why do I bother?

[shakinbacon]

Just had band practice and could not get my tone.

It was a very nice new sound system with in-ear monitors (which I'm not crazy about but the FOH speakers were awesome).

In any case, it seemed my in-ear tone was too trebly and when we listened to the mix through the same system it was very boomy. I took the in-ears out when I didn't like how trebly the sound was and realize how NOT trebly that sound was. It sounded good but it wasn't my sound. Thus I left my tone controls alone. Also, it was so boomy it would have affected my playing had I heard it in real time (you know, when there is so much bass in your tone that you're oblidged to play simpler lines?)

Why do I bother with such a nice bass as the Bongo with extensive eq control (I left it flat by the way with about 30% piezo signal)? The soundman will always tweak the tone as he sees fit.

argh... sorry for the rant and I'm sure it doesn't make sense, but I'm frustrated.

 

[strummer]

I think most of us have been there once or twice. But think of it this way: The tone you refer to as your tone is probably what you think of as the perfect sounding bass, whereas the sound guy is (or should be) concerned with the sound of the BAND.
I never worry about foh, I just make sure I hear myself on stage.

 

[shakinbacon]

I think most of us have been there once or twice. But think of it this way: The tone you refer to as your tone is probably what you think of as the perfect sounding bass, whereas the sound guy is (or should be) concerned with the sound of the BAND.
I never worry about foh, I just make sure I hear myself on stage.

Very good points strummer

For the record, I do try very hard to make the band sound good while making the bass sound good

On the positive side, since the soundman likes bass, I can eq that way at home and try and practice (he is more or less scooped on the bass - I'm not getting buried becuase he's pumping me through the massive power amps)

 

[oli@bass]

i never worry about foh, i just make sure i hear myself on stage.

+1

 

[mynan]

Lots of possible variables there.

What kind of in-ear system is it? Are you using a decent set of earbuds/headphones? If your in-ears sound too trebly, it could be either cheap earbuds/headphones or your in-ears need an eq adjustment. Most decent in-ear systems allow you to adjust the eq to your liking. If the in-ear system is being run from the board, the sound guy should be able to adjust it for you.

Are you using an amplifier on stage? If you aren't using an amp on stage and it sounds boomy, it's probably because you are standing behind the speakers.

 

[bizmarckie]

Lots of possible variables there.

What kind of in-ear system is it? Are you using a decent set of earbuds/headphones? If your in-ears sound too trebly, it could be either cheap earbuds/headphones or your in-ears need an eq adjustment. Most decent in-ear systems allow you to adjust the eq to your liking. If the in-ear system is being run from the board, the sound guy should be able to adjust it for you.

Are you using an amplifier on stage? If you aren't using an amp on stage and it sounds boomy, it's probably because you are standing behind the speakers.

+1
Word.

 

[Grand Wazoo]

Ideal would be for you to hear exactly what the sound man hears or in the audience, to learn what filters through and what doesn't, you'll be surprised that what you hear standing by your amp it's a lot different from what other can away from the stage, I often get the guitar player to play something on my bass while I go and check it out on the sound man's headphones or as often in my case behind the bar where most people usually hear you from.

 

[Bloodfist]

Most monitor systems that I have played through be it floor or in ears are always to trebly on the bass guitar. Most of the time the sound guys I know do this so they don't risk blowing a monitor. We usually set our amp tones on stage, then walk out to the sound board and play to see how the front of the house sounds( one of the many perks to using a wireless system). After the sound guy has the front of the house right where we all want it, we check the monitors. I usually put enough of my bass guitar in my monitors to barely hear it so that it blends with my amp on certain spots on my side of the stage. Because it's so trebly through the monitors , I cant stand to hear it. For me it's more important to hear the drums, guitars, and vocals than it is for me to hear my bass. I can usually hear it just fine and feel it through the rumbling of the FOH. Your bass is going to sound good because you have a high quality bass. I have one question for all of yall though, why do yall like to set your EQ's flat on your bass all the time? I usually have mine fully boosted, set to tone with my amp. I use a Stingray not a bong, so I know my electronics are not as strong, but I hear of many Ray users doing this. To me it sounds like the Ray has lost its punch if I do this.

 

[five7]

shakin, get a wireless system so you can go out and listen to the house mix and adjust your tone. Unless you are singing don't use the in ears.

 

[cellkirk74]

I have one question for all of yall though, why do yall like to set your EQ's flat on your bass all the time? I usually have mine fully boosted, set to tone with my amp. I use a Stingray not a bong, so I know my electronics are not as strong, but I hear of many Ray users doing this. To me it sounds like the Ray has lost its punch if I do this.

Good question. I boost bass and mids on my SR5 to get where I want to be with the band. It is different alone at home, where I do not need to cut against two Guitar stacks. But even there I like a little midboost.

 

[mynan]

I have one question for all of yall though, why do yall like to set your EQ's flat on your bass all the time? I usually have mine fully boosted, set to tone with my amp. I use a Stingray not a bong, so I know my electronics are not as strong, but I hear of many Ray users doing this. To me it sounds like the Ray has lost its punch if I do this.

I think the practice of boosting everything came from passive basses. There have been a few times that I've let other players check out my EBMMs where the first thing they did was roll all the knobs to 10...sounds like $#!+ every time.

Theoretically, boosting everything should be the same as running it flat...the difference being where you run the input gain on your amp, but my experience is that it just ends up sounding like a GC on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[shakinbacon]

thanks everyone for the suggestions and experience

I spoke to the soundman who listened to a recording direct from the board (its a nice digital board). He said he was mixing with headphones and was surprised how bassy the mix was in listening back. He also said he'd take it easy on the bass and mix with his ears and not just with headphones.

