Hendog
Well-known member
I need a volume pedal.
How does one decided which one with so many options?
How does one decided which one with so many options?
- Thread starter Hendog
- Start date
beej
Moderator
Well, start with the basics.
- Mono or stereo?
- Active electronics (or after a buffered pedal) or passive?
- Size? Large or small
I'm a big fan of the EB VP, Jr. Small size, great feel, inexpensive. I've got a few of them.
- Mono or stereo?
- Active electronics (or after a buffered pedal) or passive?
- Size? Large or small
I'm a big fan of the EB VP, Jr. Small size, great feel, inexpensive. I've got a few of them.
Hendog
Well-known member
See, thats the problem...
Mono or Stereo? I have no idea. What is that? For running 2 amps? I would like that option, but wouldn't I do that out of my stereo delay pedals?
Active electronics? Not sure if I have any "buffered pedals". And I would like to have the option to run a EMG equipped guitar if I want.
Size? Doesn't matter too much, but not too big.
Headstock
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2007
- Messages
- 1,869
My name is Headstock and I approve this question. I too need a Volume pedal...
I have guitars with both active and passive pickups. I am looking at the VIP JR.
Do I need one for each type?
Can these also be used as Expression pedals for an Line 6 M13 ?
I have guitars with both active and passive pickups. I am looking at the VIP JR.
Do I need one for each type?
Can these also be used as Expression pedals for an Line 6 M13 ?
bkrumme
Well-known member
Here's what I do:
Get the stereo pedal. Even if you don't use it stereo, you will have it around in case you need stereo in the future. It's a little more money, but worth it.
A buffered pedal is anything that isn't true bypass...and technically anything which is turned on even if it is true bypass.
You could always get a buffer to go between your guitar and the volume pedal...then it's 25k all the way.
Get the stereo pedal. Even if you don't use it stereo, you will have it around in case you need stereo in the future. It's a little more money, but worth it.
A buffered pedal is anything that isn't true bypass...and technically anything which is turned on even if it is true bypass.
You could always get a buffer to go between your guitar and the volume pedal...then it's 25k all the way.
ScoobySteve
Well-known member
I use the 250k Mono VP JR. I don't use stereo, so it was a practical investment for me.
Exact same size as the EB Wah, and just so beautiful for those violin like swells.
Exact same size as the EB Wah, and just so beautiful for those violin like swells.
beej
Moderator
Other than as an expression pedal, you basically have two choices. Either in front of the amp/distortion pedals, or in the loop/after gainy pedals.
I prefer the VP in the loop. Either for controlling overall volume, or as a blend for my delay/verb (in a parallel loop). For me it's easier to use my guitar's volume to clean up, the VP seems redundant for that purpose. Given that, I use the 25k (low impedance) version. I know I'm not going to use it right after my guitar.
If you want it right after the guitar, get the 250k version. But I think the 25k is probably a little more versatile. If you end up wanting it to control your guitar's output, just stick it after a buffered pedal, like a boss tuner or something. It also won't load your signal that way, so you won't lose any highs from your guitar.
Just my approach, there are many ways to go. If you're in doubt, by one, experiment with it and see how you like it. It's not a big purchase.
(I just bought another 25k VP Jr the other day. Removed the tuner jack, wired it up with a stereo TRS jack. I'm using it to run a single stereo cable back to my little amp's FX loop for overall volume.)
I prefer the VP in the loop. Either for controlling overall volume, or as a blend for my delay/verb (in a parallel loop). For me it's easier to use my guitar's volume to clean up, the VP seems redundant for that purpose. Given that, I use the 25k (low impedance) version. I know I'm not going to use it right after my guitar.
If you want it right after the guitar, get the 250k version. But I think the 25k is probably a little more versatile. If you end up wanting it to control your guitar's output, just stick it after a buffered pedal, like a boss tuner or something. It also won't load your signal that way, so you won't lose any highs from your guitar.
Just my approach, there are many ways to go. If you're in doubt, by one, experiment with it and see how you like it. It's not a big purchase.
