The Bass Industry

[Big Poppa]

Ceramic, alnico, neodymium, graphite, kevlar teflon....just to get started.

Just because you are happy doesnt mean that there isnt room for improvement and innovation.....Maybe if more people were accepting and supportive of change we would be beyond magnetic pickups...

If it doent move forward only the players that are happy with status quo win....
if change happens everyone wins

 

[Caca de Kick]

Oh, I do love to see new body shapes. I've bought and sold my share of botique-y basses, and will no doubt continue to do so in the future.

-Mike

 

[bovinehost]

I'm thankful for people like Sterling and the crew at EBMM for trying to push us beyond the "P versus J" debate. The Bongo - hard to believe it now - made such a big splash in the bass community! It sometimes pissed me off but it always kept me entertained. I hope something radical comes along next year so I can be Lord Something Else.

And to Marco and the guys at Markbass - what's not to enjoy about super light gear that sounds great? Now THERE is an innovation we can all get behind.

It's been a really fun time to be around the bass community.

Jack

 

[jongitarz]

Lord Something.....I like that

 

[bobalu]

and a car is a car and a television is a teleevision lets stop all thoughts of forward motion....

I don't read Chris C's post that way. To me, "forward motion" and change for the sake of change are two very different things.

 

[Big Poppa]

There are a few threads that dont seem to grasp that if they are happy with wahts already out there doesnt mean that we cant apply new materials, electronics and finishes for those who want to push the envelope. To say the bass is done is like the computer in 1965 that said everysong will be written by 1968...true story

 

[PzoLover]

Music & The Innovation Market

... Just about all of the forward progress has come on the backs of the small and determined makers and their failure rate is so big..... The market kills the innovators.

... But you know, Mr. General Q. Public generally isn't going to hear or know the difference between a washtub bass and a bass clarinet. Many of them don't even know that a bass exists--it's just a guitar. ...

... for many composers, remixers, and songwriters, the synth is a great step forward. They don't have to deal with (or pay) us cranky musicians. For us bassists, of course, it's not progress or innovation at all--it's a nuisance.

Is it that nowadays the "music industry" is more about money and show business than music ?

Or is it that 'globalism' leans harder and heavier every new day on innovators and creators of high quality electric basses because ultimately there are only so many actual musicians to go around, and after that it's all about liberating money from herds of the lowest common denominator, aka 'consumers' ?

If the motivation for "innovators of musical instruments" is about music (sound, playability), musicians will seek their products, but maybe not in large numbers; we're not the majority of the population; musicianship is not quick and easy to come by, 'bass players' are outnumbered by 'bass consumers', we're not all 'gear whores', and we're not all filthy rich.
- at my local major MM retailer (Canadian GC equivalent) all models of MM basses are outnumbered over 100:1 by racks full of 'price point' and 'image' products; a visit to one of the branch stores in the area looking for more selection (ie any BONGO 5) will get you a referral back to the main city location.

If the motivation of "bass industry competitors" is about 'science', or 'making a buck', market forces other than 'music' come into play - like 'consumerism' for example.
- the current 'manufacturer' of another brand of instrument I play now targets a small niche of consumers via 'innovative' means such as electronic games and specialized entertainment events; owners like me, with a rare, high quality vintage instrument, which was actually very innovative in its day, are no longer of any interest to that brand.

I'm happy enough now that SR5 Piezos make my kitty kat 'Meow'; and I still have hopes of getting another one made and shipped to Canada in less than a year, and of paying less than the family farm for the privilege.



What I'm not so excited about is the fact that I have to listen to 'electronica' crap noises and condom ads when I go to the gym for a workout because 'that's what sells' - new age wizards know they can make more money faster and have quicker gratification by programming computers and acting like rabbits, than by playing real music; but lucky me, at least I can still look out the window while I'm there - no need to watch the 'closed captioned singers' on the muted overhead TV 'music videos' where the tunes play second fiddle to the t!ts.

So much for "innovation".



As far as real music goes - the Del McCoury Band was inspiring in concert last weekend - uncooked vocals, standup bass, mando, banjo, fiddle, guitar - 3 mics, minimal PA, good soundman - one concert hall.

 

[adouglas]

To say the bass is done is like the computer in 1965 that said everysong will be written by 1968...true story

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas J. Watson, founder of IBM

"640k [of RAM] ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates

Guys like that are immensely successful businessmen, but they're not radical visionaries. People like Steve Jobs, Amar Bose, Buckminster Fuller, Frank Lloyd Wright, Burt Rutan...those are the kinds of people who really shake things up because they ignore conventional wisdom and are not afraid to think about problems in an entirely new way. My personal heroes are all people like that. I value different, creative, intelligent points of view very highly.

