Help! Tremolo stability

[Vly]

Hello everyone!

I have little problem with tune stability on my silhouette special. After i do dive with tremolo and back in start position, pitch on G string becomes a bit higher. About 1/4 of note. In trying to resolve problem, find i have one different spring in middle position of tremolo and spring on low strings side is a little bigger than other. Think maybe a problem is there?
My tremolo is set to be float. But not extremely. Just about 1mm from body. I can rise pitch, and guitar stay in tune very well, when tremolo get back in start position. What do you say?
Do you know, does Fender springs compatible with MM?

 

[Decreed One]

Does the g string also go slightly flat after a deep bend and then you can pump the bar and bring it back in tune?

 

[Roubster]

The G string is the worst offender. Make sure that the nut slots are properly lubricated and you have to tune it perfectly and retune after bending and using the bar raising and lowering the pitch. There is definitely a right balance where the G string will stay in tune, but what I found is that it is relevant to the tuning of the high B and E strings as well. You just really have to fine tune to get it just right.

 

[bbake1]

Try Carl's set up.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/49594-how-do-you-guys-setup-your-silos.html

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/46427-tremolo-setup.html

 

[Astrofreq]

I had this same problem on a Axis SS. It was driving me crazy and I tried EVERYTHING I knew how to do. Even my usual guitar tech couldn't figure it out. I eventually sent it back to EB and they deduced that it was an extra groove that had been dug into one of the tremolo posts (the ones that the trem pivots on) from years of use. They replaced the posts and it worked like a charm. I ended up selling it, but at least it worked while I had it.

 

[DrKev]

In principle any springs will do if they fit correctly, but they may not all have the same 'strength' so you may have to adjust the claw to get the bridge back to where it should be.

As I've said before, Verheyen is a great player and well meaning but his knowledge of physics is lousy. His set up is completely unnecessary and doesn't address the most basic point of tuning stability which is eliminating friction. You'll notice at the end if his video, he's noticeably out of tune (to my ears). My strat does as good as that, if not better, and my Silo Special is the most stable guitar I've ever owned, without having to angle the trem springs. The bridge does not care what springs it has or how they are arranged, only the total force of all of the springs is important.

By all means try it if you like, it can't hurt at all, but if you have problem with tuning stability you have a friction issue and that needs to be addressed.

Use the smallest amount of lubricant, at the saddles and the nut slots. Some people like vaseline, lip balm/chapstick, 3-n-1 or mineral oil, graphite/pencil lead. I generally use 3-n-1 oil applied with a toothpick or cotton bud, just the minimum amount necessary. (I keep chapstick in my gig bag too, just in case, mint flavoured of course!)

K.

 

[Vly]

Does the g string also go slightly flat after a deep bend and then you can pump the bar and bring it back in tune?

Sorry, i`m not sure, i understand your question?

Try Carl's set up.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/49594-how-do-you-guys-setup-your-silos.html

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/46427-tremolo-setup.html

I tried, but without success. Same thing, all time.

I had this same problem on a Axis SS. It was driving me crazy and I tried EVERYTHING I knew how to do. Even my usual guitar tech couldn't figure it out. I eventually sent it back to EB and they deduced that it was an extra groove that had been dug into one of the tremolo posts (the ones that the trem pivots on) from years of use. They replaced the posts and it worked like a charm. I ended up selling it, but at least it worked while I had it.

Sorry, i don`t know, what is "tremolo posts and pivots"?

DrKev, i think it is right, when you say: "The bridge does not care what springs it has or how they are arranged, only the total force of all of the springs is important."

Thank you all for advices!
I must try with some lubricant. Maybe that can help.

 

[dhalif]

i did mine with 2 springs and V shape, never went out at all

 

[beej]

As I've said before, Verheyen is a great player and well meaning but his knowledge of physics is lousy.

I usually bite my tongue when this comes up, but I couldn't agree more. His trem setup approach doesn't make any sense. (But he is a helluva player.)

 

[ksandvik]

I usually bite my tongue when this comes up, but I couldn't agree more. His trem setup approach doesn't make any sense. (But he is a helluva player.)

I think his justification is that the heavier strings need more force than the lighter one for tremolo work so to have an even force pulling the strings should have different stiffness levels.

