adouglas
Well-known member
Um… did you read the first post? It's a rant about how UNTRUE that statement is…..
- Thread starter madbassplaya
- Start date
Um… did you read the first post? It's a rant about how UNTRUE that statement is…..
drTStingray
Well-known member
Interesting post Microbaroms, and I agree entirely with it.
The whole issue may well surround active/passive recording; producer comfort zones/certainty of getting the sound they want; and possibly level of skills/preparation of the player/band involved.
Playing accurately and without unwanted extraneous noise for a recording is quite a skill IMO.
The whole issue may well surround active/passive recording; producer comfort zones/certainty of getting the sound they want; and possibly level of skills/preparation of the player/band involved.
Playing accurately and without unwanted extraneous noise for a recording is quite a skill IMO.
Holdsg
Well-known member
well said. is that the first use of concomitant in this forum? methinks yes
cyoungnashville
Chief Fanboi-ardee
Microbaroms for prez. Good to see ya agin. Stop reading books.
Microbaroms
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 36
Quote: "did you read the first post? It's a rant about how UNTRUE that statement is….."
Thank you for your question.
Indeed I did read the entire first post.
The original post which included these words.
Quote: "I have never done any type of serious recording."
How someone could be properly qualified to authoritatively determine the falsehood or truth of such statements, when they by their own admission, have no serious or professional experience personally? Is the fundamental point that with the greatest possible respect, you appear to have failed to consider.
I actually admire the original poster, in that he doesn't pretend he has experience in the Recording Arena, an area of work he clearly doesn't, but is quite straight forward and modest enough to admit that, right up front. It's a very refreshing honesty in a world of flakeyness blagging and pretence.
So, with respect, the original poster has put himself in the place of a 'Witness At Court' but is in fact merely Repeating and Disputing what he has heard others say, without the practical experience to do so, according to HIM, and furthermore 'Conjecturing' in regard to what 'He Believes' others do.
Again with respect, you appear to have placed yourself in the position of a 'Judge' who is 'Accepting Disputed Points' at 'Face Value', attributing to a 'Witness' your 'Acceptance' of his 'Opinion' as 'Fact', and 'Hearsay Evidence' as though it were 'Truth'.
We may totally agree with all of his conclusions..
But with that as a foregone conclusion, we are necessarily biased in a way that would also disqualify our comments too, from having the weight they might otherwise, very rightly deserve.
However, I have direct links with a great many Manufacturing Operations, (Rolls Royce being merely one of them) so if I state that my experience with EBMM and other Musical Instrument Manufacturers, lead me to conclude that "EBMM is the Rolls Royce of Musical Instrument Manufacturers", that statement has a certain weight that would definately carry as reliable evidence in a Court of Law, because it is not merely the subjective opinion of a Player (who might be paid to proffer an opinion), but someone with a profoundly deep knowledge of decades of experience regarding what 'Quality' is, and that can recognise such, when he encounters it.
So, rather than pursue the posters line. I preferred to dismiss it altogether.
And take a different tack to expose the reason WHY, people say such things as they do, although there are many more reasons I could have given, should they be needed.
For instance, the fact that there are so many old P Basses sold for tremendously high prices, many undeservedly, because people have been led to believe that such will automatically give them 'The MoJo' Sound of a well Recorded Bass.
They may, or they may not, but exposing the Excessive Profit Motive of miscreant individuals set on happily fleecing any unsuspecting wannabe, seems to me to be a far more incisively penetrating manner in which to win such an argument, than Individual Musicians appearing to proffer, differing subjective opinions.
A Brand New Instrument from the EBMM Range could of course give them every salient element of MoJo Sound they seek, and more besides, at an Affordable Price with a Full Instrument Life and Warrantee to boot.
So, the most interesting thing to me is not the 'What' or 'When' although these facts can sometimes be extremely important.
The overriding question in any matter in order to understand and reveal what is really going on, the Actuators for the Motivations of People, is to ask the question.. WHY?
Furthermore, understanding Why people behave as they do, is the key to being able to relate to them, and help them unravel the messes they often get themselves into, and the reasons they sometimes put barriers up, limit themselves, and fail to achieve the level of 'Performance and Accomplishment in Life' that they are in fact, quite truly, capable of.
When you take a Artist in a Studio, being able to potently unlock these subtle areas of self imposed limitation, and encourage them to powerfully push beyond their personal boundaries and horizons, is I feel at least, a vital ingredient for any successful Record Producer that wants to Create something New, Fresh and Exciting, rather than to merely follow, clone and duplicate, the Accepted Status Quo.
In this respect, I feel we should all be heartily thankful for a personality like Big Poppa.
For let's face it, Musicians Recording Engineers like Cameramen and Lighting Engineers tend to be Ultra Conservative in their equipment preferences and tastes.
But in a world that caters for the Retro at a price, and Manufacturers that have been content to rest on their laurels, and sit on their hands for Decades in the face of unprecedented technological change.
Big Poppa has seen and looked hard at every limitation, carefully examined, researched and tested the boundaries. Then pushed beyond the horizon, developing and creating boldly exciting new Products that retain all the very finest features of the past you could want; but innovatively providing purposeful and enterprising new tools that are reliable, which can create the Old Sounds of Yesteryear, the New Sound of Today, and will squarely meet the Creative demands of the Recording Studio of Tomorrow, better than any available alternative.
Who else in the world of Plucked Instruments has this type of Vision?
Let's move on.
Thinking about Craig in Nashville and so on.
Where Recording is concerned, he is based in a very important location.
So I would now like to share some thoughts regarding Recording, that I trust will prove to be extremely helpful to anyone unfamiliar in that field.
Producer Joe Chiccarelli mentioned just after he Recorded Vocals Piano and Strings for 'Songs from the West Coast' for Sir Elton John, CBE.
Songs From The West Coast
That all his life he had avoided like the plague, being known for a 'Sound', that he knew it would effectively mean the end of his Recording Career.
What he meant by that, is in the Recording World certain people fly to the top and are in great demand, because they can Produce a certain type of 'Sound'.
That continues as long as that 'Sound' is in Vogue. But like The Clothing World, Music follows Fashions that are more often than not, short lived, fickle and subject to the same vagrancies.
