- Thread starter TonyEVH5150
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Luc
Well-known member
Saw that guitar before, I thought the former auction stated that this guitar was born being a SUB..
MPM
Well-known member
With genuine PRS strings? 
fbecir
Well-known member
YtseJam92
Well-known member
Not sure if I'm convinced...
It seems too out of place.
It seems too out of place.
GHWelles
Well-known member
Yes the black finish neck is an issue identifying it as a Sub, which is still an EBMM, though. Looks like it has a seventies logo MM neckplate.
But they disclose it is a totally rebuilt guitar. Makes sense, if you are going to toally rebuild the guitar, may as well start with a Sub.
I think you can say that it is a re-built EBMM, which is what they are doing.
Frankly, I would think a real BFR would be a hundred percent better, and would not want to pay the $1,500 they want for that re-built guitar.
But they disclose it is a totally rebuilt guitar. Makes sense, if you are going to toally rebuild the guitar, may as well start with a Sub.
I think you can say that it is a re-built EBMM, which is what they are doing.
Frankly, I would think a real BFR would be a hundred percent better, and would not want to pay the $1,500 they want for that re-built guitar.
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Jack FFR1846
Well-known member
It's very clear that this is a project Sub-1. Clear to me since I've talked with a local luthier to do a very similar thing with mine. Knowing what he'd charge me for a lower end curly maple top.......me using the sub pickups and all electronics.....his price is actually very good. If you're looking for a very light guitar, it's a good way to go (poplar body in the sub). Why he finished the neck is beyond me......and why he left the black paint on the headstock is also beyond me.
jack
jack
bkrumme
Well-known member
It looks like it may have started life as a SUB1, but I don't think anyone could really claim that it's a Music Man any more. It's been modified WAY too much.
Also couldn't be considered "NEW" as the auction states.
It looks nice, but the auction is deceiving...
Also couldn't be considered "NEW" as the auction states.
It looks nice, but the auction is deceiving...
SubMariner61
Active member
Wow...getting caught up on old threads and found this one. You can tell by the join date and number of posts I don't spend too much time surfin'...but always glad to drop by. I purchased this guitar recently; having been the owner of five or six Subs over the years, I fell in love with what the original owner had done with it. The seller, however, was not the original owner. The guitar was completely "recommissioned" if you will... by Sal Tine, owner of "The Guitar Fix" in Oceanside, New York. Sal "rebuilt" the guitar for himself but it wasn't told to me how the second owner came upon it. I'll assume through the normal buy and sell channels. The workmanship is absolutely top notch and any opinion that a BFR guitar would be "100 times" better is sort of a moot point when weighed against the price I paid ($800) for this wonderfully modified Sub. When the guitar was initially offered on eBay, the seller had a buy it now of $1,700 but that was quite optimistic considering its original status as a $600 Sub 1, despite the incredibly flamed koa wood chosen for the retop. Writing of the wood, to be fair, I've never seen any flamed koa EB as bookmatched as this and if it was, I suspect the MAP on it would be incredible. To snatch something like this for eight bills has made me giddy. As for the original auction description, this is a highly modified Sub 1 and I don't think the seller misrepresented the guitar at all. He was quite clear on the work done, in fact, exhaustively so. Can't wait to hear the Redeemer Circuitry...I've heard wonderful things about that little gem.
Minor changes to the instrument on my end will include genuine koa dot inlays that I will be installing over the original dots and I've already ordered two chrome Q-Parts ringo knobs with brown acrylic tops (to more closely match the koa wood) to replace the stock Stratish black knobs. I had a short e-mail exchange with Larry Dimarzio regarding the choice of the Hot Mini and minibuckers and whether or not he could custom wind me replacements but after hearing from him, I've decided to retain them, confident that following his description of them, they will indeed, be a fine pickup for metal tones (not grindcore; rather 80's-90's tones). I currently run my gear through a Rocktron Vendetta so we'll find out soon enough. I like what he did with the neck, going with a poly finish instead of the base black and I love the fact that Sal had Marty Bell keep the back of the headstock black to match the black/koa scheme of the body.
For grins (simply because I have a sense of humor), I had an abalone pineapple decal ordered which I will place at the far end of the headstock (even though technically, pineapples are not indigenous to Hawaii) and will enjoy the rest of the flamed koa sans any other ornamentation or logo. It's not quite like all my other Sub 1s with a new pickguard and changed humbuckers...I think it's safe to say that much but with original flat-topped body and righteous neck, it's still very much a Sub. Owners of BFR's (or other MM's) shouldn't be annoyed to see a Sub 1 with a 5A flamed koa top...mine will never be worth much more than what I paid for it.
There isn't anything additional I would change 'though I wished during the process of applying the new top, a forearm contour was snuck in. Be that as it may, it is a highly modified Music Man and potentially, I'd like to think every bit as good as anything I could buy from MM at 2-3x my own cost. After all, it began as a Music Man and the neck remains stock so the quality control certainly hasn't been lost...if anything, it's been improved. Marty Bell can flat out dime a gloss finish.
Anyway fellas...will post pics once it's received (with the koa dots in place) and will give a more personal report on the guitar itself. Few other EB's lend themselves to mods as much as the Subs and granted...this took it to an entirely different level but in the end...I've always loved koa wood (my first guitar was a BC Rich Eagle Standard purchased in NYC in 1980) and this just spoke to me.
