The Bongo, the 'Berger and the Hearing Aid

[Golem]

What would possess a partially sane person to play a bright orange Bongo HH5 in a dinner time duo gig in a small bistro? Well, the bartender's gui*tar player had helped me pick it out. I ran into him at a GC clearance sale and, even for a gui*ar player, a brand new Bongo HH5 for 921 inflation ravaged Yankee Greenbacks is a no-brainer. His very words were "OOG! Sound good. You like?" So the orange beastie came home with me.

So, since he usually visits said bartender/bandleader on her sunday dinner time bar shift, I felt obliged to attempt to tame the Bongo for the our dinner-duo-with-diva thing, so he could dig the result of his fine advice. Seems you can take the Bongo outa the Jongo but you can't really take the Jongo outa the Bongo. All seemed tranquil enuf, but there's just something oozing from a Bongo that kant be killed, and even at whispering volume, it drives a hearing aid painfully bonkers.

While it is probably to the Bongo's credit to always be oozing sub-bass that just won't go away, customers do come first. What 2do watt 2dew..... go out to the truck and get the plastic fantastic, the 'berger XL2, and park the Bongo?? :-( And so I did that and it was a complete cure for the Bongoed out hearing aid. Ain't nothing tricky oozing out of a plastic 'berger. BTW, the Bongo and the 'berger both have similar flatwounds and the rig is just a small Ampeg PortaBass [but it sits directly on the hardwood dining room floor].

 

[Psycho Ward]

I say when doubt, turn it up!

 

[Dr. Nick]

...BTW, the Bongo and the 'berger both have similar flatwounds and the rig is just a small Ampeg PortaBass [but it sits directly on the hardwood dining room floor].

Okay, now we're getting into "too damn hard" territory!

What, exactly, was the Bongo doing to Ol' Granny (or Grandpa) Bluehair's hearing aid? And why couldn't she (or he) just turn the old Beltone down a notch or two?

It's an ELECTRIC bass, for gosh sakes! What do they expect, accordian sounds to come out of the thing?

(Sorry. I'm sure they are "fine people" and members in good standing of "The Greatest Generation Ever". There sure are enough of them down here in America's Oilpan.)

 

[Bill]

It always drives me crazy when, at gigs, people keep pestering the band to turn down, turn down, turn down. My thought is that if these people hire a live band, the music is going to be louder than a boombox! They should know this and not think that a live band is going to play at the volume of elevator music.

Most of the time when somebody says, "Could you turn the volume down a little, please?", I turn my amp up a notch.

 

[Psycho Ward]

When they ask me to turn down I tell them, "sorry I can't hear you, I'm playing too loud!!!"

 

[shamus63]

Most of the time when somebody says, "Could you turn the volume down a little, please?", I turn my amp up a notch.

Yeah, I like to f*ck with them a bit...I turn down the gain, but turn up the bottom-end!

 

[adouglas]

It always drives me crazy when, at gigs, people keep pestering the band to turn down, turn down, turn down. My thought is that if these people hire a live band, the music is going to be louder than a boombox! They should know this and not think that a live band is going to play at the volume of elevator music.

Most of the time when somebody says, "Could you turn the volume down a little, please?", I turn my amp up a notch.

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you here. There's a HUGE difference between the volume most bands play at and "boombox levels" or "elevator music."

IMHO, most bands are WAY too loud. There simply isn't any valid reason to pump out SPL that is clearly in hearing-damage territory. Believe it or not, live music sounds BETTER if you don't have to wear earplugs.

Why are you there? To entertain the audience, or just to make a big noise? If the audience thinks it's too loud, well, maybe it is. I went to see the Dregs a couple of years ago and the house sound guy had the mains cranked up so flippin' loud that I couldn't even tell what song they were playing half the time! What the heck is the point of that? Most of what I remember from that show was trying to deal with the noise. It got in the way of enjoying the music.

My band uses a dB meter during setup, every time. We play at about 95-100 dB with occasional louder peaks, which is PLENTY loud enough. If we start breaking 100 consistently it's time to turn down. Everyone has a great time, and we've never, ever had anyone ask us to turn UP. More importantly, people are gathering around to watch us, not trying desperately to find someplace quieter.

We don't have to wear hearing protection, neither does the audience, nobody has to scream at one another to be heard, and nobody's ears wind up ringing the next morning.

My $0.02: If it's too loud, you're not too old. It's just too loud!

 

[shamus63]

There are different interpretations of "too loud"; some are just rediculous. I personally don't want to have to resort to wearing earplugs because of overbearing volume levels.