Therefore, being flexibly able to Produce a wide variety of 'Sounds', rather than being extremely famous for being 'The Man' for one, was to Joe a far better approach to the Professional Recording World, in terms of Career Longevity and Staying Relevant.
Now there is a direct analogy that we can apply here, between the Precision Bass and the EBMM Basses. No one says that a Fender Precision Bass does not do what it does really well.
It is an Instrument I have a great love and regard for and indeed own several, but the point is in a Recording Studio, being able to do that effectively and indeed a lot more besides according to whatever might be required by a Producer on any given individual Track.
What we are thinking about is really for Professional Session Musicians, the ability to be Versatile and Flexible, to be able to quickly respond and deliver according to whatever a situation requires is of Paramount Importance.
If you have 'One Great Sound' but it doesn't happen to be the particular 'Sound' that is needed, and you don't have the ability and equipment to quickly adapt to the needed requirements of the situation, what real use are you there?
When I was young, doing Recording Session Work, I attracted the attention of Producers, in all probability, NOT because I was the Finest Musician they had ever heard, (honesty lamentably compels me to admit), but because I Delivered, Solidly and Reliably 'Whatever' they asked me to do.
Sometimes, that meant being suddenly thrust, into a quite difficult situation, far, far outside my normal zone of comfort. So being recognised as handling very well, situations that required Great Flexibility and Versatility in a Recording Studio; This fact alone made me a wanted asset, someone very handy to have, in a Volatile Creative Situation.
To my mind, the EBMM Range of Basses is of the self same ilk.
I recognise the same attributes but now designed and built into a Musical Instrument.
Therefore EBMM Basses are a great asset to have in a Recording situation, some even have Passive Active Switches, so even that old chestnut is not a limiting problem either.
I often read, especially on the W.W.W. of people using Recording Equipment and writing that a ***** PreAmplifier is especially good for Bass, or it might be something else that they add a particular 'Colour of Sound' to, that is felt to enhance the Recording.
I don't wish to specifically criticize or even imply such to anyone that takes this tack, but rather more, fully encourage those new to this field, to deeply think and ruminate about the issues surrounding Recording, what is really involved here, and how they might best spend their money most effectively.
Often, Recording Engineers and Producers can be the most prolific exponents of this "Use ***** PreAmp for Recording XXX Source" idea, usually because they have had luck with this combination, maybe even a Hit, and so particular favorite combinations of Sound Source, Mic, Outboard PreAmp, DI Box, Equaliser, Compressor and even Recording Console become De Rigueur.
As these preferences and successes become behavioral patterns, becoming practiced and established, woven into the warp and woof of the fabric of their Professional Recording Experience, these can form a kind of 'Aurora' a force field of Confidence. In a way, this can be a defining factor of who they are and what they are about.
This can great a great strength.
But it can also be a simultaneous weakness.
Because delineating who we are, also delineates what we are not.
It may be a little Philosophical, but I'm wondering how many of you truly realise?
That its often the case in Life that the point of our Greatest Strength, is also the point of our Greatest Weakness.
These two factors, are often symbiotically arranged like two halves of a coin, deep within our psyches and have both the power to encourage and propel us forward to success and also the power to limit and deny us our innermost aims and goals in Life.
Thus, it is often the case that we ourselves can be the limiting factor in failing to achieve the level of success and recognition our Ability and Talent truly deserves. As elements deep within our makeup, subconsciously conspire to limit and frustrate the things we consciously might desire or seek most of all, without our even realising it.
So coming back to PreAmps.
What I want you to take on board is this.
If you use a 'Coloured' PreAmp that is 'Brilliant for **** Source'.
By implication, and in fact often Design limitation, it will naturally be 'Not Brilliant On Other Sources' you might also or later want to use it to Record.
Can you see? The excellent Sound you get on **** Source is but one half of the coin, the Not such a Brilliant Sound on Other Sources, is the other half of the Coin, that I want you to think about.
So what I am getting to.
Is the fact that when someone says.
**** PreAmp is really great for **** Source.
It seems as if they are telling you of a PreAmps Great Strength.
But in actual fact what they are exposing, is the fact that there is an Inherent Weakness in the actual design of that PreAmp.
Because a PreAmp, like all good Audio Equipment, should ideally pass signal without unduly Colouring the Sound, so what goes in is also what you get out.
One of the people based near Craig is the brilliant Audio Designer George Massenburg.
George Massenburg Labs
He invented the Parametric Equalizer (that is most of the knobs) on a great Recording Console.
Another Great Audio Designer is Rupert Neve based in Austin now but originally from the U.K. and largely the inventor of the Recording Console with faders as we know it.
AIR Studios - Studios - Studio1 - Custom Neve History
If you talk with these Giants of the Recording Industry.
It soon becomes clear that whenever they Design a piece of Recording Equipment, what they are looking to do above all else is to preserve the fidelity of the Sound.
What they are seeking is the Holy Grail of Recording, which is actually what they call 'Transparency'. What they mean by that, is their Design faithfully conveys the Sound of the Music, as perfectly as possible, as truly as it can be.
Yes, you will be able to add 'Colour to the Sound' should you want to, but at the most fundamental level, their equipment has been designed to provide a 'What you put in, is precisely what you exactly get out' Professional Audio Solution.
Can you see the point here? It is this.
If you play several Instruments as many people do these days.
Following the logic and line of thought of those I outlined much earlier above.
You would need to buy a separate PreAmp for Bass, another several for Drums, yet another for Guitar, another 'Ideal PreAmp' for Keyboards etc.
This is a very expensive approach to building a Modest Recording Facility of the type that is becoming more and more prevalent with each and every passing day and likely to be utilised by many hereabouts.
However.
The good news is, that if you purchase a very good, superbly 'Designed to be Transparent' PreAmp, you will find that you can utilise that PreAmp on whatever Sound Source you wish to, and all the Hallmark Characteristics and Quality of the Original Source will Faithfully be Conveyed to the Recording.
So however you look at it. Whether you are purely chasing the highest quality sound, or whether you are thinking in financial terms, as to what will be the best Investment for your hard earned money.
I for one, would heartily commend to you, Well Designed 'Transparent' Professional Audio Equipment, over every available alternative.
Now here's the next thing.
Supposing you have really good Transparent Equipment.
The onus for 'The Sound' then falls where it really should be, at the very Source.