Things may be getting better afterall.

 

[oli@bass]

I have one question for all of yall though, why do yall like to set your EQ's flat on your bass all the time?

Check out my http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/42214-stingray-sound-examples.html.

Cutting mids completely has almost the same effect as fully boosting the treble and bass. So, if you boost all bands, you get something similar to flat, but without and moving space. I prefer to start from flat, and add a touch of bass depending on the instrument (some 'Rays have so much natural lows, there's no need for more boost). In your situation, you could get more or less the same sound by just boosting the treble and bass a tiny bit and open the gain on the amp. Same with the volume pot: It's an active bass with lots of headroom, so you don't need to dime it but can have it set at 70% of volume and boost if you need to cut a little more through.

Also, although I like the trebly-bassy sound of a 'Ray with boosted bass and treble all by itself, it just doesn't work in a band setting or for my bands sound particularly.

 

[MSilvers]

Are you using a DI for the bass in the mix? That might cause it to sound so trebely in your ears. Maybe try putting a mic up to the amp instead.

 

[Bloodfist]

Check out my http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/42214-stingray-sound-examples.html.

Cutting mids completely has almost the same effect as fully boosting the treble and bass. So, if you boost all bands, you get something similar to flat, but without and moving space. I prefer to start from flat, and add a touch of bass depending on the instrument (some 'Rays have so much natural lows, there's no need for more boost). In your situation, you could get more or less the same sound by just boosting the treble and bass a tiny bit and open the gain on the amp. Same with the volume pot: It's an active bass with lots of headroom, so you don't need to dime it but can have it set at 70% of volume and boost if you need to cut a little more through.

Also, although I like the trebly-bassy sound of a 'Ray with boosted bass and treble all by itself, it just doesn't work in a band setting or for my bands sound particularly.

The bass I use is the HH. Most of the time I do like the punchy sound the eq fully open with maybe a hair of the mids rolled off and played in the 1st position. On slower songs, I like to switch to the 3rd position, roll off the highs a little and play finger style to give it a real fat warm sound. I do use the volume to cut through at certain times, especially if I'm doing a bass solo. I guess you could say that I set my bass and my amp for my main tone that I like to use through out the set because of the type of music we play, and I like to cut more than boost for certain songs. If I were playing cover songs where I would need to adjust the tone constantly to achieve different bass tones quickly, I would definitely set the eq's flat and adjust them on the fly. Keep in mind also that I play with a pick when I'm playing with my band mainly because I like the sound it gives for our style of music. When I'm not playing with the band, I play finger style and find myself adjusting the eq's a lot more.

 

[shakinbacon]

Are you using a DI for the bass in the mix? That might cause it to sound so trebely in your ears. Maybe try putting a mic up to the amp instead.

Yes I am using the POST (Tube) DI out from my amp, which is set for flat eq. I notice that the POST setting is noticably treblier, so you have a good point.

The soundman doesn't like to mike the bass amp (although he doesn't mind the guitars... grrrrrr)

 

[BoH]

I have to agree with stummer on this. I let the sound man worry about how the house sounds. I just want to make sure I hear myself on stage. We use wedges and my bandmates are okay with whatever we have to do to hear our mix as we need it.

The sound man has his job and I have my job. I leave it at that.

Bo

 

[RaginRog]

Most monitor systems that I have played through be it floor or in ears are always to trebly on the bass guitar. Most of the time the sound guys I know do this so they don't risk blowing a monitor. We usually set our amp tones on stage, then walk out to the sound board and play to see how the front of the house sounds( one of the many perks to using a wireless system). After the sound guy has the front of the house right where we all want it, we check the monitors. I usually put enough of my bass guitar in my monitors to barely hear it so that it blends with my amp on certain spots on my side of the stage. Because it's so trebly through the monitors , I cant stand to hear it. For me it's more important to hear the drums, guitars, and vocals than it is for me to hear my bass. I can usually hear it just fine and feel it through the rumbling of the FOH. Your bass is going to sound good because you have a high quality bass. I have one question for all of yall though, why do yall like to set your EQ's flat on your bass all the time? I usually have mine fully boosted, set to tone with my amp. I use a Stingray not a bong, so I know my electronics are not as strong, but I hear of many Ray users doing this. To me it sounds like the Ray has lost its punch if I do this.

I would always boost some of my Lows and Mids...and the Highs when we payed any RATM covers. I had to watch the lows though because it would start to clip our semi-crappy PA.

Wireless is the way to go. You get such a better FOH sound when you're able to walk 30-40 feet from your rig/stage.

 

[RaginRog]

The bass I use is the HH.

If I were playing cover songs where I would need to adjust the tone constantly to achieve different bass tones quickly, I would definitely set the eq's flat and adjust them on the fly.

That's why I like having the HH model. I'm in a cover band, and need all the tonal variety I can get from my basses.

 

[shakinbacon]

I have to agree with stummer on this. I let the sound man worry about how the house sounds. I just want to make sure I hear myself on stage. We use wedges and my bandmates are okay with whatever we have to do to hear our mix as we need it.

The sound man has his job and I have my job. I leave it at that.

Bo

Understood. I agree the soundman has a job and I have mine. My frustration is that the eq in the mix was so different that it would have affected my playing if I had heard it in real time.

When bass tone is heavy on the lows (for example in Reggae), I find I have to greatly simplify my bass lines.

In the end I'm trying to make the band sound good, not necessarily me.

I'll try many of the suggestions posted. Much appreciated everyone.