True Short Story

[Movielife]

Brilliant posts. Very informative.

Microbaroms - I've had a very similar experience a few times over the past 5 years or so. Expected to buy a Fender, didn't, ended up being very excited about EBMMs AGAIN, and being super impressed. The price difference is, IMO, shrinking between the expensive F*****s and the EBMMs, meaning that the EBMMs are even better value nowadays.

Now I'm on a Bongo hunt.

 

[Microbaroms]

Quote: " Expected to buy a Fender, didn't, ended up being very excited about EBMMs AGAIN, and being super impressed. The price difference is, IMO, shrinking between the expensive F*****s and the EBMMs, meaning that the EBMMs are even better value nowadays."


Yes.

This was precisely my experience.

With "Sterling by Music Man" effectively widening the appeal of the Brand.

Ernie Ball Music Man appears to be to the demanding, knowledgeable and discerning, the Best Alternative at any price point Today!




Quote: "My standard disclosure"




I fully understand and appreciate, the genuine sincerity and warmth of your magnanimity towards your huge neighboring competitor.

Most especially so, because of my previously stated long held admiration of Leo Fender, and all his groundbreaking design innovations and breathtaking achievements in the Music Industry.

The essential, salient point of this thread is not to be disrespectful to Fender, far from it. Fundamentally, I didn't want or set out to buy a Ernie Ball Music Man Bass, I actually wanted, and set out, to buy a Fender Bass. That is the central point!

But the Quality of Manufacturing on the Music Man Bass and my experience of your Customer Service was so very superior on any and every level you could choose to measure it, that I was pushed towards buying an Instrument I didn't need, and away from one I did need, simply because my perceptions of Fender Quality and Customer Service was so far behind, in every respect.

Given that the Fender Corporation has access to far, far greater Capital Investment, Plant Facilities and Human Resources than Music Man, this is very greatly to your Credit, and alas, lamentably, greatly to Fenders discredit.

Grammy Award winning Al Schmitt once said to me, "If you are working with the best Producers and Songwriters in the World, have the Best Artists and Musicians in the Best Equipped and Sounding Studio in the World. You have to be pretty useless to make a mess of the Recording." By analogy, quite incredulously, this is what Fender have succeeded in doing.

Obviously, E.B.M.M. effectively use whatever resources you do have, to far, far greater effect. Individual people throughout the entire Chain of Production, and Company have a lot to do with this.



This is not a new phenomenon, it is the old, old story.

The tale of Great Companies getting too big to continuously propagate groundbreaking innovation or even manage production effectively, in terms of Product Quality.

The people at the top, losing touch with the workforce at the bottom, let alone actually listening customers who are loyal to the Brands wants and needs. With the yield to the Shareholders becoming the determining factor shaping dubious short term decisions, that compromise and damage both the reputation and longer term viability of the Brand.



For instance.

When a manufacturer deliberately chooses not to use conductive paint and effectively electronically shield its Instruments, thereby lowering costs per unit.

The purchasing customer cannot observe this by eye, but puts his Faith into the Brand, and Trusts The Premium Manufacturer, to undertake such elementary tasks on their behalf, not least because they have actually PAID a considerable Additional Sum, specifically to attain and receive Higher Quality.

To subsequently find Hum and Noise because of grounding issues, that should have been immediately detected during basic Quality Control Checks to Validate the Product prior to shipping, is a direct betrayal of the Consumers Faith, Trust and Loyalty to the Brand, and indeed, to the memory of the Companies Founder himself.

Fender® Forums • View topic - American Deluxe Jazz - Noise and Hum



It's only fair to write that there are many purchasers of Fender Jazz Bass Deluxes. that are overjoyed with their purchases, and remain very satisfied with the Product.

Equally, others are not. So after all the hard work I had put in prior to making my purchase, having benefitted from and taken on board the reports of others, I tenaciously intended seeing my investigations through to a helpfully decisive conclusion.


I didn't actually want to buy an E.B.M.M. Product, or set out to get another. I truly wanted to buy a Fender.

But the E.B.M.M. was Better Designed, Better Manufactured, and in Handling, Played and Sounded far Superior in every respect.

So I bought the Best Instrument Available to me.




P

 

[Microbaroms]

Quote: "our biggest challenge is the customer not really open to change."


As ever, you make deeply perceptive points.

Your statement is an objective fact. Guitarists and Bassist are, on the whole, by nature, extremely conservative in their tastes, so its vitally important to recognize and fully accept that.