I've actually left bands that habitually cranked their Marshalls to 11 and beat the sh!t out of their drums. Everything just washed in the mix, and there was no valid reason for it.

But, on the other side, I've had club owners tell the band to turn down to point where I could damn-near hear what everybody was ordering from the bar.

A band is hired to be heard, within reason, not to be background noise.

IMNSHO.

 

[tkarter]

+1


tk

 

[Golem]

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you here. There's a HUGE difference between the volume most bands play at and "boombox levels" or "elevator music."

IMHO, most bands are WAY too loud. There simply isn't any valid reason to pump out SPL that is clearly in hearing-damage territory. Believe it or not, live music sounds BETTER if you don't have to wear earplugs.

Why are you there? To entertain the audience, or just to make a big noise? If the audience thinks it's too loud, well, maybe it is. I went to see the Dregs a couple of years ago and the house sound guy had the mains cranked up so flippin' loud that I couldn't even tell what song they were playing half the time!

I'm with you. I wear earplugs at other band's gigs more often than not. As for "If it sounds too loud, you're too old", it's not so much a question of too many years, but of too many degrees. I myself have 98.6, and I know 'too loud' when I hear it, or as you sort of put it, when I can't hear it.

As to the customer with the hearing aid, this is a dining room. There's no drum kit. I wasn't loud to begin with, no need [or desire] to be loud. It was just a peculiar problem. Also, the customer isn't an old blue hair, just someone that's been to too many gigs played by other members of this forum. And when I did switch to the Steinberger, I played at the original volume, same as before this customer arrived, and there was no problem.

There's something sneaky coming from the Bongo, something that's not coming from the 'Berger, and so I suspect it's a harmonic effect in the sub-sub-bassment of the sonic dungeon. Whatever the culprit was, it can be delivered thru a small rig, a 250W PortaBass head with one 12" PortaBass cab.

As to the question of why am I there ? Mostly, I'm not even there to entertain. I'm there to support Ms. Diva, who IS there to entertain, and who can do that with just a smile and a song and a lot of cleavage. She says she doesn't have to work her voice as hard if I'm there to fill out the sound. But audiences were well and fully entertained before I ever came along, and it didn't bother them that she felt she was working her voice too hard.

 

[Dr. Nick]

There are different interpretations of "too loud"; some are just rediculous. I personally don't want to have to resort to wearing earplugs because of overbearing volume levels.

I've actually left bands that habitually cranked their Marshalls to 11 and beat the sh!t out of their drums. Everything just washed in the mix, and there was no valid reason for it.

But, on the other side, I've had club owners tell the band to turn down to point where I could damn-near hear what everybody was ordering from the bar.

A band is hired to be heard, within reason, not to be background noise.

IMNSHO.

Agree. adouglas, you also raise a valid point. I will not play with people that crank up to ear damaging volume. If they don't turn down after a polite request, I unplug and leave. (Honestly, this only happened once...) As for playing with ear plugs, well, then maybe you ARE playing too loud!

On the other hand, some people think they should be able to sit down in front of the PA mains and carry on an intimate and polite conversation without having to raise their voices. That is unrealistic.


I remember one time playing this crappy hole in the wall biker bar in Sebastian, Florida. The club owner that hired us (and loved us, BTW) was not in that day, so his worthless POS son is watching the bar. So he keeps coming over and telling us to turn down. No problem. We turn down. And again, and again, and again. Finally, he tells us that he wants us to turn down to the point where he can sit (no lie) THREE FEET from the stage and watch TV! Turns out he's watching a college football game and he wants to hear the play-by-play! At that point we suggest that he just pay us our money and we will call it a day. "No way" he says. "My Dad paid you to play and you're gonna play!" So, at that point we just turned back up to our normal (but not excessive) volume and played one more song.

We didn't have to play another one! We got our money and out the door we went. So about a month later, the owner calls us up and asks "when are you coming back?"

"Not anytime real soon."

 

[tkarter]

I take it as you were being very considerate of the customer with the hearing aide and that is commendable IMHO


tk

 

[adouglas]

There's something sneaky coming from the Bongo, something that's not coming from the 'Berger.

It's the mind control waves.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9490

Where's my tin foil hat?

 

[Mobay45]

I take it as you were being very considerate of the customer with the hearing aide and that is commendable IMHO


tk

+1

If something was causing this person to be in pain because of one instrument and that could easily be changed, there's no reason not to cater to him. But on the other hand, I hope he acknowledged your accomodating him by leaving you a nice gratuity.

