Thinking of coming back to EBMM, please help with new Axis

[matt.sorensen1]

Hello all,

Let me start by saying I have owned 2 EB Axis in the past. The first one was a mid 90's flame top original, which I wish I never sold. The 2nd was probably an early 2000's purple top. At the time I think the purple one went for $2000 new. The early 90's one I bought used.

I only owned the 2nd one (purple) for probably a year before trading it in. At the time I was very disappointed in the quality for the price. The Floyd was not held in place by anchors, but simply drilled in the wood with screws. Eventually, the screws moved in the wood basically making the trem useless. Also, in just that year the purple top faded significantly.

Now, I did not come hear to bash the brand. To this day, I recall how much I loved the neck and always wish I had another Axis, but after the debacle with the purple one, I moved away from the brand for 20 years. With that said, the neck on that guitar has always been in the back of my mind. I have noticed in recent years according to youtube reviews, the quality has gone up significantly (as has the price). I was shocked when I saw them over $3k now.

I am in the market for a new guitar and are torn between the new Peavey HP2 and the EB Axis. Reviews on both are excellent, but I feel the 10" radius neck of the EB calling my name. However, now in 2022 the EB demands a $1000 premium on the HP2 and other than new fancy woods and tops, do they still have the same issues? Do they fade? Is the gotoh still simply screwed in the body with no anchors? While I understand this is an EB forum and expect to get positive reviews regardless, I am hoping someone can guide me in the right direction. I feel the HP2 is the safe choice, but I will always have the thoughts of that EB Axis neck in the back of my mind.

Please tell me why (or not), I should pay an extra $1000 for the Axis and where the product stands on the issues I have mentioned.

 

[jayjayjay]

I've heard about fading in the past. I think it depends on the finish, and how it's stored. If you're storing it on a wall hanger by a window where the sun hits it every day, just about any finish will shift . I left my Axis on a stand in my office for a few months but tried to ensure it wasn't in a spot that received direct sun. So far, I haven't noticed fading. I've since put it back in its case, where I usually store it.

I don't know if the FR is Gotoh - it's stamped Music Man, and I think they make them in-house now. I couldn't tell you if the studs go into inserts or straight into wood, but I haven't noticed any shifting or movement, and I live in Alaska, which has extreme climate shifts between seasons.

FWIW, I've seen the Peavey HP2. It's an evolution from EVH's original design that inspired the Axis. I believe they share a similar asymmetric neck carve, but I think the HP2 has a compound radius board (10-14") while the Axis is a straight 10" radius. Also, the Axis has a flat top, while the HP2 is carved. The stock Axis has an oil and wax finish on the neck; I don't know what the HP2 has - maybe satin lacquer? I haven't played an HP2, though.

 

[racerx]

Hey Matt,

RE: Studs -- first-time I ever heard of that being an issue. Did you try working with your dealer or customer service to see if they could address it back then? Their support is great and in-house. I agree it shouldn't have happened. I have two Floyds from EBMM (2012 and 2021) both appear to share the same construction (no visible stud enclosure). Both of the guitars have hundreds+ of hours of playtime, frequent dive bombs/flutters, and no issues.

RE: Color Fading -- I can't speak to this but what jay said sounds about right. Some dyes/colors don't play well with continued exposure to light.

RE: Cost -- yep, it sucks, but such is life if you want a premium guitar from an experienced all-American shop. The quality is tip-top and second to none. Given that, their prices are on the level when comparing to equitable shops and product quality.

You should buy the guitar that gives you the most peace of mind and is aligned with your goals as a hobbyist/gigging musician/professional/collector/etc.

 

[matt.sorensen1]

Just an FYI, I did call the shop back in the day about the studs and they told me they did have some problems, but never agreed to fix the issue. Also, all Floyd based guitars typically have stud inserts. If you buy a Floyd aftermarket, they come with them. Every Floyd guitar I have owned in 40 years has had them. The allen screw that adjusts the trem height should actually screw into a steel sleeve/stud that is glued in the body, not the wood. You can see here the black outer sleeve.