(I just bought another 25k VP Jr the other day. Removed the tuner jack, wired it up with a stereo TRS jack. I'm using it to run a single stereo cable back to my little amp's FX loop for overall volume.)
MusicManJP6
Well-known member
I use the 250k Mono VP JR. I don't use stereo, so it was a practical investment for me.
Exact same size as the EB Wah, and just so beautiful for those violin like swells.
Do you use yours in the loop or in front? I think my 250k VP Jr sounds fine in the loop, so I bet the 25k version sounds awesome! The EB Wah looks great next to it like you said.
ScoobySteve
Well-known member
I use my VP as the very FIRST part of the chain. Yes, I know very unorthodox.
My chain is VP JR - {Tuner out to a Korg Pitch Black} - [VP JR Out]- To either a Keeley BD2-PHAT or Fuzz Head (whichever I'm feeling like) - to Keeley Compressor - to Keeley TS9+ - to EB WAH - to AMP.
FX Chain has Boss DD-3 Delay - Analogman Chorus - Analogman dual Analog Delay
I LOVE my set up.
Once I have the money to do a 2x amp set up (one clean, one dirty) the sophistication of my set up will rise!
But the more and more I edit my pedal board I realize, that the VP JR and the EB Wah are the cornerstones. I love them, plus they look nice and discrete on my Pedalboard, which I like!
My chain is VP JR - {Tuner out to a Korg Pitch Black} - [VP JR Out]- To either a Keeley BD2-PHAT or Fuzz Head (whichever I'm feeling like) - to Keeley Compressor - to Keeley TS9+ - to EB WAH - to AMP.
FX Chain has Boss DD-3 Delay - Analogman Chorus - Analogman dual Analog Delay
I LOVE my set up.
Once I have the money to do a 2x amp set up (one clean, one dirty) the sophistication of my set up will rise!
But the more and more I edit my pedal board I realize, that the VP JR and the EB Wah are the cornerstones. I love them, plus they look nice and discrete on my Pedalboard, which I like!
MusicManJP6
Well-known member
I've heard using the tuner out sucks tone because the signal is split, goes to the tuner, and then doesn't go anywhere from there. Thoughts?
bkrumme
Well-known member
How could something that isn't in your signal chain suck tone? I think that's just more Internet BS. Besides, the VP Jr. is passive. Even though it splits the signal, the full signal stays intact going both directions.
colinboy
Well-known member
Sorry for the high jack guys,i too want to get a stereo volume pan pedal to integrate my piezo on JP into my rig but wouldnt a splitter box do the same thing?
Im not upto date with all the technical stuff like active and passive and true bypass,
can someone please explain these terms to me,perhaps jason(beej) the tech himself?
Im not upto date with all the technical stuff like active and passive and true bypass,
can someone please explain these terms to me,perhaps jason(beej) the tech himself?
beej
Moderator
Ok ... the quick answer is your guitar is an electrical circuit. It's electrically affected by inductance (the coils of your pickups), capacitance (your guitar's coaxial cable) and resistance (the wire in your pickups and pots that the electrons have to travel through).
Electrically, your guitar sounds the way it does b/c of the values of these components (it's just math). Change one and you change the sound. Make your pickups hotter- you get more inductance and you narrow the frequency windows of your p'ups. You get more mids and less highs & lows. Add a longer cable- you add capacitance and it's like using your tone control, you roll off highs. Add more resistance and you shift the "resonant frequency" upward, brightening your signal. This last one is where there's often confusion.
When you add resistance in-line ("series"), you sum the resistances. When you add them across each other ("parallel"), you lower the overall resistance (there's an easy formula).
Adding pots? That's in parallel- one end goes to ground, the other end goes to your signal. If you have two 500k pots (vol and tone), the total resistance is going to be 250k. So if you remove one pot, it becomes 500k your pickups see, and you get the effect of brightening your sound. (You can do a ton to change your sound with $0.25 worth of resistors and capacitors.)
Ok, so what's "tone suck"?
