Question Why are EBMM guitars so expensive in Europe?

[Dante]

for a long time, it was cheaper to just fly there and get the guitars, as long as you bought more than one. old story, buy a plane ticket, split the cost of the plane ticket, etc.

what bugs me the most is that EBMM takes all this trouble to care after the small guys(distributos), yet some of them flat out ruin it. i fail to understand why EBMM costs so much more in germany, while it is one of the biggest european hubs in logistics. belgium and england on the other hand, are a chunk cheaper. english prices currently almost match the dollar prices in euros.

i know it is what it can be, and little can be done about it. that doesn't mean we have to like it.

 

[jamminjim]

Been there and done it

Hey Dante - understand how you feel man - in the 80's I heard some talk amongst the range rats that the stereo gear was way more high end and way more attainable in Ramstein. I got really tired of hearing about it so I flew in to Amsterdam and rented a car and drove to Ramstein AFB audio photo club and shopped for stereo gear. Boxed it all up and took it to Brunsum (AFCENT) and mailed it home to Nevada. I bought the high end component Technics gear, separate pre and power amps with big lighted VU meters, separate tuner tape deck etc. Had to buy the plug adapters to work in the US> but was worth it. Guess I could have flown to Okinawa too.. LOL

Maybe you Europeans could get together (via internet chat or email) and one or two of you could go shopping for the group in Connecticut, if you get my drift.. ....

 

[Ang3lus]

my peturcci cost me 3000$~ new in israel

funny though, i could have flown to the .us and back and import it myself, would still be cheaper :O

I know all the haggle that goes with exporting etc, but it's really stupid. I think you can lose on export even though you sell it for a high price.

 

[D.K.]

Just 2 cents - I had come through 7 EBMMs last year alone, all but one from the US, all very slightly used, but the prices, even after all the taxes and the transportation costs, were pretty much what You see on E-Bay in US$, just in Euro.

And please, don't let us start on the shop prices for new EBMMs in Europe - a pretty big bunch of the calculation is a bland rip off, because you are going to buy a high-class all american product, hence You have a lot of money... Not going to start a fight here, but I have some insight into the pricing policies of the biggest german music stores (Thomann and Music-Store), so bear with me - buying used is (very sad about that, Big Poppa) the way to go.

 

[TLL]

A stock Silhouette Special in Germany: 2679 $

Silhouette Special in the US: 1435 $
shipping costs to Ger:+ 200 $
currency conversion to Euro:*0,709
duty:+ 3,7 %
EU-tax:+ 19 %
currency conversion to USD:*1,411
price: 2018 $

that's a difference of 661 $. That difference gets bigger with more features.

 

[skerwo]

...buying used is (very sad about that, Big Poppa) the way to go.

Meine Worte - oops, that´s what i said. And if you have a serious seller, there´s no risk because balls are high class and high quality.

 

[Big Poppa]

A stock Silhouette Special in Germany: 2679 $

Silhouette Special in the US: 1435 $
shipping costs to Ger:+ 200 $
currency conversion to Euro:*0,709
duty:+ 3,7 %
EU-tax:+ 19 %
currency conversion to USD:*1,411
price: 2018 $

that's a difference of 661 $. That difference gets bigger with more features.

OK Good start...if that was the only fees in your oversimplified business model that would work out to a gross profit of 30%...NOw lets rent a building pay utilities, carry inventory, print catalogs, make websites, pay salesmen, pay ware house, hire accounting and related staff, buy supplies, pay insurance, underwrite artist endorsements for your country, creat and pay for magazine ads, entertain dealers, handle warranty returns and assume credit risk for the music store....OH yeah and a currency with the euro that has gone through the roof.....

If they are lucky they are making 7% net on their money seems like a fair deal to me.
Ill let this go for a few more threads but on the surface you guys are dead right...when you look at it you are dead wrong.

I wish that I could make everybody happy and make all of this happen in every country at the same price....

Do you know why new companies go out of business? Its becaseu they usually enter it not considering all of the actual and hidden costs of doing business...