Regarding color fading, I have all my guitars on a wall with periodic sunlight and NONE of them have faded, except for the EBMM Axis.

I was hoping to hear these issues were addressed with recent models.

 

[racerx]

Just an FYI, I did call the shop back in the day about the studs and they told me they did have some problems, but never agreed to fix the issue. Also, all Floyd based guitars typically have stud inserts. If you buy a Floyd aftermarket, they come with them. Every Floyd guitar I have owned in 40 years has had them. The allen screw that adjusts the trem height should actually screw into a steel sleeve/stud that is glued in the body, not the wood. You can see here the black outer sleeve.

Regarding color fading, I have all my guitars on a wall with periodic sunlight and NONE of them have faded, except for the EBMM Axis.

I was hoping to hear these issues were addressed with recent models.

My guitar may have those enclosures around the studs, I just can't see them from the top. Anecdotally. I don't have any issues with either of my Floyds and your experience doesn't seem to be reported as a widespread issue. As for color, I have no issues on my guitars.

Outside of the forum, I don't ever see complaints about EBMM outside of people that don't jive with the nut width.

 

[matt.sorensen1]

So I just got off the phone with a tech at the factory and apparently they still screw right into the wood and do not use the sleeves. While I would be less finicky about this issue if the guitar cost $500, I can't see overlooking this on a $3000 guitar. That is a real bummer, as I was seriously considering one again.

 

[DrKev]

Hi Matt. It's really not a problem. Music Man have been making guitars since 1985. They know what they are doing. They have nearly four decades of experience, not to mention all the customer service and warranty return/repair data they have collected. If there was an issue they'd know about it. In all my 16 years on this forum, literally tens of thousands of forum members, not to mention the other guitar forums out there, I do not recall a single complaint/warranty/customer service issue that was related to this, from any brand of guitar. Not one. Wood is more than strong enough for this and the inserts are not necesary. Think of the two screws that hold the trem claw. Sleeves are not necessary there either and they take just as much force, and get more regular adjustment that could potentially weaken the wood. I had my 17 year old Silhouette Special apart a few weeks ago, the trem studs are as solid in there as ever.

I understand if you have concerns, and we may never change your mind, and that's totally OK. You have to be 100% comfortable with your purchase decision. Just go armed with all the info.

Good luck!

 

[matt.sorensen1]

I disagree. Even $500 guitars with the lowest level Floyd use Stud inserts/sleeves. If you turn a wood screw in a 2x4 back and forth and/or apply forward or backward pressure, it will weaken/open the hole. Once you remove a screw from a wood hole, the fit is NEVER as tight the 2nd time. I am sure many have not had an issue, but I did. With the sleeve design, the screw has metal on metal contact, which will not wear or change position. Bear wood should NEVER hold a floyd trem in place. The Floyd trem was 100% designed to be used with sleeves. No matter what brand floyd that is on the market, when you buy them they come with sleeves. No one else screws the studs directly into the body. Just saying.

Again, not wanting to bash EBMM on their design, or be confrontational, I am just disappointed.

 

[fogman]

Hey Matt,

Welcome!
I have both the guitars in question; I bought them both last year.
Though they have similar DNA, but they are very different guitars in my opinion.
I love them both, but the Axis is hands down my most favourite of all of my guitars.
The neck is to die for and I wish all my guitars could have that neck. Nothing feels better.
As far as an overall package, the Axis is perfect. No, I am not saying that because we are on an EBMM forum.
I love my Peavey HP2 NOS; it's one in my top 3 favourites. However, one can easily figure out why the difference in price.
The Floyd on the Peavey is licensed but made by Peavey... and it shows.
The tuners seem okay so far, but the locking nut, trem, pots, and toggle switch, tone/volume knob.... I plan on replacing them all.
The fine tuners on the trem are garbage, as well as the toggle switch. This is coming from a guy who's never modded or swapped anything out of any of my guitars in 30 years. Once those items are taken care of, it will be that much better of a guitar.
The push pull pots are a nice touch, and you can get some very nice tones from the pickups which are made by Peavey.
It's a very versatile guitar and has it's own voice. It's very different tonally from the Axis or the EVH Wolfgangs for that matter.
As previously mentioned in the thread; the fretboard is a compound radius and is flatter and a hair wider than the Axis.
Comforable, but a very different feel.