"Tone suck" is usually a loss of high end. It can be extra capacitance (long cable) that rolls of highs, or a lowering of resistance which leads to a downward frequency shift from your guitar. Also less high end.
So what's the deal with the volume pedal and tuner out?
Well, your guitar has to plug into something. Normally that's an amp or pedal with a high resistance (usually 1 Meg ohm). But when you use the "tuner out", you're plugging into your amp/pedal AND whatever the tuner out is plugged in to. The load of that tuner is in parallel to the load of your amp. Again, thanks to adding resistances in parallel, you end up losing some high end from your guitar.
So it's not that your signal is "being split", it's that your signal is being loaded from several sources.
So what do you do about it?
Some people like this effect. Jimi Hendrix used to use two cords- a short one for recording clean sounds and a long one to make his strat more midrangey, which led to better distorted sounds. Distorted guitars are all about the mids- you don't really want a lot of high end. Clean guitars (think Dire Straits) ... you need those highs to "quack". So it's not always a bad thing. Use your ears and see what you like.
If it bothers you, the best thing to do is use a buffer, a device with a high input resistance (1 Meg or so) and a low output resistance. Then your guitar's signal is effectively preserved and your guitar's circuit (pickups, pots, cable) is electrically isolated from the load of devices further downstream.
High impedance, low impedance
I've been saying "resistance" "capacitance", etc. but technically it's all "impedance". Impedance represents the relationship between voltage and current which a device is capable of accepting or delivering. For our purposes, it's just math.
In the guitar world, a "high impedance" circuit is usually all passive components, i.e. regular pickups, pots, etc. Signals from these passive, high-impedance circuits are easily effected by capacitance from long guitar cords and other loads further down the signal path.
Whereas active circuits (powered pickups like EMGs, preamplifier circuits like in your guitar pedals, etc.) are generally "low impedance". The math says that they're not really affected by long cable lengths, etc.
Practical example
Take a passive guitar and plug it in to an amp set clean with a 4 foot cable. Then try a 50 foot cable. You'll hear a huge difference. The long cable will roll-off a ton of high end.
Try that same thing with your Luke with its EMGs. You won't notice the high end loss. Those pickups are active, there's an onboard preamplifier circuit.
Now go back to your first guitar. With a short cable, plug it into a buffer (a dedicated buffer like the Axess BS-2, or any boss pedal, even when they're off). Try the short cable/long cable thing again. Like with the Luke, you won't notice much effect from cable length.
Bottom line: with an active signal you're much less likely to notice tonal changes from signal loading. Long cables, using the tuner out from your volume pedal, etc.
Remember, there's no right way to do things. Some guys hate buffers, some love them. Always use your ears when you're making decisions about your rig rather than listening to what "some guy on the internet" says. (Even if that guy is me )
Hope that helps a bit.
Electrically, your guitar sounds the way it does b/c of the values of these components (it's just math). Change one and you change the sound. Make your pickups hotter- you get more inductance and you narrow the frequency windows of your p'ups. You get more mids and less highs & lows. Add a longer cable- you add capacitance and it's like using your tone control, you roll off highs. Add more resistance and you shift the "resonant frequency" upward, brightening your signal. This last one is where there's often confusion.
When you add resistance in-line ("series"), you sum the resistances. When you add them across each other ("parallel"), you lower the overall resistance (there's an easy formula).
Adding pots? That's in parallel- one end goes to ground, the other end goes to your signal. If you have two 500k pots (vol and tone), the total resistance is going to be 250k. So if you remove one pot, it becomes 500k your pickups see, and you get the effect of brightening your sound. (You can do a ton to change your sound with $0.25 worth of resistors and capacitors.)
Ok, so what's "tone suck"?
"Tone suck" is usually a loss of high end. It can be extra capacitance (long cable) that rolls of highs, or a lowering of resistance which leads to a downward frequency shift from your guitar. Also less high end.
So what's the deal with the volume pedal and tuner out?