But continuous progress and innovation within the confines of that conservatism is possible and can be achieved. Indeed I would argue, that as and when A Definitive Design Template already exist, as you have disclosed. Gradual stepped evolution within that context, will yield far greater commercial success, than any over reaching attempt at complete revolution.


An analogy.

The first generation of the new MINI Brand, was more than twice as successful as the best estimates had anticipated. My son bought one and I distinctly remember going down the Motorway when he got it, with lots and lots of genuine admirers giving us big smiles and the thumbs up, to indicate how much they liked it.

I understand that when they came to Design the second generation of MINI Product, extensive Market Research confirmed that their Customer Base loved the shape and style of the Existing Car, and expressed very strongly that they didn't want that Established Design Aesthetic to be messed with. However, for the Manufacturers, the demands of continuous legislative change in respect to Vehicular Emissions, and the need to offer Larger Engine Choice meant that a more Spacious Engine Compartment, was absolutely necessary.

The Challenge for the Designers was to provide for the inclusion of tremendous Performance Based Technical Innovations, demanding greater space, but within the context of a well established Body Design that took the Brand thrusting powerfully forward. But achieve this in an Evolutionary Way, that succeeded in actively carrying the existing Customer Base with it, rather than suddenly disenfranchising them; as well as attracting New Customers to the ever increasing Alternative Derivative Versions being continuously released, to strengthen and widen the appeal of the Brand.

I think there's a salutatory lesson there for The Music Industry. At my age, most of the "Innovations" that young salesmen enthusiastically tell me about today, I can recall being brought to the market, one, two and three times, already, over the years.

I truly do believe the overwhelming majority of potential customers at the Premium End of the market, want, value and demand, Intrinsic Product Quality, far more than Innovation per say.



The other point I would make is this.

If the customer is not really open to very much change, then it is an entirely undisputable fact, that properly satisfying those that wish to purchase a well produced, Standard Product, should be an absolute walk in the park, for any manufacturer to produce.

How many years, and how much practice, does someone need to make a Perfect Fender Precision Bass?

Is it in any way acceptable to get far, far worse at doing something, the more one has done it?

This remarkable achievement, enigmatically remains Fenders Hallmark Quality.



I'm lamentably convinced that the tooling that drills the holes for the Tailpiece/Bridge on the Sunburst Version desperately need a calibration and resetting, as for several years now, every single one I've encountered seemed just a little, off the ideal position. I think they work four bodies at a time, per machine. Have they never heard of Monitoring or Statistical Process Control?

Making a Perfect Instrument, that appeals to Potential Customers, is not simply about having a brilliantly Innovative Design. Rather it's about ensuring a great many, seemingly very small factors that are crucial to the Instruments Accuracy, Set up and Playability are right.

And none of these things are hard to do, but someone needs to be employed to do them, to ensure the Product is produced correctly. Perhaps someone has been taken off a job, as an internal cost cutting measure.



So now, you understand, I also wish to buy an additional Fender Product.

However, again, have been unable to do so, because of small inaccuracies in manufacturing.

Compare a Sunburst and a White Precision in their Advertising Pictures, you can observe what I'm writing about. On the actual Product itself, the Strings have to be pushed to the limit on the tailpiece to get them in ideal alignment on the neck, between the pickup pole pieces, and equally spaced at the Tailpiece.

Such fundamental inaccuracies in manufacturing processes should not be!




Quote: "I pay for anyone who works for me to belong to the across the street from the factory, have never had a layoff ."




As a potential Fender customer, it's extremely frustrating to see obvious cosmetic errors, poor wood joins on the body, gapping in the fretboard etc.

And I have concluded that such errors can only be the result of hiring temporary staff when orders are high, and laying them off when the orders decline. In any case, even if that, as I strongly suspect, should be. Such problems should not get through the filter of effective Quality Control Checks.

Yet I have regularly seen Premium Priced Instruments, that I would like to buy and own, suffering from such maladies, on Dealers Walls. This is the problem I face as a customer, and why, instead of having the innate confidence to order in the Fender Bass I truly believed I wanted; I instinctively preferred to choose to buy the E.B.M.M. that was available, which was Manufactured Perfectly.

Of course, although the handling and playability was also perfect, the subsequent tests performed above, proved the E.B.M.M. Sounded Better anyway.




Increduously.