When I forked the mega bucks to get my Axis, I was initially stressing out that I spent that much on a guitar. lol
But in the end, I know it was a solid investment for a great guitar.

I can't say much about the old quilt/flame tops finishes fading as they did. I do know it was an issue back then, and to my knowlege that was take care of with future models.
I have a nice flame top 25th Anniversary guitar which is essentially a larger Axis. That guitar is now 13 years old, and for a couple of years hung on the wall and had it's share of sunlight exposure. The top still looks new.
Sunlight can be nasty to a lot of things; not just guitars. If they're exposed enough, then sh-t's going to happen.
I hope this helps.

 

[dibart77]

OK, I'll chime in here too. I am somewhat an authority. I own 72 Axis (12 of which are Axis Tributes), 7 Axis Sport, and 2 Axis Super Sports. I also own 12 EBMM EVHs.

A) Regarding fading... it was *ONLY* an issue on EVH's and Axis Tributes that were hand dyed. The EVH's didn't have any UV stabilizer in the clear and the dye faded. The Tributes did have UV blocker in the clear (per Tomas at there factory) but in time that proved to not work either. But for ALL OTHER AXIS models, the body is cleared first, THEN the top color is sprayed over the clear. Those DO NOT FADE. Out of the 69 non-Tribute Axis's I own, zero have faded. Sounds like you had a Tribute, Matt.

B) Regarding the trem studs -- again, I have MANY MANY MANY Axis's who all have the wood screw stud without the bushing/insert. They are ALL 100% PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING. Older ones have the black screw, newer ones have the chrome screw. ZERO of these have ever moved and I do a fair amount of trem playing, dive-bombs, etc. I don't go crazy like Jack Butler, but these have been totally stable for me. Yours might have been somehow defective? The older Floyd Roses (going back to the EVH days) were Gotohs. The newer one is not a Gotoh, although I don't know who makes it for EBMM. They all use the wood screw approach. If it was good enough for EVH and Steve Lukather and the Petrucci Majesty (also has wood screw style), it's probably good enough for us humans.

I have played the current HP2. These are not made in USA, they are made in Czech Republic (whereas when EVH was with them, they were made in Mississippi). Not saying that means the Peavey is lower quality than the EBMM (although it felt lower quality to me), but you're paying for a company in California paying their workers a living wage vs.... "less than that" (I'm trying to be diplomatic -- but there's a reason why they are made in CZ and not USA). P.S. Nothing that Peavey sells now is made in USA -- the Meridian, MS, factory was shut down some years ago and everything is built overseas.

 

[GoKart Mozart]

A) Regarding fading... it was *ONLY* an issue on EVH's and Axis Tributes that were hand dyed. The EVH's didn't have any UV stabilizer in the clear and the dye faded. The Tributes did have UV blocker in the clear (per Tomas at there factory) but in time that proved to not work either. But for ALL OTHER AXIS models, the body is cleared first, THEN the top color is sprayed over the clear. Those DO NOT FADE. Out of the 69 non-Tribute Axis's I own, zero have faded. Sounds like you had a Tribute, Matt.

Jeff (@dibart77 )....just out of curiosity, what is the oldest regular production Axis in your collection? Reason I ask, I have a purple Axis that has a body stamp date of Dec '95 that was obviously finished using the older hand dyed method since there is definite fading except for areas covered up by the trem/pickups. This particular one would've been a very early production Axis so maybe they still hadn't switched over to the new method of clear first + color second?