The Hands of the Player, their Musical Capability, Their choice of Musical Instrument, its Setup, and Maintenance.
Of course The Amplifier and Speaker is extremely important, as is choice of Mic and DI Box, and all the other parameters we could go on to discuss.
But I would like to finish, by writing something that might be a helpful inexpensive solution to anyone venturing out towards Recording for the first time.
When an Amplifier has more than one Speaker, usually it is the case that one Speaker will sound very slightly louder in a given Cabinet than the others, this is the one that you need to place your Mic in front of, if you are using one.
Moreover, when you Mic closely, in the near field of any Musical Instrument, quite small differences in Mic position, its angle towards the Speaker or Instrument, and how that position relates to the Axis of Sound, can provide very tremendous differences in Sound and Tonality.
You could spend a fantastic amount of money seeking just a slightly better Sound, but truly provide an equal Improvement in Recorded Sound in very many cases, simply by experimenting very thoroughly, and assiduously seeking the very best Position for the Mic, the one that Captures and Delivers for you, the Great Tone you want.
Like PreAmps and many other factors in the Recording Chain, it's been my observation that generally, quite tremendous attention is given on the W.W.W. and elsewhere, to actual choice of Mic etc. This Mic is good for ***** and so on.
Whilst I wouldn't dispute or argue with set minds in regard to such matters, in the Fifties, Sixties and even Seventies the period which is often viewed as 'Golden' in terms of Classic Recordings, the available Mic choices were far more limited, and PreAmps usually all the same, built as they were into the Console.
So how did they achieve such tremendous difference in Sound? Especially as in a Three Hour Session, in the Sixtie,s Musicians were most often typically expected to successfully lay down 4 separate Tracks in that given time, many of which would go on to be Huge Hits in the Charts.
It really came down to the Hands and Experience of the Players, them having their Whole Sound Together, the Inventiveness and Creativity of the Recording Engineers who worked hard precisely as I've described to get the best Sound, and the Quality of the Equipment in the Studio, usually involving a very Simple and Direct, but Superlative Quality Recording Chain.
Often in a Recording Studio.
Less is very much More.
Before you spend a lot of Money on Equipment.
Try these things, Experiment and Develop a mind that is Creatively Seeking the Best Sound Always, utterly regardless of 'what' you happen to be Recorded with at any given moment.
Later in a Recording Studio situation, such time well spent in exploring every available possibility for Improvement in Performance, will provide you with a knowledge that you can directly transfer to your current situation, inform and direct a confusing array of multiple choices, and enable you to converse with and translate in a practical manner, whatever it is that Producers and Engineers, are attempting to Achieve with your assistance.
But it starts in The Hands of The Player, their Instrument and Amp, all these must be as one.
Good Luck to All!
P
Thank you for your question.
Indeed I did read the entire first post.
The original post which included these words.
Quote: "I have never done any type of serious recording."
How someone could be properly qualified to authoritatively determine the falsehood or truth of such statements, when they by their own admission, have no serious or professional experience personally? Is the fundamental point that with the greatest possible respect, you appear to have failed to consider.
I actually admire the original poster, in that he doesn't pretend he has experience in the Recording Arena, an area of work he clearly doesn't, but is quite straight forward and modest enough to admit that, right up front. It's a very refreshing honesty in a world of flakeyness blagging and pretence.
So, with respect, the original poster has put himself in the place of a 'Witness At Court' but is in fact merely Repeating and Disputing what he has heard others say, without the practical experience to do so, according to HIM, and furthermore 'Conjecturing' in regard to what 'He Believes' others do.
Again with respect, you appear to have placed yourself in the position of a 'Judge' who is 'Accepting Disputed Points' at 'Face Value', attributing to a 'Witness' your 'Acceptance' of his 'Opinion' as 'Fact', and 'Hearsay Evidence' as though it were 'Truth'.
We may totally agree with all of his conclusions..
But with that as a foregone conclusion, we are necessarily biased in a way that would also disqualify our comments too, from having the weight they might otherwise, very rightly deserve.
However, I have direct links with a great many Manufacturing Operations, (Rolls Royce being merely one of them) so if I state that my experience with EBMM and other Musical Instrument Manufacturers, lead me to conclude that "EBMM is the Rolls Royce of Musical Instrument Manufacturers", that statement has a certain weight that would definately carry as reliable evidence in a Court of Law, because it is not merely the subjective opinion of a Player (who might be paid to proffer an opinion), but someone with a profoundly deep knowledge of decades of experience regarding what 'Quality' is, and that can recognise such, when he encounters it.
So, rather than pursue the posters line. I preferred to dismiss it altogether.
And take a different tack to expose the reason WHY, people say such things as they do, although there are many more reasons I could have given, should they be needed.
For instance, the fact that there are so many old P Basses sold for tremendously high prices, many undeservedly, because people have been led to believe that such will automatically give them 'The MoJo' Sound of a well Recorded Bass.
They may, or they may not, but exposing the Excessive Profit Motive of miscreant individuals set on happily fleecing any unsuspecting wannabe, seems to me to be a far more incisively penetrating manner in which to win such an argument, than Individual Musicians appearing to proffer, differing subjective opinions.
A Brand New Instrument from the EBMM Range could of course give them every salient element of MoJo Sound they seek, and more besides, at an Affordable Price with a Full Instrument Life and Warrantee to boot.
So, the most interesting thing to me is not the 'What' or 'When' although these facts can sometimes be extremely important.
The overriding question in any matter in order to understand and reveal what is really going on, the Actuators for the Motivations of People, is to ask the question.. WHY?
Furthermore, understanding Why people behave as they do, is the key to being able to relate to them, and help them unravel the messes they often get themselves into, and the reasons they sometimes put barriers up, limit themselves, and fail to achieve the level of 'Performance and Accomplishment in Life' that they are in fact, quite truly, capable of.
When you take a Artist in a Studio, being able to potently unlock these subtle areas of self imposed limitation, and encourage them to powerfully push beyond their personal boundaries and horizons, is I feel at least, a vital ingredient for any successful Record Producer that wants to Create something New, Fresh and Exciting, rather than to merely follow, clone and duplicate, the Accepted Status Quo.
In this respect, I feel we should all be heartily thankful for a personality like Big Poppa.