One thing I noted about the Cheaper Fenders I tried in my recent tests, was that the overall Quality and Playability of what should be vastly inferior Instruments, held up very well indeed, by direct comparison to their Premium Priced, far more expensive counterparts. In fact I thought in some respects they were superior.

This applies to Raw Materials used, Product Build, Fit, Finish, Playability and Sound.

There's very something wrong somewhere, for that to be the case.




I understand, and have formed the opinion, that Fender have a policy of not responding to Customer Service Requests, relying upon Dealers to handle such things. I believe this to be a mistake.

It has made the Corporation appear aloof, detached and coldly unconcerned about the needs and problems regarding their Customers Experiences in regard to their Products. I'm sure this is not what they intend, but either lack the will or commitment of resources, and if Internet Forums are reporting the truth, customers often feel fobbed off by Dealers when they have a problem.

Big Poppa! You are the living embodiment of the essential difference I am referring to. Accessible, Knowledgeable, Helpful.

It's really not beyond the wit and wisdom of Fender Corp, to provide someone.

And really, no way to run a Company.




Quote: (EQ's) "they sound ok dimed on the floor of Guitar Center...all the while leaving a lot of room for the sophisticated enough tonal control."




I think Dudley Gimble is greatly to be admired for his fine contribution to the Design of your Products. Your E.Q.'s are perfectly designed created and implemented in production, and indeed the grounding and shielding as well.

I have no doubt that this is a major reason for your Fine Instruments continuing as first choice by the most demanding and discerning of Session Players, such as Tony Levin mentioned earlier in the section comparing Direct Injection Boxes.

But not everyone gets it right. And I have used and owned Hi-Fi Amps where the Designers have chosen well, and others, where they have chosen poorly. Wonderful Rupert Neve used to say "Implementation is everything", and a well implemented Design is a pure Joy to hear!

Its strongly seemed to me, having tested and tried the Fender On Board Implementation at considerable length, that there was no comparison to the E.B.M.M. in terms of Actual Player Usability for a Studio Session, Tonal Versatility, and the kind of Instrument Flexibility one might rightly assume to be available on the Model in question.

The Fender is a truly excellent design idea, that appears to have been poorly researched and developed, and even less well implemented in final production.




In contrast.

The E.B.M.M. E.Q. Implementation.

Is far more Aurally Satisfying, Wide Ranging and Musically Effective in enabling the Player to easily hit, the "Working Tone Target" that needs to be applied for the aesthetics of a given Track to be Recorded.

Within the confines of reason, you can get whatever sound you want, and get it easily and quickly, without undue fiddling and get right on with the Playing.

It's a useful tool that tremendously extends the practicality and usability of the Instrument.




It's simply beyond my comprehension, and overwhelmingly disappointing to me as a potential customer of many Fender Instruments, both Guitars and Basses, that a manufacturer can produce such inferior products as certain of those I have witnessed and tested.

Have the brass gall to let them out into the open market, where people can actually see them.

Then brazenly insult our intelligence, by offering such Products to us for sale.

I don't buy it. The approach is a poor marketing ploy.




Quote: "I pay a living wage in the factory, I have a victory garden for the employees to grow food. Frequent wellness initiatives.




No wonder your people produce good work.

You treat them like real people, instead of sheep and headcount.

May you long continue to enjoy the admiration and enviable reputation you so richly deserve!




P

 

[Big Poppa]

OK Micro

Let me defend Fender. Please. Lets use cakes.....A factory that makes 10,000 cakes is a big challenge....an artisan baker makes 1 cake....is it fair to draw conclusions regarding the intents and of the big cake maker and compare them to the artisan? I am not saying that Fender is not an artisan... but it is so much easier ...(HA! easier making guitars???)for us then it is for them.

I had the mini for awhile...fun car and it led to the collaboration with BMW for the Bongo.

The gap between the different countries of origin is very small now.....with all brands...Sterling By Music Man was almost too good.

Also I have a blog post you should read about the evolution of business....in the real world when the company continues to grow that growth eventually creates opportunity for new competition...natural cycle.

Micro I didnt edit but I really wish that you would cut Fender some slack...some of your conclusions are factual a lot of them are just that personal conclusions....

I have said this a million times...Choices.....It is all about choices. I love Fenders...I love most instruments...they are art to me. The world is better with more choices for us to play and create and enjoy.

 

[Microbaroms]

Quote: "I love Fenders...I love most instruments...they are art to me."



A Musical Instrument Lover.

The above, succinctly describes my position.