 

[dibart77]

Jeff (@dibart77 )....just out of curiosity, what is the oldest regular production Axis in your collection? Reason I ask, I have a purple Axis that has a body stamp date of Dec '95 that was obviously finished using the older hand dyed method since there is definite fading except for areas covered up by the trem/pickups. This particular one would've been a very early production Axis so maybe they still hadn't switched over to the new method of clear first + color second?

It's a fair question. Maybe my "ONLY" was a bit too hyperbolic. I know the Axis EX's (leftover EVH bodies that were used for guitars until they ran out) were hand dyed. And I suppose some of the early Axis' were hand dyed. My earliest Axis's are two (!) that were built on 4/17/1996. I'm not sure when they switched to the not dyed method, but these two are trans red and trans black and there's zero fading (I dumped the Floyd to check behind it). And it SEEMS to me these are not dyed (you can tell the difference, although I can't describe how you can tell). I would say yours looks dyed and I agree it's faded. Although not as bad as some. My first EBMM EVH (trans purple) that I bought new in 1992 (my first EBMM) is pretty yucky fade.

 

[Ventanaman]

So I just got off the phone with a tech at the factory and apparently they still screw right into the wood and do not use the sleeves. While I would be less finicky about this issue if the guitar cost $500, I can't see overlooking this on a $3000 guitar. That is a real bummer, as I was seriously considering one again.

I have a 1999 Axis with screwed-in trem posts and a Gotoh Floyd that I have gigged regularly for over 20 years and have had zero issues.

 

[tbonesullivan]

Just an FYI, I did call the shop back in the day about the studs and they told me they did have some problems, but never agreed to fix the issue. Also, all Floyd based guitars typically have stud inserts. If you buy a Floyd aftermarket, they come with them. Every Floyd guitar I have owned in 40 years has had them. The allen screw that adjusts the trem height should actually screw into a steel sleeve/stud that is glued in the body, not the wood. You can see here the black outer sleeve.

View attachment 40334

Regarding color fading, I have all my guitars on a wall with periodic sunlight and NONE of them have faded, except for the EBMM Axis.

I was hoping to hear these issues were addressed with recent models.

Apparently you don't follow the high end market very much, as blue and purple stains are notorious for fading over time. Even current model PRS core models in the 5-6K range deal with this issue, sometimes within only a year or so after they were produced. The blue stain / dye used for the Scott Chinery collection has also faded, so that now many are quite a bit different in color than they were originally.

That particular purple color is very vibrant, and unfortunately about as color stable as the aniline red dye used on the original les paul bursts.

I disagree. Even $500 guitars with the lowest level Floyd use Stud inserts/sleeves. If you turn a wood screw in a 2x4 back and forth and/or apply forward or backward pressure, it will weaken/open the hole. Once you remove a screw from a wood hole, the fit is NEVER as tight the 2nd time. I am sure many have not had an issue, but I did. With the sleeve design, the screw has metal on metal contact, which will not wear or change position. Bear wood should NEVER hold a floyd trem in place. The Floyd trem was 100% designed to be used with sleeves. No matter what brand floyd that is on the market, when you buy them they come with sleeves. No one else screws the studs directly into the body. Just saying.

Again, not wanting to bash EBMM on their design, or be confrontational, I am just disappointed.

The bridge posts on EBMM guitars are not meant to be adjusted or removed. Action adjustments are accomplished using the neck angle and truss rod. It's not a system that most are used to, but it has worked for them on their tremolos for years, all of which work on the same principle. Also as far as I know, bushings are NOT glued into place. They are held in place by pressure and friction only, and the bushings can over time become loose and tilt in their holes. They also remove a significantly larger amount of wood from the area right next to the tremolo cavity, which does weaken the wood more than the screwed in studs.

 

[Axis Sport]

Another long time Axis player, currently have a 99 model which has been gigged to death by the person I bought it from and there is absolutely no movement of the post screws. I have had other Axis models and never had any issue stated by OP. Not saying it does not happen, but have been around these guitars a long time and not something I have ever heard about before. All manufacturers can have defects and sounds like you had one, but based on my experience this one bad example would not stop me from buying another Axis. If this was a real problem, it would be all over the Internet and that is not the case. Good luck in your purchase.

