Why I haven't bought a MusicMan - an outsider's perspective.

[bassmonkey]

I haven't seen any disrespectful comments. He is sharing his opinion with valid discussion points. He did not come in here saying this sucks or that sucks.

I do not see any validity in raising these points on the company website. I just see disrespect and a lack of tact. If he wants to have this discussion he should take it to talkbass.

 

[BenjaminStrange]

I think you are incredibly egocentric if you cannot see anything wrong with your comments. I am offended by them. They are unwarranted and achieve nothing except stirring up bad feeling. Troll away, though, I won't stop you.

This is exciting - I haven't offended anybody on the internet since... oh, yesterday maybe.

Look, dude - I LIKE MusicMan, both their company and their products. I'm just saying I wish they offered something that I could buy.

Just to be 100% totally, ridiculously clear: MusicMan HAS MY UTMOST RESPECT. Got it?

Now... can we get back to everybody telling me I'm wrong in a reasonable manner?

 

[syciprider]

This is exciting - I haven't offended anybody on the internet since... oh, yesterday maybe.

Look, dude - I LIKE MusicMan, both their company and their products. I'm just saying I wish they offered something that I could buy.

Just to be 100% totally, ridiculously clear: MusicMan HAS MY UTMOST RESPECT. Got it?

Now... can we get back to everybody telling me I'm wrong in a reasonable manner?

No! Screw you! You troll head!

 

[bassmonkey]

I'm just saying I wish they offered something that I could buy.

See, this is the bit I don't get. Why are you saying this? Why have you come to the company website to tell them they are wrong in doing what they are doing? Do you really think anyone cares about your opinion on this? I think I'm right, you are very egocentric. And rude.

 

[Caca de Kick]

I love my passives for what they are, and I love my actives for what they are. I would see no point in having all my various brands of basses exactly the same electronically.

It seems this would be like asking that Les Pauls come with single coils because someone prefers their Strat sounds.

 

[BenjaminStrange]

See, this is the bit I don't get. Why are you saying this? Why have you come to the company website to tell them they are wrong in doing what they are doing? Do you really think anyone cares about your opinion on this? I think I'm right, you are very egocentric. And rude.

Nope - I'm making suggestions. I did say it was to provide constructive criticism, and make them aware of their own market. I post on their own website for their own benefit, whether they take my suggestions or not. Any good business listens to their market, and responds accordingly. It seems to me that MM is one of those companies that listens better than others, which is why I'm making my own tiny voice heard.

Apparently you care very deeply about my opinion - you're the only one getting upset about it. I'm not intending to be rude.

You may be right about one thing, though: I'm very egocentric. I'm totally awesome.

 

[BenjaminStrange]

I love my passives for what they are, and I love my actives for what they are. I would see no point in having all my various brands of basses exactly the same electronically.

It seems this would be like asking that Les Pauls come with single coils because someone prefers their Strat sounds.

But Les Pauls DO come with single coils. They also come with various neck shapes, finish options, body shapes, electronics, etc., etc., etc. But there's more to the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul than just pickups (obviously). It's the whole package. Each offer many, many tweaks on that package, and each sell tons and tons of guitars because of it.

 

[strummer]

Come to think of it, MM does this kind of specialization from time to time, as evidenced by their Dargie Delights. Specialized inlays, finish, labeling, etc. - only to sell a handful of instruments. Yet somehow they saw it as being worthwhile to do.

First, I don't understand the correlation between your wishes (optional passive and log style nack) and the special runs? Sure if GC or the german importer suddenly wants a heap of log-necked instruments, but I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's a long shot.

Now, the passive mode is antother thing, and here is my thought on that: I find it unlikely that Musicman would suddenly launch a purely passive instrument, but as evidenced by the latest preamps they do acknowledge the desire for some to run a bass passive.
And with regards to the Bongo, which you say you'd buy if it came passive, I say just do it! Gutting a Bongo is a simple thing, and as long as you save the parts you can bring it back to active duty if you ever want to sell it. I've played a passive Bongo for a while, and yeah it was ok. less loudness and not fun with long cables, but ok.

cheers

 

[spencer]

True.. Gut the thing and be done with it..

 

[Duarte]

I understand that my perfect neck wouldn't be a marketable option - but having two different neck options for each bass doesn't seem that difficult if they all use the same neck pocket.

They do not use the same neck pockets.

Sterlings have the slimmer, 5 bolt, Stingrays use the 6 bolt...they woudn't fit.

Also, if you ripped out the preamp in a Bongo...I wouldn't go blabbing about it here!

But Les Pauls DO come with single coils. They also come with various neck shapes, finish options, body shapes, electronics, etc., etc., etc. But there's more to the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul than just pickups (obviously). It's the whole package. Each offer many, many tweaks on that package, and each sell tons and tons of guitars because of it.

