phatduckk
Well-known member
bluebullet said:
im not gonna bash benji ... but i have some questions about this. i wish i could talk to someone at EB regarding how these decisions are made ... just for my curiosity really.
- Thread starter SteveB
- Start date
im not gonna bash benji ... but i have some questions about this. i wish i could talk to someone at EB regarding how these decisions are made ... just for my curiosity really.
slukather
Well-known member
bluebullet said:
Yeah, alot of people have to remember (including myself) that ernie ball music man is a company, and companys need to make money (DUH!!!!). Thats probably what the higher ups were thinking when they signed Benji up, they are just trying to bridge that age barrier. I haven't tried the Benji guitar, but to me it doesn't seem to be as versitle as say a Luke, Petrucci, even Axis. It's kinda limited with just one pickup, but if one kid buys this guitar and loves it, of course he/she will tell friends, then more and more kids start buying through word of mouth. But it's just hard to break that barrier, Kids now , all they care about is what artist is playing what, brand names, brand names, brand names, if it doesn't say PRS, Ibanez etc, they won't touch it. But hell if a kid wants to fork over a couple of thoasand dollar for a Brand name amp/guitar, l don't care, l'll just stand there and laugh.
Enough rambling. From me anyway.
Scott.
SteveB
Well-known member
trying to steer this thread back on topic..
I'm firing a retro rocket to correct the course of this thread.
What I'm really interested in is discussing how we can get more EBMM guitars on the walls of our local shops, not questioning the wisdom of a Benji Madden signature guitar. I'm sure that the decision makers at EB know a little more than the rest of us about selling guitars.
Of course, the guitars should only have a brief stay on the wall before going home with their new servant... err... owner.
I'm firing a retro rocket to correct the course of this thread.
What I'm really interested in is discussing how we can get more EBMM guitars on the walls of our local shops, not questioning the wisdom of a Benji Madden signature guitar. I'm sure that the decision makers at EB know a little more than the rest of us about selling guitars.
Of course, the guitars should only have a brief stay on the wall before going home with their new servant... err... owner.
mbgreene
Well-known member
I'd also like a little more insight on product availability. My local shop has had a single AL for at least a year and a half since I started looking into getting back into playing. They had a JP for a while, which, if I can tell from past posts, is one of the ones OC picked up last year. They do have a couple of Subs and at least one of each of the bass models, but none of the other natural neck guitars. And apparently I got lucky in playing the AL last year because there are no others in stock in the NY metro area.
I'm not sure if this is just a mom/pop shop issue. The GC in Manhattan, which I stop in at lunch sometimes, other than Subs and basses has a single Axis, and this store is several thousand square feet on 2 levels. I've only spoken to floor guys but they don't know if any other stock is coming in. On 48th street, the former mecca of music stores, there is nothing in Sam Ash/Manny's which has taken over almost the whole block and, by the way, just removed Gibby from there product line for "contractual reasons". Rudy's stocks only the EBMM basses.
I don't know if Pete or Doug can speak from a retailer's point without stepping on toes, and understand as such. But when I went in to show my local guy the new Morse photos from the forum and ask about the possibility of putting that or any other products on the wall, I got a lot of maybes.
In past conversations with them they seem to make there money on low to mid end products with heavy marketing that go out the door. They carry neither F$$%er or Gibby but mostly stuff like Dean and Schecter. They only real high end guitar they have is one of the handmade Dean hardtails which has been hanging next to the AL for just as long. I'm guessing its just too much for a small shop to carry higher end inventory that doesn't move quickly, especially when dealing with internet competition. But, like I said I don't understand the bigger players not having inventory.
Sorry to ramble, just venting a bit. It can be frustrating to not be able to sample a Morse, Silo, ASS etc. But it can also be a bit selfish to ask a local store to carry high end inventory just so I can play it in their shop.
I'm not sure if this is just a mom/pop shop issue. The GC in Manhattan, which I stop in at lunch sometimes, other than Subs and basses has a single Axis, and this store is several thousand square feet on 2 levels. I've only spoken to floor guys but they don't know if any other stock is coming in. On 48th street, the former mecca of music stores, there is nothing in Sam Ash/Manny's which has taken over almost the whole block and, by the way, just removed Gibby from there product line for "contractual reasons". Rudy's stocks only the EBMM basses.
I don't know if Pete or Doug can speak from a retailer's point without stepping on toes, and understand as such. But when I went in to show my local guy the new Morse photos from the forum and ask about the possibility of putting that or any other products on the wall, I got a lot of maybes.
In past conversations with them they seem to make there money on low to mid end products with heavy marketing that go out the door. They carry neither F$$%er or Gibby but mostly stuff like Dean and Schecter. They only real high end guitar they have is one of the handmade Dean hardtails which has been hanging next to the AL for just as long. I'm guessing its just too much for a small shop to carry higher end inventory that doesn't move quickly, especially when dealing with internet competition. But, like I said I don't understand the bigger players not having inventory.
Sorry to ramble, just venting a bit. It can be frustrating to not be able to sample a Morse, Silo, ASS etc. But it can also be a bit selfish to ask a local store to carry high end inventory just so I can play it in their shop.
