Question Truss rod adjustment

[mikeller]

I am drawing a blank on thinking this through and am hoping someone can help me.

If my guitar (Majesty) action seems great on frets say frets 1-10 and feels like the strings are too high on frets higher than the 10th - should I look at tightening or loosening the truss ?

Oddly - it looks fine, relief seems and measures normal, but how I would normally measure that (capo on first fret and depressing string where neck joins body) doesn't work so well because of the neck thru body and design of the guitar.

Thanks for suggestions

 

[gurtejsingh]

Looks like tightening the truss rod might help as you may have some relief. Tightening reduces relief and loosening adds relief.

Best way to measure relief is to get a straight edge/notched straight edge and keeping it on the fretboard and check for daylight above the frets, but the way I do it is capo on the first fret, and press on the 15th fret and check gap between fret and string on the 7th fret, but there are many ways to do this.

If your bridge is also perfectly flush and level with the body, you could also look at lowering the saddles a bit for the strings.

Hope this helps. Cheers


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[Monster212]

With the Low E string pressed down at the last and first frets (use a capo to press the string down at the first fret and your right hand index finger for the last fret) the gap between the bottom of the string and top of the 8th fret should be .010″.

tighten for less relief, loosen for more relief

or what was said above me..lol. you people are quick on these forums..lol

 

[gurtejsingh]

With the Low E string pressed down at the last and first frets (use a capo to press the string down at the first fret and your right hand index finger for the last fret) the gap between the bottom of the string and top of the 8th fret should be .010″.

tighten for less relief, loosen for more relief

or what was said above me..lol. you people are quick on these forums..lol

Haha Even I was thinking there would at least 5 replies before I submit awesome folks here always willing to help!

I personally prefer a notched straight edge, works very well for checking relief. It's not available in my country so I've ordered it from the states and its on its way. I recently took my JP15 to a luthier and he showed me how much relief my guitar had using it.

I've read that the Stew Mac setup kit is also awesome, but I'll be paying more than its actual cost for shipping it to me!


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[DrKev]

I am drawing a blank on thinking this through and am hoping someone can help me.

If my guitar (Majesty) action seems great on frets say frets 1-10 and feels like the strings are too high on frets higher than the 10th - should I look at tightening or loosening the truss ?

Oddly - it looks fine, relief seems and measures normal, but how I would normally measure that (capo on first fret and depressing string where neck joins body) doesn't work so well because of the neck thru body and design of the guitar.

Thanks for suggestions

Mike has been around this forum for 8 years, he knows how to measure relief. I think his point is that the neck body join is so high up the neck on a majesty that it's hard to know what measurement to take or aim for. Ampeg Dan Armstrong Plexiglass guitars have a similar issue (in fact the neck body join is even higher!). The answer is that it doesn't matter very much.

Strings don't care and cannot know what the rest of the guitar looks like and we kinda don't need to care either. Neck-string geometry is only about what happens strings and frets, not anywhere else, and it's pretty much the same from guitar to guitar. The greatest neck curvature is in the middle where we measure neck relief. The neck is still pretty much flat on the majesty from the 19th fret back to the 22nd. Shifting one of your measurement points back to the 22nd fret might artificially inflate your measurements a little, but only by one, maybe two, thousands of an inch. You can verify that on a different guitar by seeing how the neck relief changes measuring 1st/19th fret and then 1st/22nd fret.

I'm always wary of judging by eye because I know that people are not very good at it. Fret height, string gauge, neck thickness, and lighting all confuse the eye. If the neck relief measures OK and the string height measures OK, then you're fine. Just adjust to taste if necessary. Truss rod or saddles, doesn't matter. The worst that can happen after any adjustment is that something buzzes, in which case, just reverse the last adjustment!

 

[mikeller]

Precisely DrKev - thanks very much!!!!

 

[gurtejsingh]

Mike has been around this forum for 8 years, he knows how to measure relief. I think his point is that the neck body join is so high up the neck on a majesty that it's hard to know what measurement to take or aim for. Ampeg Dan Armstrong Plexiglass guitars have a similar issue (in fact the neck body join is even higher!). The answer is that it doesn't matter very much.