 

[shamus63]

We didn't have to play another one! We got our money and out the door we went. So about a month later, the owner calls us up and asks "when are you coming back?"

"Not anytime real soon."

If I was wearing a hat right now, I'd tip it to you (and your band)! Good for you!

Again, I have no problem accomodating the reasonable request for a volume level decrease; *reasonable* being the operable word.

 

[Dr. Nick]

If I was wearing a hat right now, I'd tip it to you (and your band)! Good for you!

Again, I have no problem accomodating the reasonable request for a volume level decrease; *reasonable* being the operable word.

Yeah, Good times...good times....


I agree with you entirely about "reasonable requests"...I'm no metal head looking to decapitate people....to the extent possible, I want everybody to enjoy themselves. It' s just been my experience that, every once and a while, you run into a real *@#&%.
I'm still a little unclear about why the Bongo in particular was bothering this person?
Cannot these beasts be tamed? I can dull down my Sterling to almost sound like an EB-0 for gosh sakes! (It' aint easy or pretty, but it can be done!)

 

[Golem]

Yeah, Good times...good times....


I agree with you entirely about "reasonable requests"...I'm no metal head .........

I'm still a little unclear about why the Bongo in particular was bothering this person?
Cannot these beasts be tamed? I can dull down my Sterling to almost sound like an EB-0 for gosh sakes! (It' aint easy or pretty, but it can be done!)

[I started this thread] and that was the point. I was NOT bi*ching about customers, managers, etc. My point was that the Bongo seems untameable, and the hearing aid was just a measure of that, just some evidence. The point was that the Bongo sonic spectrum always includes something "*SpeciaL*", since the 'Berger could be played at normal volume and EQ settings without freaking out the hearing aid.

Last night [4 nights later] I again brought the Bongo to dinner. I set the Bongo's EQ knobs to the center clicks [flat]. I favored the bridge PU slightly to avoid any boom from the neck PU. I backed out a little bass from my usual settings on the rig [a small head and single 12"], and hit the "shift" button on it, to move the center of the low-mids upwards a bit [I hate all this description, sorry if you feel the same, but...]. With all that de-bass-ing dialed in, the Bongo's voice got a bit midrangey, the higher strings still did not get twangy or guitarish, and underneath this midrangey voice is a quite noticeable deep growl, and underneath the deep growl is an even deeper "micro-quake" sound.

[Verbatim from the original post] "You can take the Bongo outa the Jongo, but you can't take the Jongo outa the Bongo."

A Bongo just ain't yer Pappy's Sterling, my friend. You can tame a Ray or Sterling with your fingers. For a Bongo you need an exorcist. BTW, my Bongo is an HH5 with 5 year old D'Addario chrome flats. Yes, the strings are much older than the bass, and come from an FL, so no old fret dents in the strings. I think that everyone who spends time with a Bongo, even if in the end they choose not to keep it, will agree that it's like nothing else they ever played.

 

[Dr. Nick]

...the Bongo sonic spectrum always includes something "*SpeciaL*", since the 'Berger could be played at normal volume and EQ settings without freaking out the hearing aid...

Wow! Holy Shiites!

Must be those 'mind control rays"!

Thanks for the explanation. Sometimes it just takes me a little longer to catch on

 

[Bill]

The reason I'm so bitter about people griping that the band is too loud is that the bands I play in play Cajun music. And a lot of the time we play in restaurants as opposed to large, open venues where we can crank it up, so the music isn't very loud to begin with. There's a huge difference between Cajun music and mainstream music. Cajun music surely doesn't have to be very loud, certainly not as loud as music that involves one or two electric guitars. So it kinda bums me out when people think we're playing too loud. Whenever I hear other area bands play when I have a night off, the volume is almost always much louder than the volume that we normally use.

I'll admit that there have been plenty of gigs in which I think we've been too loud. When the rhythm guitarist's sound can be heard much louder than the drums and his bass notes clash with my bass notes, that's obviously a problem. Everything seems to run together & no instrument's sound really stands out. I hate those gigs! But most of our gigs are "quiet," relatively speaking.

Another benefit of playing in Cajun bands is that the gigs rarely go past 11 P.M.

 

[tkarter]

We all have a learnng curve. We may be musicians, but we all are not sound men. Sound men aren't even good sound me some if not most of the time.

We do it right, we do it wrong.

Music is best when we all that play together do it right. If we do that the sound man will probably get it right too.

I have heard acoustic gigs that were too loud.

I have tinnitus from too loud.

We all learn and probably too late most of the time. I know that is how I did and still do it.

IMHO sort of


tk