As for the original auction description, this is a highly modified Sub 1 and I don't think the seller misrepresented the guitar at all. He was quite clear on the work done, in fact, exhaustively so. Can't wait to hear the Redeemer Circuitry...I've heard wonderful things about that little gem.Minor changes to the instrument on my end will include genuine koa dot inlays that I will be installing over the original dots and I've already ordered two chrome Q-Parts ringo knobs with brown acrylic tops (to more closely match the koa wood) to replace the stock Stratish black knobs. I had a short e-mail exchange with Larry Dimarzio regarding the choice of the Hot Mini and minibuckers and whether or not he could custom wind me replacements but after hearing from him, I've decided to retain them, confident that following his description of them, they will indeed, be a fine pickup for metal tones (not grindcore; rather 80's-90's tones). I currently run my gear through a Rocktron Vendetta so we'll find out soon enough. I like what he did with the neck, going with a poly finish instead of the base black and I love the fact that Sal had Marty Bell keep the back of the headstock black to match the black/koa scheme of the body.
For grins (simply because I have a sense of humor), I had an abalone pineapple decal ordered which I will place at the far end of the headstock (even though technically, pineapples are not indigenous to Hawaii) and will enjoy the rest of the flamed koa sans any other ornamentation or logo. It's not quite like all my other Sub 1s with a new pickguard and changed humbuckers...I think it's safe to say that much but with original flat-topped body and righteous neck, it's still very much a Sub. Owners of BFR's (or other MM's) shouldn't be annoyed to see a Sub 1 with a 5A flamed koa top...mine will never be worth much more than what I paid for it.
There isn't anything additional I would change 'though I wished during the process of applying the new top, a forearm contour was snuck in. Be that as it may, it is a highly modified Music Man and potentially, I'd like to think every bit as good as anything I could buy from MM at 2-3x my own cost. After all, it began as a Music Man and the neck remains stock so the quality control certainly hasn't been lost...if anything, it's been improved. Marty Bell can flat out dime a gloss finish.
Anyway fellas...will post pics once it's received (with the koa dots in place) and will give a more personal report on the guitar itself. Few other EB's lend themselves to mods as much as the Subs and granted...this took it to an entirely different level but in the end...I've always loved koa wood (my first guitar was a BC Rich Eagle Standard purchased in NYC in 1980) and this just spoke to me.
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Hendog
Well-known member
I have seen that add template before for the same guy selling fake EBMM's.
Not sure what the deal is with those guitars.
Not sure what the deal is with those guitars.
jamminjim
Well-known member
Slingy
Well-known member
I'd love to have my sub done up like that. Looks great.
bkrumme
Well-known member
Nothing wrong with something being modded. And I think it was represented well as a rebuilt EBMM. I just don't agree with the description as a "new" instrument. It's modded and therefore not new.
It does look very good, though. Some high-class modification on that one.
It does look very good, though. Some high-class modification on that one.
SubMariner61
Active member
To be factual, he had tried to sell the guitar several times, first starting out in the $1,700 buy it now area but lots of lookers, no bites. I don't recall this seller ever having other Music Mans. This guitar was a one-off. After a few attempts in the $1,700-range, the seller began to drop the buy it now price progressively downward until I finally e-mailed him last week and explained that Ernie Ball Music Man owners are, rightfully so, fanatical about their guitars...right down to the Sub 1's and that because the Sub's are such a fantastic guitar in their own right...and usually $350-400 pre-owned, selling a modified Sub...even to the degree this one had been upgraded, would not happen at the price he was staging it. He reluctantly agreed. Knowing how much work went into this guitar (I've worked with koa before...finding bookmatched koa like this isn't easy these days...especially one with a slight chevron pattern to it)...I knew $800 was a stupid-low price for it but de-logo'd and completely redone, likely the most he could fetch for it. If he had taken better photos to show off the wood, perhaps he might have gotten $1,000. Hard to say in this economic climate. I once bought a flamed koa guitar off eBay (poor photos), got it home...took better photos...and turned it for a $500 profit. It's all about timing I guess.
Be that as it may, I'd like to think that as far as Sub's go, it really can't get much further modified than this. Hell, I actually thought about removing the rosewood and placing extreme birdseye maple over the neck but decided the expense really wasn't worth it....but who knows? I love to tinker. I love high output humbuckers (having owned X2N's since '79) so I'm a bit nervous about the minibuckers but Larry Dimarzio seems confident I won't be disappointed...especially if I'm using a high gain rig already. We'll see.
Thanks for the comments fellas. One might be put off that the essential "DNA" of the Sub 1 has changed (simplicity in exchange for a boutique look) but I think all the modifications are top notch and certainly don't "bastardize" the Sub 1, which would turn everyone off. What makes these guitars the most underrated of the EB MM line-up is they almost beg to be modified...truly the guitar is the closest thing to the original Charvels I was weened on years ago. These are tinkerers' dreams.
As for it being described as "new," technically speaking, with the same neck, body and hardware, I suppose "new" would be inaccurate but the seller felt, since the guitar hadn't been played for any significant degree of time following all the work, it's "condition" was considered new. Entirely redone body, back of neck, headstock and pickups. I've been assured I won't be disappointed once opening up the MM case it's being sent in so we'll see. I think by and large, the guitar was accurately described as there was little to no connection made to its original lineage and thus, no attempt to sell a Sub 1 for $1,700. In my own perverted world, perhaps I'll consider this my very own "family reserve" Sub?
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paranoid70
Well-known member