For let's face it, Musicians Recording Engineers like Cameramen and Lighting Engineers tend to be Ultra Conservative in their equipment preferences and tastes.
But in a world that caters for the Retro at a price, and Manufacturers that have been content to rest on their laurels, and sit on their hands for Decades in the face of unprecedented technological change.
Big Poppa has seen and looked hard at every limitation, carefully examined, researched and tested the boundaries. Then pushed beyond the horizon, developing and creating boldly exciting new Products that retain all the very finest features of the past you could want; but innovatively providing purposeful and enterprising new tools that are reliable, which can create the Old Sounds of Yesteryear, the New Sound of Today, and will squarely meet the Creative demands of the Recording Studio of Tomorrow, better than any available alternative.
Who else in the world of Plucked Instruments has this type of Vision?
Let's move on.
Thinking about Craig in Nashville and so on.
Where Recording is concerned, he is based in a very important location.
So I would now like to share some thoughts regarding Recording, that I trust will prove to be extremely helpful to anyone unfamiliar in that field.
Producer Joe Chiccarelli mentioned just after he Recorded Vocals Piano and Strings for 'Songs from the West Coast' for Sir Elton John, CBE.
Songs From The West Coast
That all his life he had avoided like the plague, being known for a 'Sound', that he knew it would effectively mean the end of his Recording Career.
What he meant by that, is in the Recording World certain people fly to the top and are in great demand, because they can Produce a certain type of 'Sound'.
That continues as long as that 'Sound' is in Vogue. But like The Clothing World, Music follows Fashions that are more often than not, short lived, fickle and subject to the same vagrancies.
Therefore, being flexibly able to Produce a wide variety of 'Sounds', rather than being extremely famous for being 'The Man' for one, was to Joe a far better approach to the Professional Recording World, in terms of Career Longevity and Staying Relevant.
Now there is a direct analogy that we can apply here, between the Precision Bass and the EBMM Basses. No one says that a Fender Precision Bass does not do what it does really well.
It is an Instrument I have a great love and regard for and indeed own several, but the point is in a Recording Studio, being able to do that effectively and indeed a lot more besides according to whatever might be required by a Producer on any given individual Track.
What we are thinking about is really for Professional Session Musicians, the ability to be Versatile and Flexible, to be able to quickly respond and deliver according to whatever a situation requires is of Paramount Importance.
If you have 'One Great Sound' but it doesn't happen to be the particular 'Sound' that is needed, and you don't have the ability and equipment to quickly adapt to the needed requirements of the situation, what real use are you there?
When I was young, doing Recording Session Work, I attracted the attention of Producers, in all probability, NOT because I was the Finest Musician they had ever heard, (honesty lamentably compels me to admit), but because I Delivered, Solidly and Reliably 'Whatever' they asked me to do.
Sometimes, that meant being suddenly thrust, into a quite difficult situation, far, far outside my normal zone of comfort. So being recognised as handling very well, situations that required Great Flexibility and Versatility in a Recording Studio; This fact alone made me a wanted asset, someone very handy to have, in a Volatile Creative Situation.
To my mind, the EBMM Range of Basses is of the self same ilk.
I recognise the same attributes but now designed and built into a Musical Instrument.
Therefore EBMM Basses are a great asset to have in a Recording situation, some even have Passive Active Switches, so even that old chestnut is not a limiting problem either.
I often read, especially on the W.W.W. of people using Recording Equipment and writing that a ***** PreAmplifier is especially good for Bass, or it might be something else that they add a particular 'Colour of Sound' to, that is felt to enhance the Recording.
I don't wish to specifically criticize or even imply such to anyone that takes this tack, but rather more, fully encourage those new to this field, to deeply think and ruminate about the issues surrounding Recording, what is really involved here, and how they might best spend their money most effectively.
Often, Recording Engineers and Producers can be the most prolific exponents of this "Use ***** PreAmp for Recording XXX Source" idea, usually because they have had luck with this combination, maybe even a Hit, and so particular favorite combinations of Sound Source, Mic, Outboard PreAmp, DI Box, Equaliser, Compressor and even Recording Console become De Rigueur.
As these preferences and successes become behavioral patterns, becoming practiced and established, woven into the warp and woof of the fabric of their Professional Recording Experience, these can form a kind of 'Aurora' a force field of Confidence. In a way, this can be a defining factor of who they are and what they are about.
This can great a great strength.
But it can also be a simultaneous weakness.
Because delineating who we are, also delineates what we are not.
It may be a little Philosophical, but I'm wondering how many of you truly realise?
That its often the case in Life that the point of our Greatest Strength, is also the point of our Greatest Weakness.
These two factors, are often symbiotically arranged like two halves of a coin, deep within our psyches and have both the power to encourage and propel us forward to success and also the power to limit and deny us our innermost aims and goals in Life.
Thus, it is often the case that we ourselves can be the limiting factor in failing to achieve the level of success and recognition our Ability and Talent truly deserves. As elements deep within our makeup, subconsciously conspire to limit and frustrate the things we consciously might desire or seek most of all, without our even realising it.
So coming back to PreAmps.
What I want you to take on board is this.
If you use a 'Coloured' PreAmp that is 'Brilliant for **** Source'.
By implication, and in fact often Design limitation, it will naturally be 'Not Brilliant On Other Sources' you might also or later want to use it to Record.
Can you see? The excellent Sound you get on **** Source is but one half of the coin, the Not such a Brilliant Sound on Other Sources, is the other half of the Coin, that I want you to think about.
So what I am getting to.
Is the fact that when someone says.
**** PreAmp is really great for **** Source.
It seems as if they are telling you of a PreAmps Great Strength.
But in actual fact what they are exposing, is the fact that there is an Inherent Weakness in the actual design of that PreAmp.
Because a PreAmp, like all good Audio Equipment, should ideally pass signal without unduly Colouring the Sound, so what goes in is also what you get out.
One of the people based near Craig is the brilliant Audio Designer George Massenburg.
George Massenburg Labs
He invented the Parametric Equalizer (that is most of the knobs) on a great Recording Console.
Another Great Audio Designer is Rupert Neve based in Austin now but originally from the U.K. and largely the inventor of the Recording Console with faders as we know it.
AIR Studios - Studios - Studio1 - Custom Neve History
If you talk with these Giants of the Recording Industry.
