Truss Rod Adjustment

[DaGuy]

Hi,

I'm getting a bit of a buzz from my Axis Sport. I've never adjusted a truss rod but paying $40.00 for setups is getting a bit old. In order to maximize my chance for success I would like to know when I'm looking down the neck from the bridge to the headstock which way should I turn (counter or clockwise) to get rid of a buzz?

Thanks!

 

[beej]

In general, if it's buzzing on the lower frets you need more relief (loosen the truss rod). To do this, turn the truss rod 1/4 turn or so (sometimes a bit more).

If you're looking from the body towards the neck (looking right at the face of the truss rod wheel), it's counter clockwise.

Btw, once you've done that, you can give the neck a gentle pull forward from the headstock to try and accentuate the motion. Then re-tune, play and see if it needs any more adjustment.

 

[DaGuy]

In general, if it's buzzing on the lower frets you need more relief (loosen the truss rod). To do this, turn the truss rod 1/4 turn or so (sometimes a bit more).

If you're looking from the body towards the neck (looking right at the face of the truss rod wheel), it's counter clockwise.

Btw, once you've done that, you can give the neck a gentle pull forward from the headstock to try and accentuate the motion. Then re-tune, play and see if it needs any more adjustment.

Great, I'll give a try. Thanks!

 

[straycat113]

If you are going to get into setting up your guitars, I would recommend you buy an old beater off ebay or maybe you have one home and experiment on it, just to play it safe. If you are going to do it on your Axis, like beej said go a 1/4 turn but just be careful and dont go to far.

 

[4Boogie]

This is very interesting thread. I've found it impossible to get my action as low as I like it without getting fret buzz. I sent my axis back to the factory to have it returned to factory specs. When I got it back, no fret buzz but the action was high especially passed the 12th fret. I adjusted the neck to my liking but fret buzz is back, g string is the worst. It is annoying but I've learned to live with it.

 

[MikeVt]

This fret buzz thing is a bit of a rathole. It's been discussed here many times, but what's never been really clear is what constitutes the bad kind of 'fret buzz'. From my experience, assuming there is nothing wrong with the frets, any time you set your action low, you are going to get fret buzz if you pick the string hard enough - even if it's set up perfectly. Let's call this 'string rattle'. The higher you set your action, the harder you can pick without getting that rattle. I like my action low, so I get it with ALL of my guitars if I pick hard (EBMM, Gibson, Ibanez, PRS) - across most frets and all the way up the neck. I have to either pick lighter or put up with it. As a matter of fact, if you listen to the piezo intro to 'Hollow Years' by Dream Theater from the Live at Budokan DVD or some of the tracks from 'An Evening with Petrucci & Rudess', you can pretty clearly hear that John gets it too. I've resigned myself to the fact that this is normal.

If, however, I couldn't get notes to ring out no matter how lightly I plucked, or if the rattle was localized to an area of the fretboard, or if a specific fret rattled much worse than the others, I would then call it buzz and would be looking to make adjustments (truss rod, saddles) or seeking a qualified tech to look for fret issues.

I'd love to hear others' opinions/advice on this, because I've come to these conclusions based on my own experience, time on this board, and in order to maintain my sanity. If I didn't, I'd spend 100% of my time chasing 'fret buzz' and 0% time playing.

Mike

 

[Roubster]

Oh yea, the fret buzz topic...at first I was obsessed with this. I could not stand the idea of my guitars having fret buzz anywhere on the neck. I also thought that it was bad and the set up was bad. Of course I have learned otherwise since, and I have NORMAL fret buzz on both my 20th Silo and Silo Special with nice action that I like. It is not super low action either, but it is not audible through the amp...unless I hit the strings very hard on the clean channel or through the piezo on the Silo Special. And Mike is right about JPs buzzing on the "Evening woth Petrucci and Rudess"...I think the main reason why you can hear that buzzing is that JP uses the heavy JazzIII picks, which will make it more audible than if he were to use a lighter pick for the acustic type of stuff. And he does prefer very low action. So the bottom line is that it connot be avoided 100%, unless you raise the action considerably and want to play slide guitar all the time hahaha.
I have checked out MANY EBMMs at couple different GCs and I always check out the set up, the neck relief and the action...I just like doing that. They were all pretty much set up nicely with NORMAL fret buzz, and prefect playability.

The best way I have personally found to have the lowest action with acceptable fret buzz is by checking how far I can usually bend the high E, B and G strings before they fret out. If the notes start fretting out only after a whole tone, than its probably a little too low and there will be significantly more fret buzz. I try and get the action to where I can bend the high E and B strings to about 2 whole tones past the 12th Fret without the notes fretting out. This is my personal opinion and the way I have found to set up my own guitars...hope this info might be a little useful to some.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

..... but it is not audible through the amp....

That's key.

Every one of my electric guitars will buzz acoustically. If they don't through an amp, they are not buzzing.

There are specs on the EBMM site for setup. Look in the FAQ's. I find them to be very helpful.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Some great points raised above. Some people do freak out over a little fret buzz when actions are set low but as has been said - if it doesn't come through the amp then why worry. However it will be more noticeable when using a Piezo.

