Waiting to be clubbed :(

[Dakine]

OK,
just had to throw this out there as reading TOO much right now and wanna see EB DOMINATE the world

Firstly let me apologise. I am NOT trying to tell anyone how to do their job or run their bussiness, I am merely making some observations that concern me as I CARE about a product.

Ok, the cracking issue on JP's and others. I understand the California rules on pollution/chemicals etc. which limits the ability to use whatever you want. But surely, if a paint is deemed too brittle "eggshell" it can be investigated to maybe change it's chemical composition to make more elastic? I fully understand wood "breathes" and therefore moves. Some woods more than others, but some paint is more forgiving than others too.
Now this brings me to my second point. If indeed the case (for transportation) is the cause of the paint issue then whay not fix that. I am fully aware costing/contracts/deadlines/availabilty etc. are all concerns here. I also feel (IMO) the SKB cases are the biggest shortfall in the EB product range. I HATE the SKB case. In fact I think it's CR*P! Again, logistics and costing play a major part and many cases fall short of being "good" hard cases to protect instruments. But some are much better than others.
Last point, distribution. I am not so bothered about worldwide pricing. Of course people now adays can check prices easily with the internet. And human nature being what it is they will feel slightly "wronged" having to pay more in one place than another. The real issue I feel is the availability of product to see/try. To expect someone to pay over $1,000 in hard earned money without seeing the product is amazing, even more gratifying for EB that so many do this on "reputation". Why are overseas distributers/stockists allowed to advertise themsleves as such without stocking product?

Again, NOT trying to get BigPoppa to send Jon and his hyperdermic weilding maniac puppy after me. Just it is hurting my heart to see such a fine,family orientated company get ANY complaints.
The loyalty here is more than I have ever seen! the customer service is better than any I have witnessed apart from USAA. The product is 99.9% PERFECT.

I am merely wondering what steps, if any, are being taken to address the .01%

I have a 5 year engineering apprentiship, my family owned/ran their own bussiness for over 50 years, as a testament of me not just spouting off (I have some quals. to speak here I believe). My folks only recently sold their bussiness to retire (I am in TX so the chain stopped as it where) and got the price they did for it from "goodwill", that is customer loyalty.

If this is taken as just a negative post then I am afraid you have read it wrongly.
I personally own two EB guitars and am currently talking to Mr.DuBaldo to add my third next week. So cannot be said I am not an EB addict myself. But feeling as strongly as I do about the EB family and product I am personally concerned when issues arise that trouble people enough to post with a complaint.

OK, done now

I fully expect to get flamed now but so be it.

If caring about someone/some company who you don't personally know but feel so strongly about is a flame worthy crime then go ahead.

Nick

 

[Big Poppa]

Why would I flame? The sad part is that unfortunately you know just enough to be dangerous and not enough to understand.

Bringing up the JP crack issue is crack. Period. We solved that problem long ago and solved it with SKB, materials, and design I also notice that you don't own a JP but our past solved problems brings you heartache even today.

Read my post on why there isnt more distribution. Supply and demand. How big should we be? How big can we be? How big can we be and still deliver quality? Should we stop adding products?

Sit down with all of your families experience and tell me how it is possible to make more guitars and retain the qualtiy and integrity. We cannot be all things to all people.
We can continue to try to deliver to the market new and fresh tools for artists.

 

[koogie2k]

No need for me to flame here.

I am more than positive that EBMM knows of problems that may/can exist and do what they can to fix them.

The stress crack issue is one that has been played out.....I do know that EBMM will fix the issue. It has been said here before. No need for me to rehash that.

As for the cases, I personally have not had a problem, so I cannot comment on that.

As for distribution, it is impossible for EBMM to set a standard worldwide price. How can they? They do not control the economics of any country. That is simply the way it is. Then, the dealer can ask whatever price he/she wants. That cannot be controlled either. EBMM only puts an MSRP (key word - suggested) and it is up to the dealer to sell the guitar/bass at a price they deem.

The other is cost. Out of all the spectacular guitars and basses that leave the factory, I am fairly confident that 99% of them don't have any issues. So, for EBMM to re-tool their entire factory to address 1% is not cost effective. But, I am no expert on the subject, so hopefully someone will educate me on that.

This is only a suggestion, so don't take it as a slight towards you personally, maybe you should have sent this via e-mail instead of posting it on a public forum. My only reason for saying that is....it will become a "What about my problem thread" as people tend to jump in to address their particular problem and it gets to be troublesome and does not give the Customer Service Dept. (YOU GUYS ROCK BY THE WAY) a chance to do what they get paid to do.

My 2 pennies.

