Question Vintage Tremolo vs. Hard Tail - SIgnificant Tone Difference???

[Ventanaman]

Hi Everyone,

I am on the verge of ordering my 2nd EBMM - an Axis Super Sport with a piezo PU, but I an torn between the vintage tremolo and the hard tail. I am not going to be able to play both (no one has them in stock locally), so I need some input from the gurus here.

I would honestly rather have the flexibility of the trem. I don't need it for deep dives (my Axis has a Floyd), but I also don't want to significantly sacrifice tone or sustain.

Is there really much difference between the two?

 

[Roubster]

If you are a trem kind of guy than go for the vintage trem. There is no sacrifice in tone nor sustain. I have a Silo Special with piezo and trem and I even have it set-up to float slightly (like the LUKE), and the tone is to die for. I absolutely love this guitar, and the tone is great as well as the sustain. Should work equally as well with the Axis SS. Some people will probably say that the hardtail will have more resonance or what not, but thats just preference I guess. Petrucci has the piezo on a fully floating bridge and has insane tone, so there you go .

 

[Ventanaman]

Thanks for the input - I appreciate it. I just wanted some experienced opinions on the matter. I set my trems up for dive only/non-floating anyway.

 

[threeminutesboy]

Difficult choice in my opinion...

I have discovered EBMM hardtail guitars with my EVH I absolutely love it the feel is really different from the EVH with floyd

Now I have 3 EBMM hardtails and 2 with Trem. it's hard to decide which one I love the most, one thing is sure is that your playing change a bit if you use hardtail or trem. Playing Wicked game from Chris Isaac would be difficult with a hardtail but this gives a nice work to re-interprete things

my 2 giging guitars are with Hardtail (ASS with Piezo and Albert MM90) sometimes I take only the ASS with Piezo as you can play almost any style with that guitar

A trem guitar can always be converted to hardtail if you block the trem, the opposite is impossible

now the choice is yours

 

[Dante]

and i own 3 petruccis and am about to put 2 of them up for sale.
my Y2D owns them in tone.
hardtail is always best.

 

[paranoid70]

I perfer hardtail because I really just don't use the trem that often. If you use trem, buy one that has it. I don't find a noticeable difference in tone.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I have a hardtail sss al and a trem sss al
-I feel that the Hardtail guitar has some "natural compression" - it is a lot lighter than my trem al

 

[Astrofreq]

I went with hardtail because a non-recessed trem is sort of useless to me.

 

[ScoobySteve]

Hardtail. I'm just more used to it, and I feel that it gives more bite on the pick attack.

I think the tension on the trem and the hardtail will be the big difference. Bends feel much different for me on a hardtail as opposed to a trem, not so much like a hardtail vs. a floater but you know what i mean.

In the end, it all boils down to if you use the trem often or not. Best option is to have one of each, but if I HAD to have one, I'd go with hardtail. Tuning on the fly is always a plus.

 

[fbecir]

Steve Morse prefers hardtail guitars. He will just use his Floyd Rose guitars for some specific songs where he needs to do some whammy tricks. Otherwise, he uses his hardtail guitars.
In some interview, he explains that the hardtail bridge is more responsive.

 

[Colin]

put me down for hardtail

 

[ScoobySteve]

Steve Morse prefers hardtail guitars. He will just use his Floyd Rose guitars for some specific songs where he needs to do some whammy tricks. Otherwise, he uses his hardtail guitars.
In some interview, he explains that the hardtail bridge is more responsive.

I agree with this assessment. Only use the tremolo if you need it. If trem manipulation is a heavy part of your sound and technique, by all means go vintage trem! However, if you rarely use it, and you're trying to rationalize the whole "having my options" mentality you should probably go hardtail.

I'm not a rocket scientist, nor am I an expert with intonation, guitar set up, and guitar construction theories, but common logic suggests that fewer moving/operational parts = more simplicity = (in this case) greater tuning stability and playing response.

Just my .02, nothing more.