Both Gibson and Fender are significantly lower build quality to an EBMM. There must be a reason for this...

 

[Bart B]

EB Musicman is a company which you can compare a bit with a fashion label, constantly innovating, following trends (sometimes , offering new fancy options, that makes it expensive ofcourse.

There is a great variety in options, you have the normal necks, SLO specials (sterling neck on stingray), you can buy a 'mere' 2eq stingray..

I think the way you look at musicman is quite down to earth and I really understand your criticism but, All companies do have their own character and choices in what they do and this innovation, fancy electronics,..it's musicman, when you don't like it, you just..shouldn't buy it, that goes for whichever guitar/bass.

Let Big Poppa and the crew make the choices in the company, we're just the bass players here ..and I bet they know more of econmics and marketing thn we do..

still...I think it's good that sometimes some criticism is posted..it keeps everybody sharp

Bart

 

[DrGonzo5150]

But Les Pauls DO come with single coils. They also come with various neck shapes, finish options, body shapes, electronics, etc., etc., etc. But there's more to the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul than just pickups (obviously). It's the whole package. Each offer many, many tweaks on that package, and each sell tons and tons of guitars because of it.

Those that are here regularly know that EBMM offers over 130,000 build options/codes on their instruments... (And just quitely, Gibson offer P90 flat wound single coils, which sound nothing remotely like fender standard single coils.)

In addition to that, EBMM are constantly evolving and work to pioneer devices such as the game changer. The versatility and tones available on the instruments are nuts. In a way, you're asking them to step back and offer a one trick pony... And why? Because you're too tight to pay for a bass that does exactly what you want and more!

If there is a legitimate demand for such a bass, i'm sure they would consider it... And if they do offer this in the future, great for you.

I personally don't believe there would be sufficient demand for such a bass, and know that you can't please every one all the time. Unfortunately, you're probably just one of those people..

 

[Freddels]

I don't see what Benjamin is doing here as trolling. It's really not his style. He's making some observations and trying to put an idea out there for those that can make a change. EBMM recently started making coated strings. I'm sure if someone came on here two years ago and suggested that they would have been met with the same resistance.

I tried the Big Al yesterday and the passive option was wonderful. I really wanted to try the 25th Ann with the Bongo sized neck and the same electronic pkg as the Big Al but I wasn't able to. Next time. I think that now that EBMM has developed the Bongo preamp with all the button options that we might see it in a few more offerings in the future.

Benjamin would probably like the 25th Ann with the passive option and the Bongo neck. He would probably prefer to have the option of not having to pay for the preamp and just get what he wants but that's not really an option at this time. Perhaps, he will become an endorsing artist for EBMM and he'll get a one off bass . . . maybe not. I know he was an endorsing artist for Mesa (not sure if he still is or not) so who knows.

So, suggestions and observations is how new products get developed and EBMM hasn't been one to sit around in the past, they're a forward looking company.

 

[oli@bass]

First of all, I'd like to say that I always welcome a intelligent discussion of available options and ideas for new ones. I am fully aware that we're talking about opinions and that we're only a few customers here, but I think that some of the offerings we recently saw (SLO neck, passive mode, vintage StingRay) had their roots in discussions like this (whether on this board or somewhere else).

I understand that my perfect neck wouldn't be a marketable option - but having two different neck options for each bass doesn't seem that difficult if they all use the same neck pocket.

You're overlooking the most obvious difference: The necks have all different lengths!

StingRay 4: 21 frets (StingRay neck with Sterling neck shape option)
StingRay 5: 22 frets (StingRay neck)
Sterling 4 & 5: 22 frets (Sterling neck)
Big AL: 22 frets (Sterling neck)
25th: 22 frets (Bongo neck shape)
Bongo: 24 frets (Bongo neck)

Eek... lots of negativity regarding P-basses and J-basses here.

I don't think that can be said as a general rule. The guy who owns this place loves them... and let's not forget that MusicMan was founded by Leo Fender as well. EBMM just evolved much more than Fender ever could.

Come to think of it, MM does this kind of specialization from time to time, as evidenced by their Dargie Delights. Specialized inlays, finish, labeling, etc. - only to sell a handful of instruments. Yet somehow they saw it as being worthwhile to do.

Yes, but we're only talking about the finish here. And that already comes with a steep price.

Those that are here regularly know that EBMM offers over 130,000 build options/codes on their instruments...

Mathematically this is incorrect. That's the number of their combinations of options, not of the options themselves. And the codes are made of portions that reflect each option, quite easy to understand. You can always get impressive numbers by combinations. Another example for this would be that for the middle console (the part between the two front seats) of 5 series BMW there exist 38'000 variations. But there's no way that the customer has 38'000 options.

Options themselves aren't that hard to manage, but the sheer amount of combinations can get out of hand if you don't have computer aided assembly. Imagine how many more errors can happen... and that, together with larger numbers of stored parts, will rise the cost of production considerably.