 

[matt.sorensen1]

Apparently you don't follow the high end market very much, as blue and purple stains are notorious for fading over time. Even current model PRS core models in the 5-6K range deal with this issue, sometimes within only a year or so after they were produced. The blue stain / dye used for the Scott Chinery collection has also faded, so that now many are quite a bit different in color than they were originally.

That particular purple color is very vibrant, and unfortunately about as color stable as the aniline red dye used on the original les paul bursts.


The bridge posts on EBMM guitars are not meant to be adjusted or removed. Action adjustments are accomplished using the neck angle and truss rod. It's not a system that most are used to, but it has worked for them on their tremolos for years, all of which work on the same principle. Also as far as I know, bushings are NOT glued into place. They are held in place by pressure and friction only, and the bushings can over time become loose and tilt in their holes. They also remove a significantly larger amount of wood from the area right next to the tremolo cavity, which does weaken the wood more than the screwed in studs.

So a Floyd rose guitar action is adjusted by both the studs and the truss rod. They are meant to be turned. Be playing and taking apart Floyd guitars for 35 years. Once you find the right height you should only need to adjust rod unless you change string gauge or tuning. Here is the deal. Whether there are problems or no problems, the Floyd was designed to be used with sleeves that are pressed and glued in place. Every single other manufacturer in the world does this. Any deviation from this is wrong…period. No maybes, no well it works anyway. It is wrong and a shortcut you would not find on a even $600 guitar with a fake Floyd. This is fact. Not taking away from these beautiful instruments, but this is fact. I’d bet that if some here took all the strings off their guitar, removed the bridge and played with the studs back and forth, they find some movement. You will not feel movement with the bridge under tension per say.

 

[BrickGlass]

Matt, you are cracking me up. Coming in as if EBMM doesn't know what they are doing with the trem post screws. You are aware of how many people own these guitars. They are rather popular. The company is plenty successful and your complaint, if it was a common problem (or even a minor problem) would've been dealt with...oh, I don't know, 35 years ago. Nobody has the problem but you. I've been here for a long time, follow all the guitar forums I can, EBMM and other companies, and I've simply never heard of this issue besides you. Sounds like these guitars aren't for you.

 

[dibart77]

The Axis guitars are designed for the bridge to sit FLUSH ON THE BODY. Decked. Raising the trem posts is NOT how you're supposed to set the action. Here's how you are supposed to set the action, as described by Drew Montell, EBMM's lead engineer:

How do you raise the posts and not have the trem leaning backwards if it's supposed to be decked? Just flat out wrong. You could do that on a floating trem, but not on a decked one. So you can tell us how it's supposed to be done and we're all crazy, but I think not following the manufacturer's instructions is why your bridge posts got messed up.

Matt, obviously you're just here to tell us what you think as opposed to ask any of us our advice/opinion (despite the fact that your thread says, "please help"). In any case, you have 5 posts here and the folks who have responded to your ask for help have an average of 2439 posts, and a combined total of 24391 posts. But clearly we don't know what we're talking about and you do. Got it. Why did you come and ask if you knew the answers, sir?

If EBMM is trash to you, there are plenty of other great guitars in the world. Go for it! Good luck to you.

 

[matt.sorensen1]

Just to be clear. I did not come hear to trash. Came to find out if the fading and trem post issues still exist, and one of them does. It is just my opinion. I think they are beautiful guitars with an amazing neck but I can’t get past the post design.

Anyway I actually made my decision and went with an ESP. This is same price as an axis but with a 12” radius, bare knuckle aftermaths, and German Floyd (with sleeves lol) hand built in their HQ Japan factory. Thanks for everyone’s feedback and sorry if I stirred the pot.

 

[racerx]

Beautiful guitar Matt, hope you enjoy. You didn't stir the pot, but you did ask people to prove a negative and dismissed their feedback/observations. Good luck with your new guitar!