I have collected Musical Instruments since I was a small boy.

By now, I believe I know quite a lot, about an extremely wide range of them.

Working with Large Corporations as I continuously do, I also know quite a lot about manufacturing.

People are often amazed at just how very quickly I can discern innate positive qualities of Products and Judge potential shortcomings.

For instance, from time to time before Major Products are launched, different manufacturers have invited me to give in writing my opinion and judgment, in regard to their Product.

I certainly did so on the vehicle you previously owned, after a Drive on their Test Track. So clearly, some feel I have a deeply perspicacious, highly authoritative opinion, well worth seeking out.




All I ever wanted to do.

Was walk in a Guitar Store, find an Instrument of Acceptable Quality, give them the money and take it to my Private Countryside Studio, overlooking the beautifully rolling fields, where I keep my extensive Musical Instrument Collection.

I was easy, I don't actually need anything at all, so a Sienna Sunburst Stratocaster, a Sunburst Precision Bass, or a Sunburst Jazz Bass, would have done me, if I couldn't have found a suitable Jazz Bass Deluxe.

I've spent many weeks looking, and travelled a long way to a great many Dealers, and not found anything at all, that genuinely compared favorably, to those I already own.

I intend to buy a handful of new Instruments in the near future. But those I buy, will unimpeachably be, strong, positive examples of manufacturing craft.

The unassailable fact is, I already own the ideal examples to be able to precisely and correctly make experienced and soundly safe judgments.

Regarding that.




My personal viewpoint remains.

Musical Instruments are not purely works of Art.

They are a sophisticated blend of Art, Science and Technology.

Moreover, they are active examples of Handcrafts and Manufacturing Process.

These distinct elements, each in their own way, profoundly contribute to a Desirable Product.




I also am a Fender Lover. Here are more Fender Lovers.

Fender® Forums • View topic - No Shielding in expensive Fender basses???




Let's be clear.

These dissonances are therefore.

Foremost, a perfectly straightforward, Management Issue.

Kaizen philosophy and Kaizen method

KAIZEN - The Japanese Strategy for Continuous Improvement



I do apologize for negatively mentioning another Manufacturer within the context of your Excellent Forum, and hope you will find yourself, able to forgive me. However, the common experience of those attempting to talk directly to Fender Corp itself, is unresponsive insouciance.

But I hope and trust the sure knowledge that your Company has and will be the direct beneficiary of their accrued losses, and that your Fine Products will be going to an excellent home where they will be positively appreciated and very actively used, will eventually prove, to be more than adequate compensation for any inconvienient embarrassment.




P

 

[Microbaroms]

Quote: " i gave the di comparison a listen and to my ear there are big differences between them!"



Feedback on the Tony Levin tests of Direct Injection Boxes.

"Tony really feels he could use any box and he would adjust his tone and playing style to achieve his desired result. I said this right after the test.

Jerry and Pete Caigan felt the same way pretty much. Tony is not a techno dweeb like the rest of us... he fancies himself a musician first and as such will use whatever is on hand and do the best he can with that. A real pro.

Also I don't really want to speak for him (or anyone in the room) too much. Tony was actually more curious about what I thought and wants to discuss this next time we get together (which I'm sure we will). Once we do I will share more of what he has to say.

I however, as a bass player / engineer / techno dweeb myself want everything "in there" when it comes to a DI box. I don't believe you can just adjust this stuff with EQ and be done with it... missing elements are just that to me, missing elements.



Tony endorses Radial, so yes, he likes a couple of their boxes. He has owned a Juice Box since Ken has made them, so he liked that as well.

He had a lot of respect for the TAB V71 as well as the Whirlwind Director but for a different reason.

He had a negative vibe with the Ampeg before the test, but completely changed his mind after the test.

He was very happy with the sounds from the U5.

He was a bit disturbed to hear the passive bass though his Neve module but not too worried since he pretty much only uses an active bass ... ever!

Also once Ken and I told him the problem could (should) be adjusted with a DI transformer he was quite relieved.

Everyone felt that the Countryman deserved it's place in studio history.



Now as I have stated (many times, even before this test), IMHO there is no one "winner" and never will be.

I've always had at least four different direct boxes around as I see them like microphones, I use the one that compliments the source the best for the given program material that is being worked on. Know the tools, know what you like and only then will you know "what is truth in audio" grasshopper...

This listening test was meant to be a reference for people to hear different DI boxes with both active and passive basses and decide what they like and want to use personally.