PeteDuBaldo
Well-known member
mbgreene said:
From a retailer's point of view, having 5 EBs on the wall means a minimum of $5,000 of inventory money is tied up. For a mom and pop store, this would be instead of 50 violins, 10 saxophones, or 25 beginner guitars. It's not easy for mpm and pop to get a Trans-Teal Stingray in, and then have 4-5 people hit you up and say they would take it if it were Trans-Gold (just an example), but don't want to wait 3-4 months for a special order. I can count the EB guitars I've sold from store stock on one hand over the last 4 months - I have about 20 instruments in stock at any given moment, but I can't have every possible combination, I believe Sterling said there are around 30,000 different ways to order a Music Man? Special orders are welcomed, because that $ doesn't sit on the wall and get dusty.
That's about it, I gotta go before I'm late to work and have to fire myself!
Al that being said, since it's a new year and all, I do have a Morse Deluxe, RW Axis, and some ButterCream stuff on order
kbaim
Well-known member
About a year ago I was in Sam Ash here in orange county ca, and they had 2 lukes they were discounting. a luke blue and a black sparkle.
I was told sam ash wouldn't be carrying ebmm guitars any longer. Thus giving me no reason to stop by that store since. Not for strings, or pedals or amps. Screw them.
But I can't fault them if the guitars aren't selling. It's the great retailing unknown. EB puts out a great product, competitively priced but going up against mammoth competition from names so well entrenched they could put strings and pickups on barstools and sell thousands of them. How do you compete against that?
Blue bullet makes an excellent point about the sig guitarists all being over 50, though I think petrucci may be younger and luke just below. And it seems the PRS business model where only 1 guy, Carlos Santana, has a sig model, and the rest of the semi famous to famous players play one of the others in the line seems to have worked very well for that company.
But let's not forget that PRS is primarily a guitar manufacturer, whereas EB is more a string and Bass company that HAPPENS to also manufacture guitars (thank the heavens).
And let's also remember that eb just recently went ahead with a HUGE business decision to try and penetrate the lower end market with the sub line (prs doing something similar at about exactly the same time), is one that isn't arrived at lightly. Probably over a couple years is my guess. And this might be the best way to get a youger and larger market demographic for their guitars. With the hope that these users upgrade after a year or 2 to the more expensive line.
I for one, would have loved to be a fly on the wall during this period. These are interesting times.
KEITH
I was told sam ash wouldn't be carrying ebmm guitars any longer. Thus giving me no reason to stop by that store since. Not for strings, or pedals or amps. Screw them.
But I can't fault them if the guitars aren't selling. It's the great retailing unknown. EB puts out a great product, competitively priced but going up against mammoth competition from names so well entrenched they could put strings and pickups on barstools and sell thousands of them. How do you compete against that?
Blue bullet makes an excellent point about the sig guitarists all being over 50, though I think petrucci may be younger and luke just below. And it seems the PRS business model where only 1 guy, Carlos Santana, has a sig model, and the rest of the semi famous to famous players play one of the others in the line seems to have worked very well for that company.
But let's not forget that PRS is primarily a guitar manufacturer, whereas EB is more a string and Bass company that HAPPENS to also manufacture guitars (thank the heavens).
And let's also remember that eb just recently went ahead with a HUGE business decision to try and penetrate the lower end market with the sub line (prs doing something similar at about exactly the same time), is one that isn't arrived at lightly. Probably over a couple years is my guess. And this might be the best way to get a youger and larger market demographic for their guitars. With the hope that these users upgrade after a year or 2 to the more expensive line.
I for one, would have loved to be a fly on the wall during this period. These are interesting times.
KEITH
SteveB
Well-known member
thanx to Pete
Pete,
Thanks for chiming in, the perspective is valuable. I tend to forget that so many folks go out and play guitars in music stores for a hobby. I never play stuff in a store unless I'm actually in the market and ready to buy, but I guess that's just my nature.
It would seem that unless a small dealer wanted to operate a boutique-ish shop (and/or had a lot of $$$ to spend on inventory), then it is unliklely that we will ever find a nice selection of EBMM guitars in a mom-and-pop store.
Heck, I wasn't even thinking about colors. I would just be happy to see multiple models of EBMM in one store, let alone have multiple colors on hand to choose from!
I hope that boss of yours will go easy on you.
Pete,
Thanks for chiming in, the perspective is valuable. I tend to forget that so many folks go out and play guitars in music stores for a hobby. I never play stuff in a store unless I'm actually in the market and ready to buy, but I guess that's just my nature.
It would seem that unless a small dealer wanted to operate a boutique-ish shop (and/or had a lot of $$$ to spend on inventory), then it is unliklely that we will ever find a nice selection of EBMM guitars in a mom-and-pop store.
Heck, I wasn't even thinking about colors. I would just be happy to see multiple models of EBMM in one store, let alone have multiple colors on hand to choose from!
I hope that boss of yours will go easy on you.