Strings don't care and cannot know what the rest of the guitar looks like and we kinda don't need to care either. Neck-string geometry is only about what happens strings and frets, not anywhere else, and it's pretty much the same from guitar to guitar. The greatest neck curvature is in the middle where we measure neck relief. The neck is still pretty much flat on the majesty from the 19th fret back to the 22nd. Shifting one of your measurement points back to the 22nd fret might artificially inflate your measurements a little, but only by one, maybe two, thousands of an inch. You can verify that on a different guitar by seeing how the neck relief changes measuring 1st/19th fret and then 1st/22nd fret.

I'm always wary of judging by eye because I know that people are not very good at it. Fret height, string gauge, neck thickness, and lighting all confuse the eye. If the neck relief measures OK and the string height measures OK, then you're fine. Just adjust to taste if necessary. Truss rod or saddles, doesn't matter. The worst that can happen after any adjustment is that something buzzes, in which case, just reverse the last adjustment!

I should have seen that he is such a senior member. Apologies for misunderstanding. Thanks DrKev!

 

[PaoloGilberto]

Mike I just received my Majesty a week or so ago.
it has the same "characteristics" ) as you described.
I have the setup kit from stewmac and can make precise measurements and setup
on my neck and your descriptions is perfect - you might have the same thing there - the neck is not straight
on mine for the high E is perfectly straight
for the low E you can make it straight from 1 to 9 frets but from 10 to 24 it will have a slight but measurable and noticeable up bow - around 0.01- 0.02 mm
may seem not to much but trust me it is if you want a low action setup overall - because you will have fret buzz from 1 to 9 frets and higher action from 9 to 24 frets

there is not too much you can do on your own but if you're under warranty you can always send it to MM
I wrote an email to Billy and as usual his service is stellar I really appreciate MM company for this
he recommended to send it back if is under warranty and I have doubts about the neck and they will either fix it (fret leveling) or build a new neck /guitar body

As I live in Europe and guitar was bought by a friend from US , sending it back is expensive and too much of a hassle

the guitar is still playable ...but living in US you might consider the above

 

[mikeller]

Thanks PaoloGilberto - you nailed it - that's exactly it. They feel too close in the lower registers and too high in the upper! I haven't had time yet to compare to my other guitars - but I did run an 18" metal straight edge ruler along the neck and it looks to me like I can see slight relief almost to the 24th fret. Not sure if that is normal or not.

Its not bad - I just feel like I am fighting it when playing when I shouldn't.

Once I have a chance to look at some of my other guitars this weekend - I may send Billy an email. Like you, he has always been tremendously helpful to me too!!!

Cheers!

 

[PaoloGilberto]

mikekeller, as everyone here repeats all the time, we can not tell for sure unless inspecting the guitar ) but it seems exactly the same problem.
I never owned a neck through , but I compared it to a different brand neck through , that neck is fine
also none of my JPs had this
a friend of mine in Scotland bought the guitar at my advice , in the same time ) and same thing with the neck...we can't tell for sure in this cases , but even premium companies like MM could have some 2-5 % of products with potential flaws.

what is great here is the fact that "you should contact CS" really is the best way though might seem unbelievable for the rest of the world (outside US I mean) )

I have nothing but praise for MM CS and Billy , cause even having the fact that I am far away from US he always tried his best and solved my issues in the last 2 years

 

[mikeller]

I have spent some time this morning running the straight edge on 6 or 7 of my MM guitars.

The Majesty seemed fairly consistent with the others in terms of the relief starting around the 3rd fret and diminishing around the 18th fret (depending on 22 or 24 fret necks).

The Majesty seemed to have the most relief though. Oddly, using the 1st fret and a high fret depress and measuring around the 8th fret seemed right, viewing the gap with a straight edge looked a little much, so I have tightened the truss 1/4 or slightly less and we'll see how she does now!

Thanks again all

 

[Monster212]

I Apologize also.. i miss understood what the question was....

 

[mikeller]

I Apologize also.. i miss understood what the question was....

No need - its all good. Maybe I could have been clearer too!!!

Best to you !
Mike

 

[Aaron1433]

Useful and informative thread. Thanks!

 

[ksandvik]

Ask ten guitar players about action levels on fretboards and you get ten different answers about the right height. It's very personal.