For that matter, Leo Fender and Les Paul were like that, too. Do you really think that the solidbody electric bass would have been created in the first place if the attitude had been "if it ain't broke don't fix it?"

The thing about "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is that if you never push the envelope, you never find out if you can do it better. Generally speaking, inventions that change the world have something in common: They go directly against the concept of "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

There is a place for both points of view. Tradition and continuity are valuable, but innovation and progress are essential.

 

[roburado]

So many small builders come up with a radical idea and then bet the farm on it. That way lies failure. You have to have a product that appeals to the masses in order to pay the bills.

Thank goodness for Slinkies.

 

[roburado]

Admittedly, I sort of thought the Bongo was weird. Yes, I resisted innovation. I thought the name was weird too. So, I was kind of like, "What's the story with that thing? It looks weird too." I was intrigued, though. I was especially intrigued after finding out that BMW's DesignWorks did some of the initial work on its design. So, now, after trying it out, I think I want a Bongo for my first bass, because it sounds incredible. It really brings the thunder. It feels pretty damn good too. Maybe not as comfy as the Sterling for me, but still, the sound is fantastic! It's the whole thing about being open to change. You may be right about guitarists being less open to change. Look at the thread introducing the JP F-1 to the guitar forum. Just those few cosmetic/shape changes and some people made the thread an unpleasant place to be. Then, boom! Thread closed.

 

[SteveB]

I say if it ain't broke, break the damned thing.

 

[PocketGroove82]

The Bongo was supposed to be a mariage of renewable materials that we would dial in the resonance and feature the new electronics

BP,
I was just wondering what renewable materials were considered, and ultimately dismissed in the making of the bongo?
I really like that concept.

 

[Big Poppa]

this crazy plastic that machine shops use for tooling, corian, compressed wood products the works

 

[PocketGroove82]

thanks boss

 

[Gary Raymond]

I realize this is a Musicman Forum & all, but after reading about this, I wonder if there is anything in the future of the Bass like this:
http://www.gibson.com/DigitalGuitarNew/gibsonDigital.html
Yeah, people slam Gibson for ruining brands they take over, but this seems to me to be on the cutting edge of the future.

 

[Lazybite]

I would tend to disagree with this statement. I dont think you will ever get a computer to sound like the real thing. Its a case of too much technology and not enough individuality. Sure, the computer can do great things, but I dont think you will ever be able to fool anyone with a snythesized bass and ahve them say "wow, that is a killer Xbrand bass"

You can already get the tone of any bass you want from software - you just gotta know how to tweak it..so that is not the problem... the problem is that it is near impossible to replicate the feel of live playing... eg the variations in tone you can create by using your fingers differently etc..

I haven't investigated midi pickups at all - can anyone comment on them? do they have good response/tracking? is there a big future for analogue/digitial pickup combos?

 

[58super]

It's interesting that plastic is considered a sustainable material when its raw material is oil that takes millions of years to make. Corians great stuff. You can make all kinds of things with it from knife handles to countertops.

You can grow a tree in 50 years and to me that's a resource that can be replenished.

The intersting thing about a synthetic is possibility that production will be consistent with every bass having a consistent sound. But then again someone's bright maybe someone else's harsh so maybe some inconsistencies are good?

Leo Fender took some new ideas like solid body basses and some old ideas like mass production and combined them to come up with successful innovative products.

 

[MingusBASS]

Leo Fender took some new ideas like solid body basses and some old ideas like mass production and combined them to come up with successful innovative products.

...and that was 60 years ago.

 

[Big Poppa]

It's interesting that plastic is considered a sustainable material when its raw material is oil that takes millions of years to make. Corians great stuff. You can make all kinds of things with it from knife handles to countertops.

You can grow a tree in 50 years and to me that's a resource that can be replenished.

The intersting thing about a synthetic is possibility that production will be consistent with every bass having a consistent sound. But then again someone's bright maybe someone else's harsh so maybe some inconsistencies are good?

Leo Fender took some new ideas like solid body basses and some old ideas like mass production and combined them to come up with successful innovative products.

We all know that plastic comes from oil. Thanks for the refresher. Plastics were considered as a way of trying to control resonance and making a more consistant product.

WE are makng a body from compressed sunflower seeds now...will let you know it may be a bit heaviy so far.

 

[Psycho Ward]

From my many years as a sax guy, make one out of brass. A hollow brass body with some sort of tuneing and damping. Put me down for the first one BP, you know I'm good for it.