Naturally, I'd love to have more options as well. Who wouldn't. I'd love to have the old style bridge and string through body and ebony board as options to any (StingRay) order, instead of just getting them in certain packages. Hell, I'd most prefer to be able to sit down with Dargin and "design" my perfect personal instrument. Or two. Or three. Or ten. However, when I'm rocking a stage with my beloved white standard StingRay 4 HH, all those possible options and ideas all don't matter! Because it just works!

And I am with spencer that the used market would become quite a mess.

Benjamin would probably like the 25th Ann with the passive option and the Bongo neck. He would probably prefer to have the option of not having to pay for the preamp and just get what he wants but that's not really an option at this time.

I was thinking exactly the same. Except that he might come to like the active mode once he got used to it and tried it. And the 25th will come as a production model, most probably at a lower price.

Or, try to find some cheap EBMMs on the used market and gut them out.

 

[T Alan]

Hmmm...If I were you, I'd just order a Big Al and shift my paradigm to thinking of it as a passive instrument with an active option...rather than the other way around.

 

[T Alan]

...and as for the neck, it is what it is. I own two 'Rays. Think I'd order a Bongo if they offered 6string 'Rays?

 

[koogie2k]

Interesting post and replies.

Benjamin....not sure if there is a Musicman for you to be honest. What YOU are looking for is what works for YOU and that is all that matters. You know what you want just like I know what I want and look for in a bass or guitar.

We can make suggestions till the cows come home. However, with the available options and what not (I don't have exact numbers.....but it is huge) to add to them just makes that process longer. Keep in mind....many of us have been to the guitar factory and have seen the process from beginning to end. Add more and the process has to be added....which can be a pain in the backside for the company.

I have been around here for quite some time....I have seen them come and go. Honestly, I don't think you are trolling and you have been respectful...cool with me.

EVERYONE - keep in mind...Big Poppa and company love choices. That means other companies and their products. Pops uses them as well as many of us.

Now...I did get a chance to play a 25th Anniv. Bass. I loved it...except the neck. Just did not sit right with me. So, I will have to pass on getting one of those. You all know how much of a "Fanboy" I am...haha...but...if I can't be comfortable with any instrument...I simply cannot buy it.

Same thing is happening to Benjamin. He just cannot buy it knowing he will have to do a serious mod on the instrument. I can see his position and respect it.

Anywho.....have a great day!

 

[RocketRalf]

Benjamin, welcome! thanks for coming and showing us what outsiders think in a rational and respectful manner. I don't have much to add to what others said. If you want a passive MM, either get a used one and bypass the preamp, or get a Big AL or a 25th Ann, where you'd still have the EQ at your fingertips with a single button. I'm sure you'd find a use to it if you had it, maybe a solo boost or a slap scoop. Think of it as another pedal in your chain

 

[Big Poppa]

Benjamin

Welcome...and seriously thanks for your comments.

I think the first thing is that you may have disarmed some here because you may assume that your stature in your local market or respect and cred on Talk Bass would instantly carry over here...foreplay may have helped.

Please lets start by not making comments about negative comments regarding p andj basses. I have HUNDREDS of posts praising them and jump to their defense...

Oli...the difference with your coments regarding options is that unlike the bmw I actually have to be able to make all of those and we are a small shop..your view is nice but is not really what we have to be prepared to do.

Benjamin....I'm sorry that there isnt anything on the new or used market that works for you. The first thing when you go past hot shot tech in a local market or internet expert is to understand that the woods are full of very talented and passionate techs that risked their families and friends money because they felt that that translated into a golbal understanding of success. I bristle a little at that. I need you to know that. It is what the artist has to put up with the reviewers. You can critique from a negative standpoint that I dont hit your sweet spot but Ive been slugging it out for over 25 years now and am still standing.

Here is how it goes....opportunity is created when you dont feel the market is being addressed. My dad started it all because Leo didnt believe that slinky strings were viable. Please innovate and introduce what your ideal is...if its valid you will have a happy life with disgruntled customers, greedy attorneys, people ripping you off, accountants......That was a light hearted way of saying be careful what you wish for....there is so much BS that I cannot expect you to know about keeping the wheel running.

I think your basic argument is a little flimsy because the prices of my stuff used is very fair and you can mod it to suit your hearts desire. TO slag the big al and 25th and stuff gets you flamed.

One thing I will tell you. In order to find a home or niche you have to have segment and position that is product driven. Trying to do everything will assure you a new career in hospitality...."Do you want fries with that?"

I wake up every day knowing that I cant make everyone happy...I hope that I can make enough people happy so I can continue to provide for my team and give the world a few extra choices.

 

[five7]

Benjamin, By the way, what bass do you own and play thru your mesa?