 

[Smellybum]

+1 BP

A year ago -when it was $2 for every £1 - you could get deals like there was no tomorrow on used stuff, and as I think it was Jim said get on a plane from UK to US - buy something bring it back and score -

But that was a year ago -

It's a different world now, those of us with jobs are lucky to have them, those of us with guitars (Escpecially EBMM's!) are lucky to have them - I live in a remote area so I have to add on extra postage on top of customs charging etc, - BP is right, bringing 1 unit over saves money but to do it as a business is suicide, - I presume that's why GC haven't opened in europe yet -

You have companies like Thomann that becuase of the strength of the euro can expand and put in a new warehous and shipping wing, but the UK/US and Japan - all sit tight becuase staying afloat is a good thing right now,

I personally think we're damn lucky not to have lost any companies or more dealers right now, these are hard times kids, not times to bitch to those still trying to keep things going...

Rant over!

 

[bkrumme]

Let's be serious here. BP has to do what's best for EBMM first, otherwise there wouldn't be prices to whine about. Let's let him make the decisions so we can keep buying the guitars.

I agree that it sucks to have to pay more for an instrument in Europe, but I'd rather pay more than not be able to get it at all.

 

[lenny]

+1
Ask US residents how much they have to pay for ENGL or Diezel amps?

Or "Mad Professor" or BJFE Pedals from Finland ....they are triple here what they are there!...and not because Bjorn wants it that way ...he would rather sell more pedals BUT......

 

[TLL]

Ok

Didn't want to attack you in any way Poppa. Just looked on the surface like you said. I really don't know much about business. It's just what I can see from my point of view..a poor student who is dreaming of a MM
I understand that leading a shop or sth like that means current costs but 600 $ on EVERY guitar...well i don't know

 

[jamminjim]

BP said ; Do you know why new companies go out of business? Its because they usually enter it not considering all of the actual and hidden costs of doing business...

100% agree. The tangible and intangible costs/expenses of operating a profitable business in the USA are staggering. There's a commercial building down the street from us, and we've witnessed three different businesses start up and fail in the last two years. And that's just one building on one street. We have an excellent business incubator here in GJ that will help with a business idea...... for peanuts.....they offer worldclass resources..... and somehow I dont think the people who saw their businesses fail started there first.... (unfortunately)

I think another reason businesses fail is that they fail to do market research on their business idea. The product has to have a market... a demand.

OK... time to stop blabbering.

 

[Jimmyb]

Ok

Didn't want to attack you in any way Poppa. Just looked on the surface like you said. I really don't know much about business. It's just what I can see from my point of view..a poor student who is dreaming of a MM
I understand that leading a shop or sth like that means current costs but 600 $ on EVERY guitar...well i don't know

Yes, but unfortunately your maths are wrong.

Outside of the US it goes:
EBMM > Wholesaler > Dealer > You

The first three have to make money, otherwise the guitar doesn't end up with you.

Like BP said, the guys in the chain are not making huge amounts on the sale of each guitar.

As for the suggestion of taking a trip across to the US and posting it back to yourself, a few things crop up there:
You'll have no warranty, it's country of purchase only.
You risk import duty and tax (yes, even when shipping it to yourself).
If you declare a lower value, it's illegal and you risk prosecution, or seizure of goods (possibly in both countries).
If the carrier accidentally lands in the middle of an elephant reserve and your guitar is tap-danced upon by the grey-skinned behemonths, you have the hassle of dealing with the insurance.

Seriously, I know it's a pain for all of us non-US folks, but it's really been done to death and BP's given us the lowdown.

 

[TheBassGuy]

This is actually very interesting (I thought this would be closed within the minute). I sure do realize that a lot of costs are involved in the process that make guitars here more expensive than in the US. One thing however keeps troubling me. The balance between brands.

Now I'm not gonna look at currency's, but pure the balance between price per brand. In the US, when someone goes to a shop, Musicman guitars are an interesting option. This because compared to other brands the price isn't much higher (if at all) than a comparable guitar from another brand. In the UK, this also holds true to a certain point. Yes you pay extra, but hey, quality is something people are willing to pay some extra for.

Now for some scenario ( )... I go to the Netherlands (Germany, Belgium etc.). Step into a shop and go and look for uh.. lets say I'm gonna search for a strat type model...