It soon becomes clear that whenever they Design a piece of Recording Equipment, what they are looking to do above all else is to preserve the fidelity of the Sound.
What they are seeking is the Holy Grail of Recording, which is actually what they call 'Transparency'. What they mean by that, is their Design faithfully conveys the Sound of the Music, as perfectly as possible, as truly as it can be.
Yes, you will be able to add 'Colour to the Sound' should you want to, but at the most fundamental level, their equipment has been designed to provide a 'What you put in, is precisely what you exactly get out' Professional Audio Solution.
Can you see the point here? It is this.
If you play several Instruments as many people do these days.
Following the logic and line of thought of those I outlined much earlier above.
You would need to buy a separate PreAmp for Bass, another several for Drums, yet another for Guitar, another 'Ideal PreAmp' for Keyboards etc.
This is a very expensive approach to building a Modest Recording Facility of the type that is becoming more and more prevalent with each and every passing day and likely to be utilised by many hereabouts.
However.
The good news is, that if you purchase a very good, superbly 'Designed to be Transparent' PreAmp, you will find that you can utilise that PreAmp on whatever Sound Source you wish to, and all the Hallmark Characteristics and Quality of the Original Source will Faithfully be Conveyed to the Recording.
So however you look at it. Whether you are purely chasing the highest quality sound, or whether you are thinking in financial terms, as to what will be the best Investment for your hard earned money.
I for one, would heartily commend to you, Well Designed 'Transparent' Professional Audio Equipment, over every available alternative.
Now here's the next thing.
Supposing you have really good Transparent Equipment.
The onus for 'The Sound' then falls where it really should be, at the very Source.
The Hands of the Player, their Musical Capability, Their choice of Musical Instrument, its Setup, and Maintenance.
Of course The Amplifier and Speaker is extremely important, as is choice of Mic and DI Box, and all the other parameters we could go on to discuss.
But I would like to finish, by writing something that might be a helpful inexpensive solution to anyone venturing out towards Recording for the first time.
When an Amplifier has more than one Speaker, usually it is the case that one Speaker will sound very slightly louder in a given Cabinet than the others, this is the one that you need to place your Mic in front of, if you are using one.
Moreover, when you Mic closely, in the near field of any Musical Instrument, quite small differences in Mic position, its angle towards the Speaker or Instrument, and how that position relates to the Axis of Sound, can provide very tremendous differences in Sound and Tonality.
You could spend a fantastic amount of money seeking just a slightly better Sound, but truly provide an equal Improvement in Recorded Sound in very many cases, simply by experimenting very thoroughly, and assiduously seeking the very best Position for the Mic, the one that Captures and Delivers for you, the Great Tone you want.
Like PreAmps and many other factors in the Recording Chain, it's been my observation that generally, quite tremendous attention is given on the W.W.W. and elsewhere, to actual choice of Mic etc. This Mic is good for ***** and so on.
Whilst I wouldn't dispute or argue with set minds in regard to such matters, in the Fifties, Sixties and even Seventies the period which is often viewed as 'Golden' in terms of Classic Recordings, the available Mic choices were far more limited, and PreAmps usually all the same, built as they were into the Console.
So how did they achieve such tremendous difference in Sound? Especially as in a Three Hour Session, in the Sixtie,s Musicians were most often typically expected to successfully lay down 4 separate Tracks in that given time, many of which would go on to be Huge Hits in the Charts.
It really came down to the Hands and Experience of the Players, them having their Whole Sound Together, the Inventiveness and Creativity of the Recording Engineers who worked hard precisely as I've described to get the best Sound, and the Quality of the Equipment in the Studio, usually involving a very Simple and Direct, but Superlative Quality Recording Chain.
Often in a Recording Studio.
Less is very much More.
Before you spend a lot of Money on Equipment.
Try these things, Experiment and Develop a mind that is Creatively Seeking the Best Sound Always, utterly regardless of 'what' you happen to be Recorded with at any given moment.
Later in a Recording Studio situation, such time well spent in exploring every available possibility for Improvement in Performance, will provide you with a knowledge that you can directly transfer to your current situation, inform and direct a confusing array of multiple choices, and enable you to converse with and translate in a practical manner, whatever it is that Producers and Engineers, are attempting to Achieve with your assistance.
But it starts in The Hands of The Player, their Instrument and Amp, all these must be as one.
Good Luck to All!
P
MK Bass Weed
Well-known member
That was....Awesome! (my best Tommy Boy Impression)
CElton
Well-known member
Holdsg
Well-known member
I actually know what warp and woof are. That's the kind of nerd I am.
Eilif
Well-known member
The first time I took notice of Tony Levin was listening to Yes' "Union" album in 1991. (Ya, I know, I don't get out much. What can I say?) But dang did that bass sound make me sit up and go "wow!"
I assume it was a Stingray.
I assume it was a Stingray.
Honest serious response.
In this day in age most professionals are not going to tell what to play unless what you have sounds really bad or extreme in some way.
I'm sure there are some old school guys that might tell you especially if they fell they have some sort of winning formula but really I think those days are just about extinct. I know at least where I have recorded I do not see that anywhere (A lot in Boston, some in California, NY and small amount in Nashville 10 plus years ago).
In this day in age most professionals are not going to tell what to play unless what you have sounds really bad or extreme in some way.
I'm sure there are some old school guys that might tell you especially if they fell they have some sort of winning formula but really I think those days are just about extinct. I know at least where I have recorded I do not see that anywhere (A lot in Boston, some in California, NY and small amount in Nashville 10 plus years ago).
boristhespider7
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 113
This is our new album. I recorded all 10 tracks with my Sterling 4 HS. You be the judge as to whether a EBMM sits well in the mix. I think it sounds awesome if I do say so myself. I own a Fender USA Jazz and a Lakland USA Joe Osborn (and a Stingray) but had no need to pull them out as the Sterling nailed the tone for every track.
iTunes - Music - The Steel Chops
iTunes - Music - The Steel Chops
Don't we all ?
Warp happens to wooden necks, and woof
is what bass speakers do.
[Actually, I used to work in a textile mill .... ]
`
Sounds good. Your singer sounds A LOT like the singer from The Badlees.
boristhespider7
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 113
Thanks! I'll have to check out the Badlees. I think the Sterling tone sounds great on the album.