Well, your guitar has to plug into something. Normally that's an amp or pedal with a high resistance (usually 1 Meg ohm). But when you use the "tuner out", you're plugging into your amp/pedal AND whatever the tuner out is plugged in to. The load of that tuner is in parallel to the load of your amp. Again, thanks to adding resistances in parallel, you end up losing some high end from your guitar.
So it's not that your signal is "being split", it's that your signal is being loaded from several sources.
So what do you do about it?
Some people like this effect. Jimi Hendrix used to use two cords- a short one for recording clean sounds and a long one to make his strat more midrangey, which led to better distorted sounds. Distorted guitars are all about the mids- you don't really want a lot of high end. Clean guitars (think Dire Straits) ... you need those highs to "quack". So it's not always a bad thing. Use your ears and see what you like.
If it bothers you, the best thing to do is use a buffer, a device with a high input resistance (1 Meg or so) and a low output resistance. Then your guitar's signal is effectively preserved and your guitar's circuit (pickups, pots, cable) is electrically isolated from the load of devices further downstream.
High impedance, low impedance
I've been saying "resistance" "capacitance", etc. but technically it's all "impedance". Impedance represents the relationship between voltage and current which a device is capable of accepting or delivering. For our purposes, it's just math.
In the guitar world, a "high impedance" circuit is usually all passive components, i.e. regular pickups, pots, etc. Signals from these passive, high-impedance circuits are easily effected by capacitance from long guitar cords and other loads further down the signal path.
Whereas active circuits (powered pickups like EMGs, preamplifier circuits like in your guitar pedals, etc.) are generally "low impedance". The math says that they're not really affected by long cable lengths, etc.
Practical example
Take a passive guitar and plug it in to an amp set clean with a 4 foot cable. Then try a 50 foot cable. You'll hear a huge difference. The long cable will roll-off a ton of high end.
Try that same thing with your Luke with its EMGs. You won't notice the high end loss. Those pickups are active, there's an onboard preamplifier circuit.
Now go back to your first guitar. With a short cable, plug it into a buffer (a dedicated buffer like the Axess BS-2, or any boss pedal, even when they're off). Try the short cable/long cable thing again. Like with the Luke, you won't notice much effect from cable length.
Bottom line: with an active signal you're much less likely to notice tonal changes from signal loading. Long cables, using the tuner out from your volume pedal, etc.
Remember, there's no right way to do things. Some guys hate buffers, some love them. Always use your ears when you're making decisions about your rig rather than listening to what "some guy on the internet" says. (Even if that guy is me
)Hope that helps a bit.
beej
Moderator
Damn ... I tried to make that short. It comes out long winded every time I get into it.
ScoobySteve
Well-known member
My rule of thumb is always to make sure you have 1 buffered pedal on your board.
Then everything else can be true-bypass. WIth long cables and passive instruments, true-bypass can actually hurt you.
I personally don't mind using the tuner out. It doesn't suck that much tone (at all IMO) on any dirty channel. And for cleans, I just adjust the EQ on the amp to compensate.
To me pedals, including volume pedals, are a luxury, they're not necessities. And with any luxury or induction into a signal chain, they come with their costs. A little tone (and I do mean a little) off your top end, isn't a bad compromise for the use of a VP, especially when you use it as much as I do.
Then everything else can be true-bypass. WIth long cables and passive instruments, true-bypass can actually hurt you.
I personally don't mind using the tuner out. It doesn't suck that much tone (at all IMO) on any dirty channel. And for cleans, I just adjust the EQ on the amp to compensate.
To me pedals, including volume pedals, are a luxury, they're not necessities. And with any luxury or induction into a signal chain, they come with their costs. A little tone (and I do mean a little) off your top end, isn't a bad compromise for the use of a VP, especially when you use it as much as I do.
MusicManJP6
Well-known member
Beej, that was one helluva good post man! Thanks for the info.
EDIT: After some thought (while I couldn't sleep last night) I am wondering if tone is altered if the tuner out is not used..... Thoughts?
EDIT: After some thought (while I couldn't sleep last night) I am wondering if tone is altered if the tuner out is not used..... Thoughts?
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