The main point I wanted to make here is that the truss rod is not the panacea to curing all fret buzz. The truss rod will only affect the middle part of the fretboard - it will bow the neck forward (relief) or backwards (back bow). - The one thing you don't mention is where on the neck the buzz is occurring. if its at the lower frets towards the nut it usually ain't the truss rod.

 

[MikeVt]

There are specs on the EBMM site for setup. Look in the FAQ's. I find them to be very helpful.

Jack, I got my start with the FAQs - and they are very good. However in my opinion, they are missing the discussion about acoustic buzz/string rattle. They talk about what adjustment to make if you get buzz on the lower or higher frets. There's really no discussion about the fact that trying to eliminate ALL buzz is likely to be a futile exercise. The first time I tried doing my own setup, I spent DAYS going back and forth with the truss rod trying to get it 100% buzz free - until Jonguitarz straightened me out.

Mike

 

[beej]

Solid advice. With low action comes some buzz, that's just the way it goes.

 

[4Boogie]

when the buzzing is coming from the 1-5 frets could some kind of fret leveling or pleking help?

 

[beej]

If a particular fret is buzzing, it might need to be dressed (see your tech). If there's buzzing across several of the lower frets, most likely you need more relief in the neck.

 

[4Boogie]

my frets were leveled and dressed when I sent it back to the factory but like I said in my previous post, when I adjusted the neck so the action is to my liking I get a loud buzz on my G string. Its not like I set it super low either. The action on my non MM guitar is way lower and only get slight buzzing. To me it seems the ftrets need to be more flat instead of being so round....I dont know a better way to describe it. I'm no luthier

 

[beej]

Not sure if this is what you mean, but the frets shouldn't be flat, they're "crowned" on top. If you got that done at the factory then they will have been done right. So it should not need any more fretwork. (Leveling will make sure they're all the right height with respect to one another. Dressing rounds them out so they're the right shape.)

In terms of setup, the truss rod is used to set the relief of the neck. Usually you get it straight (with a bit of relief) so it won't buzz on the lower frets, then adjust the saddle heights to lower the strings. The combination of the two gets you where you need to go.

It sounds to me like you need more relief, but again, I'm saying this w/o seeing the guitar or having any idea how it plays. I would say if you're concerned about the setup you got from EBMM, call them and get their advice. Or take it to your local shop.

 

[4Boogie]

local shop is useless, I took it there before I sent it to the factory. And how do you adjust saddle height on a MM Floyd ? I see no way to lower them besides tightening the allen screws that hold the bridge in....thats not the right thing to do, thats what the local shop did

 

[DaGuy]

Hi, remember me? I started the thread. Dang, I had no idea it was going to generate that many interesting comments Sorry about those of you with the stubborn buzz. My case is a positive one. My low strings were buzzing to ridiculous levels -and I had noticed that my action had gotten a bit lower then when I bought the guitar- I don't have a climate control practice area so I suspected my truss rod was the issue. I followed the directions given to me in this post which is no more than a 1/4 counter-clockwise and the buzz is gone and my Axis is as good as when I bought it. Couldn't be happier! THANKS beej and everyone else for the tips!

 

[guitfiddle]

Nice! Glad to hear it.

I need to adjust most of my guitars this time of year as well, as the humidity comes way up to between 90 and 100% here in July which is way higher than during the rest of the year. Luckily (well, more good engineering than luck - but I'm lucky to own them) the EBMMs are SO EASY to adjust the relief on. Just one of the many good reasons to play them.

 

[cm_17]

local shop is useless, I took it there before I sent it to the factory. And how do you adjust saddle height on a MM Floyd ? I see no way to lower them besides tightening the allen screws that hold the bridge in....thats not the right thing to do, thats what the local shop did

I reckon you have an Axis? Is the bridge set to sit flush with the body (dive bombs only), or does it float (allows for slight pull-ups, too?)?

If the first, then don't touch the "allen screws that hold the bridge in". These are the trem posts where the whole system rests upon.

You can't lower the trem once it's flush with the body without either removing the shim plate under the Floyd (easy but time consuming) or shimming the neck pocket of your Axis (not hard, but tricky to do right on an Axis). Both things not recommended if you are not used to screw around on your guitar.

Also, the saddles cannot be lowered individually at all. They can only be raised by putting shims underneath. Non-recessed Floyds are not the easiest to set up perfectly, but most if not every Axis I've tried so far could be set up to approx 1.2mm action height at fret 22 with the factory-installed shims under the neck.

Think you need even lower action? Then don't get a guitar with a fretboard radius as an Axis . But that's a different story.

I have posted some easy Axis maintenance tips some time ago, looks like that thread went the way of all living things, lol: http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/42841-simple-axis-maintenance-attn-many-pix.html

 

[4Boogie]

"factory-installed shims"....can I get shims from the factory?. Why wasnt I informed when I sent my guitar back to the factory. If there is such thing I think it should be an option. I think I would be able to get the action I want without buzz if the neck was shimmed a hair. It needs just a hair more of an angle.