Like everything in audio it will come down to what the individual deems "good for the money".



With all that said let me share a couple personal opinions...

To me with an unlimited budget the TAB V71, the Juice Box, the Evil Twin, the REDDI, the U5 and the Ampeg SVTDI would be my first choices category (half of them for my active bass the other for my passive).

If I was on a more limited budget, the JDV, the Countryman and the JDI could go a long way with both basses, quite impressive IMHO, especially the JDV.

If I was flat broke the Director would be fine and I'd learn to deal with what I feel are the missing elements (and would probably only use whichever bass I felt worked best with that box).



In the "DI's that I feel you could beat a difficult artist to death with" category I would pick the TAB V71 and the REDDI... not only are they great DI boxes but they are so well built they make excellent personal defence weapons. So for me this hedges these two boxes up a little bit....

In the "I'm so lazy I don't want to carry anything heavy category" it would be the JDV, JDI, Countryman and Whirlwind boxes... some are a light as a feather which kind of makes you wonder what they wound that transformer with???

Adam who was running the PT's rig at Dreamland had been looking for a good live DI box alternative and the Whirlwind won out for him. Robert Frazza told him the connectors crap out easily but once you replace them they are great boxes that last.

Just goes to reaffirm that people choose different DI boxes for all sorts of reasons... not just sound quality."




I hope this information, along with all the sound samples made available in my post earlier in the thread, will prove to be genuinely helpful to anyone looking for a Direct Injection Box to utilise for Recording.

Bear in mind that the Recording Studio Engineers involved in these tests are Top Studio Operators discerningly utilising the best equipment available anywhere, on a daily basis.

Unlike them, you may not have an unlimited budget. But perhaps the tests and sound samples will give you confidence to make an affordable, well informed decision.

Whatever the actual level of your status and income.

I trust so, enjoy your Music Making!




P

 

[Microbaroms]

Quote: "Thanks for the heads up on the concert - I will look in if in London."




One of the points, regarding Sponsoring The London Symphony Orchestra's Concert in the beautiful sunshine of Trafalgar Square at the weekend, was that later in the program, an Orchestra of younger players who have been hard at work rehearsing with The LSO behind the scenes, have had a wonderful an opportunity to learn from and play with, many of the Finest Players in the World; and then, perform before an Audience of up to 8,000 people, in one of the most famous, Historic Locations anywhere on Earth.

Encouraging young and emerging Talent. This was the approach, part of an International Educational Programme, and here's some short film of the Event taken by folks with Camera's in the Audience.


The Firebird from Igor Stravinsky.

London Symphony Orchestra at Trafalgar Square. 12.05.2012

London Symphony Orchestra

London Symphony Orchestra - YouTube



Introduction.

London Symphony Orchestra concert in Trafalgar Square - 12-05-12 -

London Symphony Orchestra concert in Trafalgar Square - 12-05-12 - Introduction.AVI - YouTube




Although I have played Bass on Recordings for certain Artists.

Later years saw me much more involved in Scoring, Arranging and most especially, Conducting.

Here's some other things we have sponsored, that you may well find tremendous philosophical food for thought.

To be honest, the last two are so very deeply and emotively moving, that they made my openly weep tears, and still do if I see them again.


This was at Oxford.

Itay Talgam: Lead like the great conductors

Itay Talgam: Lead like the great conductors - YouTube



Benjamin Zander: Classical music with shining eyes

Benjamin Zander: Classical music with shining eyes - YouTube



Evelyn Glennie: How to listen to music with your whole body

Evelyn Glennie: How to listen to music with your whole body - YouTube



Evelyn Glennie is one of the World's Greatest Musicians, but is none the less profoundly deaf, and has been since a child. She can tune here Instruments very precisely indeed.

You Tube is a marvellous thing! Someone I met (who I really can't remember) worked with me in the eighties, and has posted half a dozen old recordings I did. (Several of which, I also can't remember, but some had Radio 1 Airplay).

I don't keep my Old Recordings, because I think it makes one's focus, very backward looking, but it was fun and a puzzle to remember them.



But YouTube is a trmendous additional way to get an idea about different Bass Products.

Clearly, from all I've heard Ernie Ball Music Man are the very finest Sounding.

So A BIG THANK YOU to Big Poppa for continuing to manufacture.

The Very Best Bass Guitars in the World you can buy!

Between The LSO and my new EBMM Bass.

I had a truly wonderful Birthday.




P