 

[Dakine]

Sir
if I have missed somthing I apologise.
I read only this morning another crack thread.
I am ordering a JP6 so should be evident of my trust.
I am not having "heartache" about JP cracks, but a complaint for a company/product that I love.
As for distribution. I do not advocate losing quality control, getting much bigger quickly to maintain larger output.
However, why have distributors/dealers with no product.
I am NOT arguing with you here. You own the company and I do not. I just don't see why people in UK for instance are saying that no stores have EB guitars on the wall but say they sell them. You can/should run your business as you wish/see fit.
An attack it was NOT, as should be evident in my spending money on your excellent products. It was merely questions so I could be better informed instead of sitting here wondering.
"Sad that I know just enough", which is exactly why I asked. I CARE. I do not know you, I do not know Jon. But I read your posts and I use your product and I wanted to understand more so I could feel better about that which I care about.
You seem to have taken my questions the way I feared might happen, but that can only be understandable as forums/writing is largely expressionless.
If you believed I was criticising I truly apologise. I am a curious person, it's my nature, and I failed personally to see why people were still posting about the same subject.
I will say no more but this, I LOVE your product, I admire your design, I Admire your customer service and I applaud your professionalism.
I am now and will continue to buy your wonderful goods.
I just had concern about issues brought up about your products which I thought could/have been adressed and I was not aware. hence my question rather than statement.

 

[Big Poppa]

I didnt flame you...just the facts baby. Strings and things carries over 300 instuments in their warehouse......Strings and things has the same problem as we do....how many stores in texas can you walk into and see a full range of well kept MM instruments?
but go back to the botttom line we now have almost 6,000 on back order and we make 1300...........if all of a sudden 20% of the worlds dealers went rabid for us the scenario would be the same.

 

[Norrin Radd]

"I am personally concerned when issues arise that trouble people enough to post with a complaint."

Come on. You have to be kidding, right? People would complain if you delivered their guitar to their home personally on a silver platter that the platter wasn't shiny enough. That's, sadly, part of some people's nature. Never being satisifed and always finding fault. That kind of behavior generally stems from a person's personality and upbringing more than is actually an accurate comment regarding the object of the complaint.

As for not having the product to try out - come on - try harder to find one. They are out there. Besides, where in the world does Musicians Friend not ship to? Do they not have a 30 day return policy? What's that? Lots of dealers have return policies? Every GC has a 30 day return policy? And they will ship from any of their locations to me? See my point - if a person is serious - really serious - about buying one - there are ways to get your hands on one to try it out.

As for the cases - That just smacks of sillyness based on your own dislikes (as you yourself confessed).

As for the "manufacturing defects" - you know, when you make something out of material that is NEVER the same from piece to piece - well, you're the engineer - you figure that one out.

 

[Dakine]

Koogie,
point very well taken and I guess an email would have been better.
I guess I saw another thread this morning about cracks and my passion got better of me.
Basically I was CERTAIN EB had solved this and was looking for it to be confirmed without doubt in this thread for all to see, esp. NEW or casual surfers. I may have missed it myself, but for this then surely more had done same.
I have NO query with pricing. heck, it's irrelavant really. Countries, taxes etc. etc. Just distribution.
I just wondered why so many places were/are apparently proporting to be dealers but did not stock the item.
I am now well and truly feeling low and snakelike and none of this was my intention.
I know I can get too passioante about things which can be a downfall.
Again, I apologise, I just care and as am not in California, not that Big Poppa would even talk to me (esp. now) wanted to voice my sadness that people were still posting about EB in a non-glowing kinda way. It's hard to explain.
SORRY

 

[Dakine]

Norrin
I AM NOT complaining, I was asking questions which Big Poppa (owner answered and am VERY grateful of, not many people would go to that trouble).
I have tried a JP and all others (I own two EB's).
In USA it is easy enough. But being a UK citizen as well I am here to tell you that it is NOT so easy to get an instrument to try and then just send back etc. if not to your liking. A "special order" it is called in many places.
The USA is luckier than it knows in MANY respects. Supply and demand. very understandable and acceptable. I am not stupid. But please don't tell me about trying somthing in other countries if in fact you have not done it yourself.
As for the case, yes it's my opinion, as stated by me and as reiterated by you, so that makes me silly? ok
Look, if I did'nt like/want the product I would'nt own/order it.
I do and have, I just wanted to ask some questions as I was seeing posts which I would like not to see with regards to a wondeful comapny like EB.
Now, if I had just come here and ranted and raved about somthing I am new to and was upset then thats one thing. I was curious and should have asked in PRIVATE that is now evident.

