Vintage Tuner Design

[Josh3184]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker, first time post. I've owned a few MM basses over the years and had a question for our resident MM historians!

I've managed to acquire a 1979 Stingray. The only issue with it is that the E tuner has been replaced with a Hipshot some time in its past. In looking for a replacement from the same era, I thought I'd managed to find one. The only thing is, the threads of the tuning peg are of slightly different length, but I think they're the same ratio. Does anyone know when this change in design occurred and which version is the older one? Below are some pictures to show what I mean:

Original one on bass:
http://i.imgur.com/Wm3x8dd.jpg

Similar era one with shorter thread:
http://i.imgur.com/TFFwUXK.jpg

Direct comparison:
http://i.imgur.com/OqF591b.jpg

Any help is greatly appreciated! Apologies in advance if this has been covered elsewhere; I've been searching for more info and haven't found anything so though I'd ask here.

EDIT: Here's a crappy paint drawing of what I mean:
http://i.imgur.com/WfkBpDD.png

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

I don't think there's any change in the design. It just depends on the position of rotation. If you rotate the new one further and view from the same angle, more "threads" should become visible. But I'll check my '79 tonight and repost if I'm wrong.

 

[Josh3184]

I thought that originally but there's no way to rotate the peg to get it to show the same as the ones on the bass- my pictures probably aren't the clearest so I apologise for that!. It's like the thread on the replacement is about 10-15mm shorter on both sides. The ones on the bass go almost to the end of the available space on the shaft but the other one leaves a lot more room.

 

[diptixon]

I can check my '79 as well...

 

[Josh3184]

Thanks that'd be great! Easiest way to tell which of the two is to find a tuner (or move it round) so that both of the ends of the thread are displaying.
On the ones on my bass they both overlap by the width of the shaft, on the replacement I bought they both only just appear on both sides. I've made a crappy picture to show what i mean: http://i.imgur.com/8o43rpW.png

 

[KevinM]

If the replacement tuner fits and works fine the gear ratio won't matter since the gear and worm are matched on the replacement tuner. Your replacement looks closer to original than the Hipshot.

 

[Josh3184]

Thanks for the help so far guys! I posted a reply earlier but it's not got through the mod approval stage yet so I've edited my original post. There's now a (rubbish) paint drawing of the issue at the bottom so please see the edit in my original post!

It's not a massive problem for me- I'm still happy using the replacement- I was just wondering if this was a known design change, when it was made, and if anyone else had encountered it.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

...I've made a crappy picture to show what i mean: http://i.imgur.com/8o43rpW.png

Interesting! I've never noticed it before.

 

[KevinM]

Can you turn the worm replacement tuner so the end of the gear slot is showing like the originals and take another comparison pic?
As long as everything fits correctly I think the difference would only be aesthetics.
As long as you're okay with a slightly different tuner the bass should play just as good

 

[Josh3184]

Sure thing Kevin, I should probably have done that to start off with! Here's a link:
http://i.imgur.com/7zV5v5B.png

It's from another one from the set from the other side but it has the same thing. The paint picture was exaggerated slightly but if you compare the ends of the thread to this pic:
http://i.imgur.com/Wm3x8dd.jpg

You can see that the threads on the replacement only just meet each other and the ones on the bass overlap.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

If there is a difference then I thought it may have been an early EB design so I checked my 1989 Ray. I can't see any difference between the 79 and 89.

 

[Josh3184]

Cheers for having a look Rod! So you're thinking maybe it's a pre-79 thing then?

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

This???

 

[Josh3184]

That d tuner at the top of the headstock certainly looks like the replacement one I've got as you can see the thread only just overlaps as it comes round the barrel of the shaft. Am I right in thinking that's your 79?
Also I notice it's Gav not rod, my apologies.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

"Rod" is just a Forum name

The above is a Jan 1977 headstock.

I checked from 1976 to 1979. Your replacement appears to be the design used from 1976 through to late 1978 (about when the serial moved from the neck plate to the bridge). Mind you, I'm only looking at pics and not actual instruments.

 

[Josh3184]

I think you've nailed it to be honest Gav! Great bit of detective work there! Looks like they elongated the thread slightly when they made that serial change then- to throw a spanner in the works my 79 bass still has the serial on the neckplate but I'd imagine there'd be a bit of overlap so I'm not too surprised it got new(er) style tuners with an old(er) style serial.

As we've noted it doesn't affect playability so it's not an issue for from that point of view, I was just slightly worried that I'd got a very elaborate forgery/copy or something similar- I'm glad that you've found examples on an early Ray!

Thanks for the help everyone. For all the Stingray historians out there you've now got another thing to look at when dating a bass I guess! Shorter thread is 78 or earlier, longer thread was used mid 79 and later.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

IMO, if you have the serial on the neck plate then you have a 1978 Bass, albeit late 78, because the serials moved to the bridge in late 1978. And your vintage would be consistent with you having the newer tuners...my Bass (which I bought new) has a Jan 1979 neck with a 1978 body and I have the newer tuners.

 

[Josh3184]

Brilliant, I'm always up for hearing it's older than I thought it was! Thanks again for your help Gav, I've come out of this thread with two big bits of useful info now.