CW Zing
Well-known member
That sounds frustrating... I used my SR5 on three albums (out of four), it got a ton of depth and, not only that, everyone kept saying "your tone is much better than our previous bass player's..." yadda yadda. It depends a lot on the engineer as well...
I just think the producer can be mostly obstructive and controlling, while not really taking the time for the bassist (as opposed to the drummer, who gets three hours finding the perfect noise gated snare sound...).
Manfloozy
Well-known member
I have a slightly different problem.... They ask my 'Ray if it has a different player back in the van....
Microbaroms
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 36
Some quick thoughts.
They are prompted by tiny snippets taken from various replies.
And basically are in regard to the importance of Proper Timing, which we all know to be essential for Bassists.
I remember one of the U.K.'s Top Producers who had been working with Chris Squire mentioning with great hilarity, that Chris believed he could determine timing inaccuracies to within 1 millisecond.
That's a thousandth of a second, and would be thought of as nonsense, by most Recording Engineers, which is why Trevor Horn thought it so amusing. Now there are many very experienced Players on this Forum, and so some will no doubt be aware that at times individuals can be rather obsessively focussed about particular aspects of Performance.
Usually, its Tuning that becomes the most commonly focussed aspect for most people in my experience, but sometimes spills out in diverse other ways, the point is, nowhere are the pressures of such attention more concentrated, that at the time of Studio Recording, where for Session Players anyway no mistakes are allowed generally, and for an Artist, their credibility as a Performer is defined forever.
Yet.
I remember when George Massenburg had Jeff Porcaro in his Studio and they were arguing about Timing, so George Recorded Jeff playing to a track, and proven him to be consistently capable of a Timing Accuracy he scientifically measured to within 1 Millisecond.
That is quite remarkable, but it's not the one case, where I have known people to be THAT accurate, as at a University where they had the necessary equipment, a Local Player known for the solidness of his Timing, was also proven to be accurate to within 1 Millisecond also.
But this is extraordinary.
Most great Players would be very many Milliseconds indeed away this Performance, who would be thought to be "Grooving Right in the Pocket" as it were, and that would be the case for a tremendous amount of Classic Hits with a quite fantastic sense and feel of Timing.
So if we think about these many Classic Hits with great Timing, realising they are Recorded to Analogue Tape, and with the Players simultaneously hitting the beat consistently, but with perhaps a spread between them, of very many Milliseconds, this is what I want you to think about, as I develop my main point.
What distinguishes the Sound of one Instrument from all others, is multi-various.
The manner in which it is touched, plucked, struck, blown, bowed etc. The rate of attack of the initial note, it's sustain, the time it takes to decay. There are many factors involved, including its fundamental tonality, which is of course, the sum many others.
But one thing distinguishes an "Instruments Sound" above all other factors, and that is the presence of harmonics. If you want to experiment with harmonics, open the lid of a Piano, depress the Sustain or Loud Pedal to lift the Damper, and strike the keys of two low octave strings quite hard, simultaneously. Provided you do it hard enough, you should hear and see, the other octave strings vibrating in sympathy, but also, the relative Harmonic Strings to that note, also vibrating right across the Metal Harp of the Piano, even though you never touched their keys.
The point I'm trying to make here, is that there is a fantastic amount of Harmonic Information that accompanies the Fundamental note, whenever you Play any Musical Instrument.
The thing is, yesteryear.
Apart from the odd dancing meter needle, people Recorded to Analogue Tape intently listening with their Ears.
Today, people overwhelmingly use their Eyes when making Recordings with large Flat Screens and brightly lit Monitors absorbing their full attention.
Moreover, one of the most tremendous differences in Digital Sequencing from Analogue Tape is the outstanding ease with which it is possible to make edits, visually and indeed 'correcting' any 'inaccuracy' in 'Timing' is thus a downright breeze.
I'm wondering how many people hereabouts, during a Recording or Mix have opened a Sequencer up as wide as its time field will possibly allow, and realigned whole Tracks, Sections, Phrases and sometimes just the odd note here, and there to get the Timing, just 'perfect'.
Sometimes, such edits can be necessary, but what I am trying to get to, is with Digital Recording the phenomenal accuracy which can be applied, means that if you align two sound sources with absolute accuracy, so that they happen truly simultaneously; what will in fact happen, is that the louder of the two sources, will overwhelm the quieter of the two, and effectively mask, particular aspects of the quieter one's sound.
Generally, it is the innately complex differentiating Harmonic Content of the two Musical Instruments which will suffer inordinately.
I trust this makes perfect sense.
Now.
Our Brains work in an interesting way.
If you consider the wide range of senses that all of us possess.
And the fact that all these senses are receiving information all the time about the world around us.
Our Brains have to select what information is most important to whatever the task is at hand, and thus obscures or ignores whatever it considers to be of a lesser degree of importance.
If you have ever observed a person looking at you, but known they are not looking at you, intuitively realising that they are thinking about something deep on their minds. You will have seen a Human Brain shutting off many aspects of external stimuli, so that the Human Mind can concentrate on whatever is the subject of its current preoccupation.
But it does this with Audio. So it's important to realise the Human Brain seamlessly reallocates the amount of resources it reserves for Audio, dependent upon how much Visual Information is present, as we by Design or Evolution, give greater weight to Visual Stimulus and under such circumstances the Audio Information is handled by a much smaller portion of the Brain.
This is one reason why we do a different Mix for Film Sound Tracks. And it's one reason, Recording Studios and Mastering Studios alike often feature a somewhat darkened interior. Not all do, not everyone is cognisant with these facts, but there is more behind this darkened room idea, than simply an aspect of aesthetic preferences.
The Studio Boss of the former Atlantic Records Label felt this point so strongly that he had all the Meters on their Large Format Recording Consoles blackened out to force the Studio Engineers to utilise their Ears and Brain, rather than their Eyes. He was a very clever chap and prior to his Recording Career was in fact involved in The Manhattan Project.
Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So whilst it might seem good to the Eye and Brain, to edit these things to 'perfection' and indeed might appear to give you more 'punch' to the sound, if that is the focus of your concentration, there are other ways to add 'Punch'.
However.
It is perfectly possible that solely concentrating on this singular aspect of Performance one might be quite unaware of the extent masking and loss of harmonics are having.
