valentine string action and neck relief

[manok]

Hello, i just got a EBMM VALENTINE, it's an excellent guitar with a georgious neck, i am very picky with the set up, i like to feel the string gently sustaining, when soft soloing, to strum hard when it s needed, double stop, chunky bass rythm, blues , jazz and rock rythm.. i like that the instrument has the setup it deserve for this kind of price range instrument, it s not a vintage one so i expect it to be better than a old fender or semi hollow gibs.
and i think there is no precise enough indication about how the guitar is set up, in the optimal way i mean, cause you can tell me al the blabla but there is no many different way to set up a proffessionnal guitar when you play, it should be easy, and not buzzing, the compromise is off course the higher it is the less it buzz the harder is to play, but not always.. a to concave neck can buzz on the higher fret,
about the "factory settings'' i don't know any artist that play with a bow from a credit card, exept maybe buddy Guy even if you like some action, there is a minimal distance to respect according to the quality of the neck
so i would really have your advice and comment on the question, to have the advice of a tech that set up these guitar for the best of what they can offer..

 

[DrKev]

Hello Manok! Welcome to the forum and congratulations on a great guitar!

When I do a setup for my clients or students, I aim for a neck relief of 0.2 mm to 0.3 mm (0.008" to 0.012"). 0.4 mm would be too much. A credit card is 0.76mm thick, which is more than three times too much! However, a standard *business card* is about 0.35 mm thick and so is a useful guide for "this is just too much".

My standard setup is 0.2 mm neck relief, 1.75 mm action on the high E string, 2.0 mm on the low E string. The way I play, I get a little buzz but never enough to bother when I'm actually playing music.

 

[manok]

thank you, for your reply Dr! that help me a lot, i was scared not to be clear in my demand
do you fret the first and the neck junction to measure or the 2d and the 12th like they advice?
you like high strings no? 1,75 it's quiet a bit? but it at least sound fuller)
thanks again

 

[manok]

i see that you are French! moi aussi ha!LOL

 

[DrKev]

Salut Manok!

Non, je viens de Irlande, mais à Paris depuis 20 ans.

Yes, I capo 1st, fret 17th, measure at 7th fret.

No, 1.75 mm on the high E string (12th fret) is not very high. It's very similar to what most manufacturers recommend (remember the Americans are converting from inches, so 4/64 = 1.6 mm, 5/64 = 2.0 mm). Those are the numbers that will work well for "most people".

As two non-standard examples, John Petrucci willing accepts some fret buzz at his low action of 1.2 mm - 1.6 mm on the E-string. Eric Johnson likes 2.0 mm across all his strings.

Start from basic specs (the Fender Stratocaster setup guide is a good resource for learning and a great set of guide measurements). Then adjust to your liking. Remember how much buzz you get depends on string height, neck relief, tuning/string tension, and how the player themselves touch the strings, and how much buzz there ear is sensitive to. there is no single correct answer.

 

[manok]

thank s a lot Doc your the best!!! i think my tools like the strings action rulers are not very precise,
tell me do you have rolled the edge of the compensated nut (if you have also this completly straight compensated nut on yours with sharp edges) or did you rolled the edges like on every proper Nut??
i ts a bit disturbing while playing jazz chords (standing) at the first case, i mean not so bad but not comfy, i don t know why they did that it make no sense!!
other than that it's an amazing instrument playwise and sound wise )

 

[beej]

I don't believe I've ever heard anyone complain that the nut is sharp. Certainly not an issue for me.

 

[manok]

Not sharp but unusual...

 

[GWDavis28]

Not sharp but unusual...

That's a compensated nut, they changed over from a straight nut years ago.

From Google: "A compensated nut on your guitar or bass moves the 'take-off' point for the string back or forwards in an effort to improve overall tuning consistency. It's essentially the same process as for the bridge. View full size. Music Man compensated nuts at back."

Guitar Hardware School: Nuts II - Compensated Nuts — Haze Guitars

Glenn |B)

 

[manok]

Yes of course. I don’t express myself very well))
You can make a compensated nut that s perfect and it s a good thing. And very old by the way, every manufacturer should put that on they re axe but you can make one with round edge ) not square like a table corner, you see what I mean ?

 

[GWDavis28]

Yes of course. I don’t express myself very well))
You can make a compensated nut that s perfect and it s a good thing. And very old by the way, every manufacturer should put that on they re axe but you can make one with round edge ) not square like a table corner, you see what I mean ?

Anything is possible, but you run the risk of damaging the nut I would think. It this something that just bothers you? I'm sure it could be sanded/filed some what if you felt the need. Can't say I've heard anyone post about it or wanting to tweak/mod it like that.

Glenn |B)

 

[DrKev]

I know exactly what he means. Many luthiers finish their nuts but reducing the height above the strings to zero and rounding the edges. No performance bonus but certainly looks nice and yes, feels nice. If there is a hard egde on it I feel it sometimes.

My Cutlass nut looked like Manoks, and yes, I wrapped the fingerboard and headstock in masking tape under the and went at slowly with a flat needle file and finished with 400 grit wet and dry abrasive paper, polish with the back paper side of the abrasive paper. I did it with the strings on before a string change. It means you may ruin a string or two but you're about to string change so who cares.

 

[GWDavis28]

DrKev, so you just basically broke off the sharps edges at the back on the nut, hadn't thought . Thanx for the info.

Glenn |B)

 

[manok]

Ha voilà ).
We like curves and smooth edges!!!
The neck is so smooth, maybe i m too much used to oldies,
I thought about doing it exactly like Doc but I don t want it to look diy ) ! If i was in Paris I would come to you!
I have a question Doc Rev, there are little scratches on some frets wich I can feel under the strings while i’m Doing vibtato,
I want to polish the frets and to erase those superficial scratches as it S steel a stell wool won t maybe be enough? I can do it with a sandpaper like 600? With the hand of course I don’t want to level the fret but just want to make it glassy and shiny again. What’s you advice?

 

[threeminutesboy]

Not sharp but unusual...

That’s quite surprising to me as well and this shouldn’t be find on a guitar of this price.

Just wondering if it’s was a mistake or a Production change. Doesn’t affect the sound I agree but look unfinished.

Where are you based manok?

 

[manok]

i think it's just a designed purpose, it looks square and modern, and there necessarily a reason for it, and i don't argue with that it's well done, evrerybody want to be identify doing something different and it's a respectable goal, opposed to all this suhr xotic etc.. that does everything like fender aside the head!!
i'm in south est of FRANCE

 

[loocnmad]

I checked mine and it's definitely more pronounced on the Valentine than it is on the Cutlass or ASS. Maybe it has something to do with the stock 11's it comes with.

 

[manok]

THE BRIDGE cover is such a good idea, they should have do the same with the nut
an idea i mean..not a cover LOL