SteveB
Well-known member
Keith,
I think that the SUB product line was a great idea for EBMM, and I expect that it will pay huge dividends after they have been out for a few years and word gets around. Hopefully it will lead to brand loyalty and those SUB buyers will eventually purchase other EBMM products.
Ernie Ball is probably well described as a string company (and other accessories), but I always think of Music Man as a separate entity in my mind. Those folks are there to make instruments, period. [and we all know how well they do that!]
Didn't PRS make a Tremonti signature guitar until the Gibby lawsuit erupted?
I wondered why Sam Ash doesn't carry EBMM. I still do, I suppose... but I didn't know that they used to have them. There's not a Sam Ash to be found in the western part of Pennsylvania, so I don't tend to patronize them anyway. Heck, Guitar Center is relatively new to the area.. we're getting our 2nd one this month on the 17th.
I think that the SUB product line was a great idea for EBMM, and I expect that it will pay huge dividends after they have been out for a few years and word gets around. Hopefully it will lead to brand loyalty and those SUB buyers will eventually purchase other EBMM products.
Ernie Ball is probably well described as a string company (and other accessories), but I always think of Music Man as a separate entity in my mind. Those folks are there to make instruments, period. [and we all know how well they do that!]
Didn't PRS make a Tremonti signature guitar until the Gibby lawsuit erupted?
I wondered why Sam Ash doesn't carry EBMM. I still do, I suppose... but I didn't know that they used to have them. There's not a Sam Ash to be found in the western part of Pennsylvania, so I don't tend to patronize them anyway. Heck, Guitar Center is relatively new to the area.. we're getting our 2nd one this month on the 17th.
mbgreene
Well-known member
Thanks for your reply Pete. I wasn't trying to call anyone out, just wondered if you could provide some info from another perspective. Also I didn't mean to suggest that I use these stores just to play around (sometimes after reading your own posts, what is written doesn't always sound like what you wanted to write). Actually most times I'll stop in to "window shop" and not necessarily play so as not to take up the time of a sales person or put extra wear and tear on their stock. But sometimes it is a Catch 22. I would only play something if I saw it and had an interest in purchasing it, but can't make that decision if it is not there to play and get a feel for.
I discovered the AL because originally the dealer told me he was getting G&L's in, which I had also never played, and I'd go back every few weeks to check. They never got there and I finally pulled the AL off the wall and saw the light. I ordered a new one my next trip in. But without the availability of the other models, I don't know what my opinions would have been had they also been available, regardless of color etc.
The Sub is probably the way to go to get people interested in the brand at a more competative price point with the market they service. But any time I'm in the shop to look at amps or accessories etc. if anyone is playing around I'll point to the AL and say try that one, you'll like it.
I discovered the AL because originally the dealer told me he was getting G&L's in, which I had also never played, and I'd go back every few weeks to check. They never got there and I finally pulled the AL off the wall and saw the light. I ordered a new one my next trip in. But without the availability of the other models, I don't know what my opinions would have been had they also been available, regardless of color etc.
The Sub is probably the way to go to get people interested in the brand at a more competative price point with the market they service. But any time I'm in the shop to look at amps or accessories etc. if anyone is playing around I'll point to the AL and say try that one, you'll like it.
francric
Well-known member
kbaim said:
PeteDuBaldo
Well-known member
SteveB said:Pete,
Thanks for chiming in, the perspective is valuable. I tend to forget that so many folks go out and play guitars in music stores for a hobby. I never play stuff in a store unless I'm actually in the market and ready to buy, but I guess that's just my nature.
It would seem that unless a small dealer wanted to operate a boutique-ish shop (and/or had a lot of $$$ to spend on inventory), then it is unliklely that we will ever find a nice selection of EBMM guitars in a mom-and-pop store.
Heck, I wasn't even thinking about colors. I would just be happy to see multiple models of EBMM in one store, let alone have multiple colors on hand to choose from!
I hope that boss of yours will go easy on you.
A selection kinda like this?
Still small but gets a variety of products onto the floor.
We've run out of wall space here, and moved a bunch of EB stuff like Silos, Benji, Stingrays, and SUBs to the other store - there are currently 19 EBs in stock between the two locations)
I've had a few people stop in for the sole purpose of trying out the EBs, but very few people just reach over and pick one up - I guess the price tags keep them at bay
I hope I helped! I would have more in stock if traffic/rollover permitted it. Fortunately, window shopping and appointments for these guitars are picking up, people are coming straight here from GC which is 2 miles away, and special orders are plodding along. In the next year or two when we expand the store into the next building, you can bet that the inventory will be bumped up accordingly!
SteveB
Well-known member
Wow, Pete!
Pete,
That's a great EBMM selection for a local store..heck, for *any* store! If I lived near your place I'd have no more disposable income!
I think you've got the right idea having so many different models available. That gives would-be owners a great range to try. Pete, you're my new hero! Can you call my local stores and point them to this thread?
Pete,
That's a great EBMM selection for a local store..heck, for *any* store! If I lived near your place I'd have no more disposable income!
I think you've got the right idea having so many different models available. That gives would-be owners a great range to try. Pete, you're my new hero! Can you call my local stores and point them to this thread?