Even more commonly probable, is that when other Musical Instruments and elements are later added to the Mix, with an even more complex array of harmonic information, to process.
The masking often occurs at this later stage, when you are not concentrating on it, and by the time you do, it's too late to do anything about it without a complete remix, or a set of stems sent to the Mastering House.
This latter point has over recent years become a more and more common occurrence, especially for Recording created by the more inexperienced Project Facilities, and this is part of the reason why.
By analogy.
It's a bit like the fact, that the manner in which modern food bought from supermarkets, has been heavily processed, takes away something from the food which our bodies actually need, often it is minerals, and so on.
In the same way, whenever Audio is unnecessarily processed, something is usually lost forever during that process, which is a vital part of the experience we would do better to keep in truth, and often that 'something' is 'Harmonic in Nature', and the "Nature of Timing" has 'something' to do with that.
A truly Musical Recording involves an innately complex set of differentiating and competing factors, and the relationship between these are crucial to the quality of the Recording.
When we totally focus on one particular aspect Musical Performance, we usually do so at the expense of other important elements, so retaining 'distance' that enables a 'proper sense of perspective overall ' is I feel, an often missed truth and of course one reason we have 'Producers'.
And why in my opinion, as I outlined earlier the best way to Record, involves getting the "Playing and the Sound" together right at the very point of Performance, simply Capturing that which is all there, even before it even enters the mic.
When Harmonic Information is masked, or in some manner dissipated through too much processing, what is happening it that the very Hallmark of the Musical Instruments Sound begin to gets lost. Something Singularly Characteristic of its Musical Quality is gone forever, and that is what its most important to not only Capture but also Preserve.
If you really think about it, for instance, perhaps, knowing you will need more treble on a given sound source in the final mix, it's very much better to add that little extra clarity as you actually Record, rather than to add treble at the Mixing stage, where you would inevitably raise the accompanying level of unwanted and distracting background hiss and noise as well.
I trust this makes, more, perfect sense.
Of course with a EBMM onboard E.Q. adding a little treble when its needed in a Recording is the easiest thing in the world, and no one even needs to touch an Amplifier or a Recording Console to attain that correction.
It's right there, ready at the Players hand.
We all realise that having two competing Musical Elements in the same Frequency Range can be a recipe for trouble.
This is why in the middle frequencies where a Mix can become dense, it is often possible to add far greater additional clarity to a Mix utilising Minus E.Q. rather than adding anything at all.
Here again, the EBMM Bass provide adequate shaping equal to and beyond whatever the need, for if more mid is required in a sparsely Arranged Mix it can be provided it is available.
However in a Complex Dense Mix, the 'Sound can be shaped according to the demands of the Orchestration.
To be honest.
I learnt this powerful Minus E.Q. Mix Solution approach from Gus Dungeon who had a Recording Studio in a nearby Town.
He later sold it to Jimmy Page, (A British Session Guitarist) otherwise known as 'Lil Jim' to differentiate him from 'Big Jim' who often worked together on Recording Sessions.
For fun, here is a picture of Gus (who Recorded Elton John's Hit 'Your Song' and co founded Rocket Records) with 'Big Jim', (Sullivan) plus another old friend, quite easily the most recorded Hit Session Drummer in the U.K. who played on many of my earlier Productions, (and everybody else's).
For more fun.
And those interested in Session Players.
Here's four World Class Hit Session Drummers all together.
Brian Bennet, Steve Smith, Clem Cattini and Bobby Graham
P
They are prompted by tiny snippets taken from various replies.
And basically are in regard to the importance of Proper Timing, which we all know to be essential for Bassists.
I remember one of the U.K.'s Top Producers who had been working with Chris Squire mentioning with great hilarity, that Chris believed he could determine timing inaccuracies to within 1 millisecond.
That's a thousandth of a second, and would be thought of as nonsense, by most Recording Engineers, which is why Trevor Horn thought it so amusing. Now there are many very experienced Players on this Forum, and so some will no doubt be aware that at times individuals can be rather obsessively focussed about particular aspects of Performance.
Usually, its Tuning that becomes the most commonly focussed aspect for most people in my experience, but sometimes spills out in diverse other ways, the point is, nowhere are the pressures of such attention more concentrated, that at the time of Studio Recording, where for Session Players anyway no mistakes are allowed generally, and for an Artist, their credibility as a Performer is defined forever.
Yet.
I remember when George Massenburg had Jeff Porcaro in his Studio and they were arguing about Timing, so George Recorded Jeff playing to a track, and proven him to be consistently capable of a Timing Accuracy he scientifically measured to within 1 Millisecond.
That is quite remarkable, but it's not the one case, where I have known people to be THAT accurate, as at a University where they had the necessary equipment, a Local Player known for the solidness of his Timing, was also proven to be accurate to within 1 Millisecond also.
But this is extraordinary.
Most great Players would be very many Milliseconds indeed away this Performance, who would be thought to be "Grooving Right in the Pocket" as it were, and that would be the case for a tremendous amount of Classic Hits with a quite fantastic sense and feel of Timing.
So if we think about these many Classic Hits with great Timing, realising they are Recorded to Analogue Tape, and with the Players simultaneously hitting the beat consistently, but with perhaps a spread between them, of very many Milliseconds, this is what I want you to think about, as I develop my main point.
What distinguishes the Sound of one Instrument from all others, is multi-various.
The manner in which it is touched, plucked, struck, blown, bowed etc. The rate of attack of the initial note, it's sustain, the time it takes to decay. There are many factors involved, including its fundamental tonality, which is of course, the sum many others.
But one thing distinguishes an "Instruments Sound" above all other factors, and that is the presence of harmonics. If you want to experiment with harmonics, open the lid of a Piano, depress the Sustain or Loud Pedal to lift the Damper, and strike the keys of two low octave strings quite hard, simultaneously. Provided you do it hard enough, you should hear and see, the other octave strings vibrating in sympathy, but also, the relative Harmonic Strings to that note, also vibrating right across the Metal Harp of the Piano, even though you never touched their keys.
The point I'm trying to make here, is that there is a fantastic amount of Harmonic Information that accompanies the Fundamental note, whenever you Play any Musical Instrument.
The thing is, yesteryear.
Apart from the odd dancing meter needle, people Recorded to Analogue Tape intently listening with their Ears.