 

[Dakine]

Big Poppa
just read your "Buying Guitar from US" post, which was posted whilst I was writing my initial one here it seems.
That explained alot.
Again, Apologies for seeming to re-hash,be impolite or step outta line

Nick

 

[koogie2k]

Koogie,
I know I can get too passioante about things which can be a downfall.
Again, I apologise, I just care and as am not in California, not that Big Poppa would even talk to me (esp. now) wanted to voice my sadness that people were still posting about EB in a non-glowing kinda way. It's hard to explain.
SORRY

Dakine, it's all good my friend. Believe me, I am one of the most passionate EBMM consumers you will ever see. I am also quick to tell the masses about EBMM and their great products. I have many time defended Big Poppa, EBMM and their Customer Service.....Battle of the Bands last year come's to mind (with a slight sinister smile on my face...hehehehe) and on this very forum.

Believe me, Big Poppa would talk to you with no ill feelings. He is just as passionate, if not more so than us, about his family, music, and his company. If you ever get a chance to meet him, you will come away a better person.

Don't feel bad. No need. Have fun here and if it helps, use the search function or PM me......I'll help you out as best as I can.

 

[Dakine]

I realise now I made a public mistake.
It was however a well intentioned and honest one.
Passion, comes in MANY forms and SOME do NOT understand it.
Why would someone care enough,defend so voraciously somthing/someone they do not know? I cannot answer that. I just know I was bothered and I spoke.
Sorry.

 

[SteveB]

Wow! 6,000 EBMM instruments on order! There's hope for the world!

 

[Norrin Radd]

First off, no need to be so defensive. If you didn't want feedback (both negative and positve), you should not have posted your concerns in a public forum. I think, you are at least correct about that.

Secondly, I didn't indicate that it was you who would do the complaining, I simply started my post with a quote from your orginal one in order to show a link between what I was saying in relation to what you asked/stated.

Thirdly, I think you are getting some very good feedback, it might not have been what you wanted, but it is pretty accurate.

Fourth, as far as availability over seas, do you think I'm happy about what I have to pay for Guiness? Not to mention all the other great beers around the world that I cannot even purchase if I wanted to! At least with EBMM, you can get one! Have to remember they are a small company - which is a bonus for ALL of us. It means the quality stays high.

You know, I just purchased an EBMM without ever playing the particular model that I purchased. Why? I have a different model now and used to have another. I know from from my past experience that the quality will not be an issue (and in the event that it turns out to be in that .01% - I also know EBMM will take care of me). It is truly, for me, a worry free purchase. That kind of confidence, to me, is worth any tradeoff in immediate availability of instruments to try out and buy in a store. I just trust EBMM to make me a great product (or take care of me properly in the unlikely event there is an issue), I can't really say that for any other company out there. Period.

 

[kbaim]

I don't find any of the issues raised particularly out of line.

Some of us forum folk have sent our instrument back in for one reason or another and the way we're treated makes us even more passionate about the company and grateful for discovering them given they're relatively hard to find.

Add in the shindig they threw us last september just for being posters on a forum and you can see why we're all diehards. We all drank from the Kool Aid and keep going back for refills.

Good to hear your views Dakine. And glad you're addicted too.

 

[Dakine]

Norrin
whatever
I did NOT mention price. I mentioned another thread about availability "in store" for stockists in other countries.
Feedback I did'nt want? I was asking a few questions so I could gather information I did not have.
If guiness is advertised at an establishment then as I did NOT mention price, my only concern would be if that establishment actually served it.
Big Poppa graciously and succinctly answered my question.
Price is another thread and NOT one I alluded to here except for the fact of buying/ordering a guitar "sight unseen". Which I HAVE done myself with EB, I just wonder how many 'NEW" potential owners would do this is all.
Blimey I am not attacking anyone or questioning anybody. I was curious to some things which I have seen crop up many times in different threads on different boards.
Guess "the messenger" does get shot more often than not LOL

 

[Norrin Radd]

Dakine -

Whatever.

 

[lenny]

we now have almost 6,000 on back order and we make 1300...........

looks like i may be waiting awile for My Trans orange axis Considering its only been six weeks since i ordered it
oh well i never mind waiting for quality products and food made fresh to order so it gets here when it gets here i guess!
mom always said good things come to those who wait so wait i shall!

 

[Big Poppa]

dakine

please understand that I speak for Norin and any one else who posted a di8fferent perspective meant no ill will. Its all good and where as your delivery could have been better you started a great thread that really gives me an opportunity to give your guys the big picture from my seat........Listen all of you who have a differing opinion dont take the rebuttals personally and we sill have some great threads.

 

[NorM]

Wow! 6,000 EBMM instruments on order! There's hope for the world!

2 / 6000 = 0.000333 (just little ole me)
Happy to stand in line with the coolest people in the world.

Remember when your feeling very small and insecure, just pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause there's bugger all down here on earth.

 

[Thirdpole]

I praise EBMM for NEVER compromising quality for quantity !

IMO, this company is one of the only few left that still has consideration and respect for its customers as one of its prime value.