"Wow, a lot of Fenders, some Charvels, and huh whats that? A musicman? Lets try it! Wow this plays amazing. How much does it cost? Ok... Thats pretty pricey. Oh snap! for this money I can buy 2 USA made Strats in a burst color! But, the Musicman plays so sweet. I Ask the guy from the store what the options on the Musicman are. Sweet, sunburst, but aw, thats extra. This guitar also has a tremelo right? Yup, at additional cost. Ok... Whats the total price then? *Almost faints*".

I go home, think about it and compare. Lets see, for the price I have 2 DELUXE USA strats, I can have 1 musicman with tremelo in burst color".

/end of scenario.

Ok, this was a little dramatic, but it basically boils down to this very story. I know EBMM doesn't like it when people import stuff. Distributors in our own country's loose sales on this. But looking at the balance between brands, something is going wrong here I think. If it was in the same balance as in the UK, a Strat here, would set me back around 1800 euro's, and not only 999.

Still I'm not trying to offend anyone or hurt someone's feelings. I'm just the kinda guy with the "why?" question and an interest in economy, trade and commerce.

If I'm out of line, please tell me and/or delete my post.

 

[douglasspears]

OK Good start.....NOw lets rent a building pay utilities, carry inventory, print catalogs, make websites, pay salesmen, pay ware house, hire accounting and related staff, buy supplies, pay insurance, underwrite artist endorsements for your country, creat and pay for magazine ads, entertain dealers, handle warranty returns and assume credit risk for the music store....

aren't there already EBMM dealers/distributors over there currently?

 

[Jimmyb]

aren't there already EBMM dealers/distributors over there currently?

Yes and they incur all of those costs.

 

[Jimmyb]

<snip>

I go home, think about it and compare. Lets see, for the price I have 2 DELUXE USA strats, I can have 1 musicman with tremelo in burst color".

/end of scenario.

Ok, this was a little dramatic, but it basically boils down to this very story. I know EBMM doesn't like it when people import stuff. Distributors in our own country's loose sales on this. But looking at the balance between brands, something is going wrong here I think. If it was in the same balance as in the UK, a Strat here, would set me back around 1800 euro's, and not only 999.

Still I'm not trying to offend anyone or hurt someone's feelings. I'm just the kinda guy with the "why?" question and an interest in economy, trade and commerce.

If I'm out of line, please tell me and/or delete my post.

Different situation here. Apart from importing far higher amounts of gear, Fender run their own import operation into the UK and Europe.

Really, it is what it is. If BP could find a better way of giving us better value, whilst maintaining good service I'm sure he would.

 

[TheBassGuy]

Different situation here. Apart from importing far higher amounts of gear, Fender run their own import operation into the UK and Europe.

Really, it is what it is. If BP could find a better way of giving us better value, whilst maintaining good service I'm sure he would.

Correct Jim, but the UK is also EU, so I would expect that if a Strat cost 1000 in the UK and a 1000 in NL, a Silo would cost 1500 in the UK and 1500 here in NL, not 2000... I know, I know, BP and the EBMM crew wants the best for their customers. They showed me more than 1 time and I'm thankfull for that, but somehow I have the feeling that between EBMM's factory, the importers, distributors, resellers and an NL shop, this guy runs the show:

 

[Jimmyb]

Maybe they need to charge more over there to pay for the flood defences

Hey, you know there are some things that you can get for much less than us over here, plus you don't risk arrest

 

[D.K.]

Guys, please - let's not forget that the big shops here in Germany (and all over the world, probably) do not get the guitars for the US retail price, but dramartically less! So all the pricing calculations made in this thread, which of course do not include paying insurance and rents for buildings etc., should be put down quite a step.

Once again - it's understandable, especially since almost any other american or japanese maker does have that unreasonably high prices in the EU, but please, let's not try to tell ourselves it's normal and it's as cheap as it goes.

Two examples to make my point:

1) It's just the same with the German makers, who should be much more affordable - but no, ENGL or Framus's prices are for years pretty much on par with the american high quality stuff. Is that because of the non-existing taxes or transportation costs? (And yes, they may cost three times as much in the US, but there You have a GREAT range of less expensive classy american products to choose from)

2) The same rule does in no way apply to the US. You'd bet a Porsche or a Mercedes or an Airbus or anything else EU/France/Germany excels at (the way US certainly does in the musical instrument market) would be significatly more expensive in the US than here. But no - in fact, it's cheaper, since the US is still considered a more important and prestigious market.