Trem stability question

[akozols]

Hi,

I curious about the trem stability of the vintage trem, especially on the models where it sits on the body. I'm looking into getting a Sil or Sil Special. I've had different guitars with and without locking trems. I really like the Floyd system and am comfortable with it's quirks. I've had some with vintage trem and Sprezels and have had limited success.

The one problem I've had with the vintage trem/Sprezel/non-floating is that the high strings tend to go about 15-10% sharp after a dive bomb. With a floating system, a little tug on the bar would bring them back. In all my "experiments", I believe that it's from the string loosening around the Sperzel post. If you're intersted, I'll describe why.

Anyways, could someone with the vintage trem give their impressions on how well it handles the dive bombs?

thanks,

Al

 

[tommyindelaware]

a locking tuning key shouldn't have any wrapping to come loose........
when i put a string on....i first turn the tuning key so that the hole is aligned w/ the neck....then put the string in the hole...then pull the string taunt by the tag so it's partly already to pitch.....then tighten the wheel......then finish tuning. usally doen't end up w/ 1/3 of a wrap.
also ..i'm very big smoothing & lubing the nut slots.

Hi,

I curious about the trem stability of the vintage trem, especially on the models where it sits on the body. I'm looking into getting a Sil or Sil Special. I've had different guitars with and without locking trems. I really like the Floyd system and am comfortable with it's quirks. I've had some with vintage trem and Sprezels and have had limited success.

The one problem I've had with the vintage trem/Sprezel/non-floating is that the high strings tend to go about 15-10% sharp after a dive bomb. With a floating system, a little tug on the bar would bring them back. In all my "experiments", I believe that it's from the string loosening around the Sperzel post. If you're intersted, I'll describe why.

Anyways, could someone with the vintage trem give their impressions on how well it handles the dive bombs?

thanks,

Al

 

[jimmyp]

I have the vintage trem on my Silo Special - I find it's very good at returning to pitch, but I'm not a fall off the side of buildings type of trem user - I very rarely divebomb fully to slack. The locking machines are very good and if you restring like Tommy suggests, there should be minimal movement on the post
dave

 

[tvanveen]

I have the vintage trem on my AL set to float...no problem.

 

[jongitarz]

I have owned a SSPT with trem, and I could dive bomb all day and it stayed in tune.

 

[Raz]

I'm a wanker on my SUb 1's with their own version of the vintage trem and locking tuners and I have no issues...in fact my floyd equipped guitars need more attention then my SUB1's. I also owned two Silo Specs, and again both were put through the wringer trem wise, and tuning was never a problem. Keep in mind its not so much the trem as it is the tuners, especially with the vintage trems since they sit on the body. So just to emphasize, I have an EBMM JP 7 with a FLOATING trem, no crappy nut lock like a floyd, just straight up Schaller M6-IND locking tuners, just like the Silos we speak of...and I flutter, pull up, dive, slam, shake and what not...and that baby never goes out of tune.

 

[Raz]

I have owned a SSPT with trem, and I could dive bomb all day and it stayed in tune.

Where do you find the time to do all of those repairs?

 

[nobozos]

Here is a discussion about trems from an earlier thread.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7950&highlight=floyd+rose

I think it may help.

 

[akozols]

Thanks for the replies. I had a Sil Special a few years ago and it had the orginal Wilkinson trem and the old style locking tuners. It stayed in tune doing Satriani-ish whammys as long as I added graphite to the nut.

I've played around with it alot and I'm sure my tuning problems are at the tuners. I install the strings the way you are supposed to. I align the hole, pull string taut, then lock and tune. The string will wrap 1/4-1/2 turn. I should have mentioned that it's an older Peavey with Sperzels. I'm not sure if they are original Sperzels or replicas.

Here's how I narrowed it down. I replaced the bridge saddles with locking saddles made my Phantom guitars. I replaced the nut with Slip-stone and filed and smoothed the slots(lubed also).

If I do a subtle whammy, all the strings stay in tune. I'll do a dive bomb, and the G, B,and high E strings will be sharp. While they are sharp, I'll put pressure on the string behind and in front of the nut. I apply ennough pressure that the string will go sharp a full note. After doing this, the strings are still sharp. I can pull the string back in tune by pulling on the string close to the tuner. That tells me that it has to do with the tuners. It might be the fact the the tuners are not real Sperzels and I have a gear-slop issue.


A true test will be to replace with a new set of tuners. I just wanted to get your opinions to see if you can truelystay in tune with a non-floyd system.

thanks,

Al

 

[tommyindelaware]

what kind of string tree is being used ? is it set too low?they should be smoothed & lubed if there is no locking nut. it should be so that the angle from the nut to the tuners is as close to straight as possible....w/o allowing the string to rattle in the nut slot. this is difficult to tell w/o at least a photo.
other than worn out pins......it's usually not the tuners.i do hate those peavey tuners though. just a little overtightening....and they are shot to hell. don't get me started on peavey guitars. it will get ugly fast !!!!!
holdin back big time..& signing off on this one......hoping someone just asks me about them...........

Thanks for the replies. I had a Sil Special a few years ago and it had the orginal Wilkinson trem and the old style locking tuners. It stayed in tune doing Satriani-ish whammys as long as I added graphite to the nut.

I've played around with it alot and I'm sure my tuning problems are at the tuners. I install the strings the way you are supposed to. I align the hole, pull string taut, then lock and tune. The string will wrap 1/4-1/2 turn. I should have mentioned that it's an older Peavey with Sperzels. I'm not sure if they are original Sperzels or replicas.

Here's how I narrowed it down. I replaced the bridge saddles with locking saddles made my Phantom guitars. I replaced the nut with Slip-stone and filed and smoothed the slots(lubed also).

If I do a subtle whammy, all the strings stay in tune. I'll do a dive bomb, and the G, B,and high E strings will be sharp. While they are sharp, I'll put pressure on the string behind and in front of the nut. I apply ennough pressure that the string will go sharp a full note. After doing this, the strings are still sharp. I can pull the string back in tune by pulling on the string close to the tuner. That tells me that it has to do with the tuners. It might be the fact the the tuners are not real Sperzels and I have a gear-slop issue.


A true test will be to replace with a new set of tuners. I just wanted to get your opinions to see if you can truelystay in tune with a non-floyd system.

thanks,

Al

 

[akozols]

Tommy,

I'll PM you with more info. I don't want to use the board for talk of other guitars.

The headstock doesn't use a tree. It has three to a side tuners. All the strings come over the nut and drop down 6 degrees to the tuners. Also, when each string comes thru the nut, it bends to the right or left about 4 degrees.


thanks,

Al

 

[tommyindelaware]

sounds like it suffers from the dreaded gibson nut syndrome !!!!!!

Tommy,

I'll PM you with more info. I don't want to use the board for talk of other guitars.

The headstock doesn't use a tree. It has three to a side tuners. All the strings come over the nut and drop down 6 degrees to the tuners. Also, when each string comes thru the nut, it bends to the right or left about 4 degrees.


thanks,

Al