Same with me, I have a normal trem spring setting on my Silo and it works just fine -- it's one of the most tuning-stable guitars I've ever owned. And I have a floating trem bridge and even use it a lot.

 

[mrsaid86]

Try Lubing the nut....I use a mixture of graphite and Vaseline and it works great on strats which are notorious for tuning issues. Now I dont know where to post this, but my axis is having some issues....My trem is flat on the body, not floating. I have the action set at 3/64ths on the 12th fret with the relief at around .012...Problem is I will tune it to E and set it over night and then Ill check the tuning and it is down nearly to Eb and the rest of the string are down as well. Ill check the action and see that its now damn near 2/64ths at the 12th fret. This happens the other way also Ill notice my action high and the strings are tuned almost E sharp...Anyone know whats up with that... I live in colorado and I hear these can be affected by temp and humidity...??? Im getting frustrated cause Im tired of adjusting the truss rod....any suggestions other than spraying the neck with poly? Thankx in advance

 

[beej]

This happens often? Every few months things may change as the weather does, but if you've got changes going on all the time I'd ask the customer service guys for advice.

Btw, I don't know if they're still doing this- but MM used to have a technique for sealing necks that are particularly prone to changes using superglue & acetone. I've had two that had the necks done. You can't tell the difference by feel (I didn't even realize one of mine had it done), but it definitely fixes the stability. Ask them.

 

[patpark]

The G string has always been problematic with tremolo bridges. The G string has a looser tension when compared to the other strings. When the tremolo bridge is lowered in pitch, the G string saddle actually moves slightly. This causes the sight tuning fluctuations.

Also the nut slot can build up dirt, grime sweat. The slots need to be clean and you should be able to pull the string straight up out of the slot with no resistance.

 

[fbecir]

I usually bite my tongue when this comes up, but I couldn't agree more. His trem setup approach doesn't make any sense. (But he is a helluva player.)

Well, I do not understand the physic (and I'm sure Carl does not also !) but Carl setup works perfectly !

 

[DrKev]

It works perfectly well because ANY arrangement of the trem springs will work well. I've put two springs on just one side of the claw, which according to Carl shouldn't be any good at all. In fact it works perfectly well no matter what side of the claw I put the springs. There is no difference in how the strings react or the tuning stability. The mere act of setting it up is often enough to overcome whatever minor friction was causing a problem in the first place. His idea is simply not necessary and distracts from the real task - minimising friction.

 

[beej]

As Kev says, the arrangement of springs or claw isn't going to affect the tuning stability. (As an aside, just try finding three springs that are identical ...) It's friction that makes the difference.

The other thing Carl says is that the claw angle will affect how many semitones you can pull up on each string (3/2/1 on the G/B/E strings). That's not affected by the claw angle - you can't change the physics of the bridge (fulcrum distance, etc) by changing that.

Go ahead a try the claw at different angles- hell, put it the opposite way and set the bridge up. You'll still be able to pull up the same amounts on the G/B/E strings.

 

[the24thfret]

+1 that video with Carl is bogus.

In my opinion, the best way to setup a tremolo is to experiment. It may seem complicated at first, but the more you work with it, the more familiar you will get with it and the better you will be able to set it up. Kind of trial and error -- that is how I learned to work with Floyd Rose and full floating trems so well.

 

[Roubster]

A bit off topic, but anybody heard or has any experience with the trans-trem on those certain strange and "inovative" guitars? hehe It does look quite interesting to be able to transpose the tuning to 5 keys and have the chords in equal tuning while using the trem. I still prefer a good quality vintage trem like EBMM make.

 

[Vito Porkleone]

Lubing the nut is the best defense against tuning issues. On my last string change, I used (gulp) a drop of olive oil in each slot. Yes, a waste of fine nectar; however, being that I was in a pinch, I'm sure McGyver would approve. So far it has worked like a charm.

 

[maxim]

Poz! Ako nisi resio problem, evo ti link koji pomaze http://joe.emenaker.com/TremStabilizers/BackBox.html. Meni jeste ,kupio sam taj stabilizator i radi opasno tačno, a imam jos jedan komad koji mi ne treba jer sam u međuvremenu prodao drugu gitaru sa tremolom.