I've been to Jon's house...the man has secrets. Same here, not everything at Camp Bovine is EBMM. So let's not pretend that ownership or exclusivity is any sort of prerequisite.

Jack
 

roballanson

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Mar 17, 2005
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Dude in all seriousness is it worth chucking all this in over a disagreement. No one really wants to see that - we are like the United Nations of Bass here, sure we dont all get on a once but it near as damn it works.

Besides you might wanna be here when Psycho Ward's lefty basses turn up (no offence psycho:D )
 

Jazzbassman23

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Aug 29, 2003
Messages
538
Location
Maryland
Well said, Jack. I think what happened here stems from two issues. First, we're guys (for the most part). We don't read manuals (FAQ's); we just jump right in. We post without learning the idiosyncracies of a particular forum. Second, I feel pretty comfortable here (as I know others do) and trust the collective knowledge of the group so much that when I have a question, my tendency is to just ask it. 99% of the time I catch myself before I track mud into BP's house (nice metaphor, huh?), but there are times when I want to know a forumite's opinion about a non EBMM product. Most of us have only the best intentions when partying at BP's; we just need to remember our host has a few expectations that are pretty damned reasonable.

Finally, which is better an SR5 or an H Bongo 5?

Dave
 

tkarter

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Jazzbassman23 said:
Finally, which is better an SR5 or an H Bongo 5?

Dave


Neither is better. It is best to play which ever one you have in your hands at the time and know it will get the job done most wonderfully.

IMHO

tk
 

sandman@midlife

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Oct 10, 2005
Messages
396
Location
Gainesville, Fl
[Most of us have only the best intentions when partying at BP's; we just need to remember our host has a few expectations that are pretty damned reasonable.

Finally, which is better an SR5 or an H Bongo 5?

Dave[/QUOTE]
+1. We get a long leash on this forum.

H Bongo 5

Peace
 

Oldtoe

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Sep 10, 2004
Messages
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You suck, Oldtoe! You're a jerk! A complete kneebiter!

(had to yell at someone)
 

koogie2k

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Dec 28, 2002
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Location
Moyock, NC
Wow....what a read. I think that we ALL need to realize is simply this:

1. This forum is provided to us at the expense of Big Poppa and EBMM, so we should ALL respect his wishes when using the wonderful priviledge.

2. This forum has moderators. I have been PM'd about some things as to why I should edit/delete a response. Nothing major and I did not have a hissy fit about it.....not that I am saying anyone here is throwing a fit.

3. Again, we have moderators here who are to keep the forum flowing, keep the peace and so on. It also means they are enacting upon the wishes of Big Poppa and EBMM. I personally have met some of the moderators and they are really cool peeps.

4. Some content needs to be regulated. Some comments need to stop as they can and will be offensive. I have been guilty myself sometimes......for that I apologize to any who I may have offended.

5. I hope and encourage people to stay even when they are out of line and are on the line of being "banned".....I won't dig up old dirt, but I try to keep people here and help out the best that I can. Most here do that.

6. Finally, this is the most important part. Don't bash personal friends of Big Poppa or their companies. It is disrespectful to Big Poppa and to those that may not be here to defend themselves. I am going out on a limb here, but I am almost 100% sure Big Poppa has apologized for some of the remarks on here directed at his friends. That is a shame and he should NEVER be put into that position. Have fun like we normally do.

RANT OVER. :cool:
 

Big Poppa

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Coachella & SLO, California
Radiotrib

Sorry you are dissapointed. My Dad also told me that you can't please everyone, thats why there are more than one maker of strings.

Here is where the rub starts. Most people feel so comfortable here that they assume that this is a commune. There is a sense of entitlement that confuses me. This is not a government space agency public forum...It's a commercial forum paid for by a manufacturer as a source of community and information relating to said companies products.

I have taken your suggestions and critisisms regarding how much better and smarter you are with web sites and now Im getting the same on moderation. You guys all need to know that I've got Jacks back. I appreciate and fully approve of his moderating and he can't quit.

I almost left myself last month. Many regulars also were coaxed back by Jack.

We have to remind people of things. The sexual innuendo thing curtailed Beth's level of comfort here especially when it was slammed at her. Have you seen her here lately? If you guys dont want to be called out publicaly regarding content and conduct, then please use the PM funtion when you are instructing Jack on content.

Now lets just take a few deep breaths and relax and enjoy the ride.
 
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