 

[Heeboja]

I'm a trem guy myself, but my 7 string has a TOM bridge in it. There's a big difference in sound of the vibrato if you use trem or just your fingers. That's why I like the tremolo. I don't do those crazy whammy tricks. Just to spice up my leads á la petrucci. I've found that most of the sound comes from the saddles. Shouldn't be much of a difference. But if you don't use the trem then why bother getting a guitar with one. You'll just end up blocking it.

 

[spkirby]

I used to swear by trem guitars, had them on all my EBMM's, I couldnt see the point of a hardtail...then I tried a hardtail EBMM and (to me) they play & feel so much better...now I have more hardtails than trems!

 

[beej]

Yeah, I've kind of gone that route too over the years. Use to have floyds, then went EBMMs with the vintage trem. Then got to love the hardtails, now that's pretty much all I have. Always thought I should have a trem just in case, but really I never used it and I like the sound/feel of the hardtails better.

 

[nobozos]

I'll take a stab at it.

Personally, I'm a Floyd guy. I'm not advocating one over the other, but I'm only making an attempt to explain the cause of any perceived tone difference between the two.

My understanding of tone as it relates to hardware on an electric guitar is based on transferrence of resonance between the strings an the wood. If we accept the premise that tone is directly related to how well the bridge transfers the string vibration to the wood, and how well the wood's resonance is transferred back to the strings, it gives us a pretty good stepping-off point for the discussion.

There are all kinds of schools of thought on stop-tail, fixed bridge, and string through configurations, and how they manipulate resonance. The arguement against trems that I'm familiar with, is that they kill resonance because the contact with the body is reduced to two pivot points (usually).

Here's my take on it.
I believe the largest contributing factor to a perceived lack of tone or resonance on a trem guitar isn't related to the hardware contact, but the large amount of wood that has to be removed from the body to accomadate the trem. This wood is removed directly under the area where the string vibrations are transferred to the body. It would stand to reason that if you have less mass of the resonating medium in that specific area of the guitar, you would loose some resonance, and tone. Even on a guitar that has a trem that rests on the body, which increases the bridge contact with the top of the guitar, you are still missing that mass under the bridge.

As far as fixed bridge guitars go, you would have the advantage of the additonal wood. The vibrating legnth of the string stops at the bridge saddle. This makes the way that the bridge saddles are mounted to the body important for tone and resonance. One could argue that a larger surface area in contact with the body would transfer the string vibrations better. A stop tail bridge with larger mounting bolts, or a fixed bridge with a larger surface area would transfer the vibrations more efficiently. This, in combination with the additional body mass would help to explain the perceived additional tone and sustain on this type of guitar.

Some claim that a string through the body configuration does even better. I don't know if I would agree with that. Since the vibrating legnth of the string ends at the saddle, it would seem that the most important component for transferring that vibration would be what is transferring that vibration to the body. Once you get behind the bridge saddles, the string isn't vibrating anymore, so it seems that how the ball end is secured to the body is relatively unimportant.

The quality of the hardware is important too. If you are using pot-metal bridges on a fixed bridge guitar, it probably won't transfer the resonance as well as a good quality brass bridge.

Don't forget, the other end of the string terminates at the nut, so the neck material, nut, contact of the neck with the body, and choice of woods will also contribute significantly to the perceived tone and resonance of the guitar.

That's just my opinion, I could be totally wrong.

 

[GuitarHack]

i have a hardtail sss al and a trem sss al
-i feel that the hardtail guitar has some "natural compression" - it is a lot lighter than my trem al

+1

 

[Spudmurphy]

^
It's nice since I fitted the KTS titanium saddles too

 

[straycat113]

I prefer a stoptail and all my guitars with trems are set to only dive. The only guitar I have that floats is my JP because of the way they designed the bridge that you can rest your hand on it without without making the notes go sharp or flat, by far my favorite trem system.

 

[Ventanaman]

Once again, thanks for the input. I really value and respect the opinions you all have.