Today, people overwhelmingly use their Eyes when making Recordings with large Flat Screens and brightly lit Monitors absorbing their full attention.
Moreover, one of the most tremendous differences in Digital Sequencing from Analogue Tape is the outstanding ease with which it is possible to make edits, visually and indeed 'correcting' any 'inaccuracy' in 'Timing' is thus a downright breeze.
I'm wondering how many people hereabouts, during a Recording or Mix have opened a Sequencer up as wide as its time field will possibly allow, and realigned whole Tracks, Sections, Phrases and sometimes just the odd note here, and there to get the Timing, just 'perfect'.
Sometimes, such edits can be necessary, but what I am trying to get to, is with Digital Recording the phenomenal accuracy which can be applied, means that if you align two sound sources with absolute accuracy, so that they happen truly simultaneously; what will in fact happen, is that the louder of the two sources, will overwhelm the quieter of the two, and effectively mask, particular aspects of the quieter one's sound.
Generally, it is the innately complex differentiating Harmonic Content of the two Musical Instruments which will suffer inordinately.
I trust this makes perfect sense.
Now.
Our Brains work in an interesting way.
If you consider the wide range of senses that all of us possess.
And the fact that all these senses are receiving information all the time about the world around us.
Our Brains have to select what information is most important to whatever the task is at hand, and thus obscures or ignores whatever it considers to be of a lesser degree of importance.
If you have ever observed a person looking at you, but known they are not looking at you, intuitively realising that they are thinking about something deep on their minds. You will have seen a Human Brain shutting off many aspects of external stimuli, so that the Human Mind can concentrate on whatever is the subject of its current preoccupation.
But it does this with Audio. So it's important to realise the Human Brain seamlessly reallocates the amount of resources it reserves for Audio, dependent upon how much Visual Information is present, as we by Design or Evolution, give greater weight to Visual Stimulus and under such circumstances the Audio Information is handled by a much smaller portion of the Brain.
This is one reason why we do a different Mix for Film Sound Tracks. And it's one reason, Recording Studios and Mastering Studios alike often feature a somewhat darkened interior. Not all do, not everyone is cognisant with these facts, but there is more behind this darkened room idea, than simply an aspect of aesthetic preferences.
The Studio Boss of the former Atlantic Records Label felt this point so strongly that he had all the Meters on their Large Format Recording Consoles blackened out to force the Studio Engineers to utilise their Ears and Brain, rather than their Eyes. He was a very clever chap and prior to his Recording Career was in fact involved in The Manhattan Project.
Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So whilst it might seem good to the Eye and Brain, to edit these things to 'perfection' and indeed might appear to give you more 'punch' to the sound, if that is the focus of your concentration, there are other ways to add 'Punch'.
However.
It is perfectly possible that solely concentrating on this singular aspect of Performance one might be quite unaware of the extent masking and loss of harmonics are having.
Even more commonly probable, is that when other Musical Instruments and elements are later added to the Mix, with an even more complex array of harmonic information, to process.
The masking often occurs at this later stage, when you are not concentrating on it, and by the time you do, it's too late to do anything about it without a complete remix, or a set of stems sent to the Mastering House.
This latter point has over recent years become a more and more common occurrence, especially for Recording created by the more inexperienced Project Facilities, and this is part of the reason why.
By analogy.
It's a bit like the fact, that the manner in which modern food bought from supermarkets, has been heavily processed, takes away something from the food which our bodies actually need, often it is minerals, and so on.
In the same way, whenever Audio is unnecessarily processed, something is usually lost forever during that process, which is a vital part of the experience we would do better to keep in truth, and often that 'something' is 'Harmonic in Nature', and the "Nature of Timing" has 'something' to do with that.
A truly Musical Recording involves an innately complex set of differentiating and competing factors, and the relationship between these are crucial to the quality of the Recording.
When we totally focus on one particular aspect Musical Performance, we usually do so at the expense of other important elements, so retaining 'distance' that enables a 'proper sense of perspective overall ' is I feel, an often missed truth and of course one reason we have 'Producers'.
And why in my opinion, as I outlined earlier the best way to Record, involves getting the "Playing and the Sound" together right at the very point of Performance, simply Capturing that which is all there, even before it even enters the mic.
When Harmonic Information is masked, or in some manner dissipated through too much processing, what is happening it that the very Hallmark of the Musical Instruments Sound begin to gets lost. Something Singularly Characteristic of its Musical Quality is gone forever, and that is what its most important to not only Capture but also Preserve.
If you really think about it, for instance, perhaps, knowing you will need more treble on a given sound source in the final mix, it's very much better to add that little extra clarity as you actually Record, rather than to add treble at the Mixing stage, where you would inevitably raise the accompanying level of unwanted and distracting background hiss and noise as well.
I trust this makes, more, perfect sense.
Of course with a EBMM onboard E.Q. adding a little treble when its needed in a Recording is the easiest thing in the world, and no one even needs to touch an Amplifier or a Recording Console to attain that correction.
It's right there, ready at the Players hand.
We all realise that having two competing Musical Elements in the same Frequency Range can be a recipe for trouble.
This is why in the middle frequencies where a Mix can become dense, it is often possible to add far greater additional clarity to a Mix utilising Minus E.Q. rather than adding anything at all.
Here again, the EBMM Bass provide adequate shaping equal to and beyond whatever the need, for if more mid is required in a sparsely Arranged Mix it can be provided it is available.
However in a Complex Dense Mix, the 'Sound can be shaped according to the demands of the Orchestration.
To be honest.
I learnt this powerful Minus E.Q. Mix Solution approach from Gus Dungeon who had a Recording Studio in a nearby Town.
He later sold it to Jimmy Page, (A British Session Guitarist) otherwise known as 'Lil Jim' to differentiate him from 'Big Jim' who often worked together on Recording Sessions.
For fun, here is a picture of Gus (who Recorded Elton John's Hit 'Your Song' and co founded Rocket Records) with 'Big Jim', (Sullivan) plus another old friend, quite easily the most recorded Hit Session Drummer in the U.K. who played on many of my earlier Productions, (and everybody else's).
For more fun.
And those interested in Session Players.
Here's four World Class Hit Session Drummers all together.
Brian Bennet, Steve Smith, Clem Cattini and Bobby Graham
P
